[00:00:21] James: Hello, and welcome back to Books, Cats, and Chaos, the podcast where we explore epic tales, sprinkle in a bit of messed up humor, and embrace the chaos of living with a bunch of cats and trying to read all the books. Uh, my name is James.
[00:00:43] Ka-Ce: Hi, and I’m Ka-Ce, and we are a husband and wife team who love, like you said, all things books, cats, brews, and the chaos that’s in between. We hope everyone has had a great new year so far.
[00:00:58] James: This week, we dive into wyrdmarks, wyrdgates, Ridderaks, oh my. Please join us as we delve into chapters 41 through 46 of Throne of Glass. We are continuing on with our experimentation of our new format of doing a chapter recap, and then doing a deeper dive into some discussion points of things that stood out to us, uh, in the chapters.
[00:01:32] So, We’re hoping to just basically get into the meat of each, each chapter quicker so we can talk about it. Because that’s why we’re all here, right? So we can talk about it. I know that we’re almost to the end of this book, but just as a reminder this is my first time reading this series. So, uh, we are [00:02:00] leaving out everything else.
[00:02:01] No cross discussions from ACOTAR, Crescent City, no, um, theories are fine. If you got theories about what’s going on in the book that we’re reading, and, um, you know, whatever, share it with us. As long as it’s not a definite spoiler, because we don’t want to talk about that. Definitely don’t want to be talking about things from books later on in the series either.
[00:02:27] Like, if you got something from Kingdom of Ash, keep it to yourself. Uh,
[00:02:35] Ka-Ce: I’ve been holding back on sharing a lot of, uh, memes and stuff so far. I’ve been saving everything in a folder, so once you hit certain books, then I could share them with you, because trying to keep you spoiler free as, as much as possible. Um, and I know we have some friends too that haven’t read, uh, Throne of Glass yet, so don’t want to spoil too much for anybody else that is along this journey with you.
[00:03:02] James: It’s true, and what a journey it is.
[00:03:05] Ka-Ce: Mmhmm
[00:03:05] James: I’m telling you right now. There’s some characters, I wanna give some smackdowns to some characters, I’ll tell you what, cause…
[00:03:13] Ka-Ce: Just as a content reminder, this podcast is for adults only. We do cuss and sometimes we cuss a lot. Um, we also do a talk about adult themes. Just if you have little young ones about, maybe save this podcast for later.
[00:03:32] James: don’t wanna be offending anybody or teaching anybody any new words, so, you know. Although honestly, it’s not that bad.
[00:03:40] Ka-Ce: We try not to drop f bombs every other word, but some words do slip in there.
[00:03:47] James: We also don’t use a lot of creative, uh, profanities either. It’s pretty standard stuff, so. Use your discretion. [00:04:00] Uh, if you haven’t already, But you like what you hear so far, please don’t forget to rate, subscribe, or comment on this podcast or one of the multitude of social media channels that we have. You can find all of them linked in the show notes.
[00:04:19] You can find them on our website, bookscatsandchaos.com. Um, yeah, give us a follow on any of them, or all of them. Give us some comments. Send us some messages. Let us know.
[00:04:35] Ka-Ce: We look forward to hearing from you.
[00:04:37] James: We would love to hear from you.
[00:04:40] Ka-Ce: Yes. Alright.
[00:04:43] James: you, uh, you want to take it away?
[00:04:47] Ka-Ce: I will. We’ll start with chapter 41. We start to get some answers from the wyrdmarks and wyrdgates in this chapter. While reading more about wyrdmarks, Celaena is starting to feel a little bad for suspecting Nehemia of nefarious things related to the murders and potentially attacking during the masquerade party.
[00:05:07] Symbols in the book look just like the symbols at the murder sites that she has seen. But alas, you know, uh, Not any definite answers, but there are notes in the margins of the book. Despite being super old, Celaena is able to read these notes. She learns that in order to summon a creature, a Ridderak, she must make a sacrifice and using the victim’s blood, mark the area around it.
[00:05:34] The mark guides the exchange. Flesh of the sacrifice and the beast will grant you the victim’s strength. Celaena searches and searches, but she can’t find anything in the book regarding the wyrdmarks that she found under her bed. But now Celaena has more questions. What is a Ridderak? Where was it summoned from?
[00:05:54] If magic is gone from the world, how are these creatures being summoned? Wyrdmarks apparently [00:06:00] exist outside of magic, and wyrdgates are being used to summon these creatures. Celaena starts to suspect Nehemia again. That was quick. What purpose would Nehemia have of summoning these creatures, and where would she keep them?
[00:06:14] Is it for large scale rebellion? Something large enough to topple the king? And there is another pattern to the champion murders that she’s now seeing. All the murders occur within two days of a test. And of course, there is a test right around the corner. Celaena, not wanting to get murdered in her own room, makes her way down through her secret tunnels.
[00:06:37] This time, at the three way crossroads, she notes fresh footprints in the dust, not hers, and decides to follow them. As she approaches a corridor, she hears a voice speaking rapidly, chanting, but it’s not Nehemia’s voice. No, it’s a man, speaking a guttural and harsh language, something she doesn’t recognize. Peeking around the corner, Celaena discovers Cain, kneeling before darkness so black, it seems poisoned to devour the, er, it seems poised to devour the world. Secret portal! Sorry, I had to.
[00:07:13] James: No, it works. You know what, it’s, uh,
[00:07:17] Ka-Ce: I know that was never part of the thing, but I, I had to throw that in there.
[00:07:21] James: You know what, if Avatar dealt with, uh, with portals, it would have been in there.
[00:07:27] Ka-Ce: Right? I, I kind figured, but. So, were you surprised? I have to ask. Were you surprised to find out that it was Cain? Or Cain’s at least involved somehow?
[00:07:42] James: You know what, uh, I think once we established the whole thing about the offering of the flesh and then you gain the strength of the sacrifice, I was like, oh, that’s Cain. Like, there’s no other reason [00:08:00] he would be bulking up.
[00:08:03] Ka-Ce: So fast
[00:08:04] James: quick. that just, to me, that was, oh, that’s A, that’s B, boom, lock, done.
[00:08:09] Like, at that point, I was just waiting for it, because it’s like, it’s the only thing that makes sense. And especially with his freakout, right, he had in the tunnel before, um, was that last one or the one before? You know, where he was, like, gasping for air and stuff, and, um, you know, we knew the boy wasn’t right.
[00:08:31] Like,
[00:08:32] Ka-Ce: Yeah, something was going on. Something was happening.
[00:08:35] James: So yeah, not a surprise. Um, I did not write Nehemia out of the picture yet, because I did not, I did not see Cain as the mastermind. I see him as the tool.
[00:08:50] Ka-Ce: Okay.
[00:08:52] James: Who’s tool? I don’t know. But I could see where somebody said, Look, here’s a thing, do the thing. And you’ll get powers for the thing. Right? Like,
[00:09:06] Ka-Ce: Yea
[00:09:07] James: That was, yeah, that was the way I kind of was piecing it all together. I did, I know that when I was looking at it, I kind of questioned, so she went down, right, and she saw the extra footprints in the three passages. But during all this time, there were footprints of people, other, whatever, and none of them ever, like, came up and somehow found themselves in her room.
[00:09:35] Ka-Ce: Right?
[00:09:35] James: Like, is that just, like, dumb luck? Or…
[00:09:40] Ka-Ce: maybe Cain was just so focused on his little corridor area? I mean, we don’t know how vast all these passageways and stuff are. Um, we do know that one of the passageways leads to the sewer system. So [00:10:00] you know it’s gotta be big. Um.
[00:10:03] James: Yeah.
[00:10:04] Ka-Ce: But, yeah, it just seems weird that She doesn’t see the footprints before, or now she’s here, and suddenly there’s footprints leading this other way, and
[00:10:16] James: Unless was meant to be the next one. I mean
[00:10:20] Ka-Ce: True.
[00:10:20] James: You know, maybe they were like, we know that she’s around here somewhere, and
[00:10:25] Ka-Ce: So it makes you wonder, too, if her secret passage tunnel that, you know, connected to her room, connected to the other champions rooms. And that’s how, um, they were able to draw them.
[00:10:40] James: Well it had to connect somewhere, because otherwise how did he get in? I Mean… I mean, he could have come up from the sewer, I suppose. But we know that the other passageway went to that overlooking thing, you know, where she could overlook the court. Um, so, yeah, it probably is a much larger networking of tunnels that just wasn’t really explained.
[00:11:04] Um…
[00:11:07] Ka-Ce: But, I mean, I’m just realizing, so hers, you know, we’ve been calling them secret tunnels or secret passageways that lead to Elena’s tomb and the sewers and to the, to the ballroom or, or the passage that looks over the ballroom, but the other champions were actually found in servants, in old servants passageways, so I wonder if they connect or if it’s something totally different. I don’t know. I wish there was more, more something. More meat to this, you know.
[00:11:44] James: it would have liked, like, if there was a revelation where, where she, it didn’t even have to be at this point. Maybe it would have been prior where she was like, man, these tunnels go everywhere in the [00:12:00] castle. Like, no wonder people are getting murdered because there’s a whole network back here. It’s like the secret tunnels at Disneyland, right?
[00:12:07] That the cast members use. They get through the whole park and nobody ever even has to see them. They get on their little trolley carts and just zip from one to the other. And know, is it like that in the castle? I mean, even the castle that we went to in, uh, you know, in Ireland, there was, you know, you could see a fair amount of people going around without ever coming across other people, you know?
[00:12:33] So, and this castle is supposed to be humongous. But again, if it’s made out of glass, nah.
[00:12:43] Ka-Ce: Well, you have to remember that where Celaena and Prince Dorian are staying, they’re part of the stone
[00:12:49] James: No, I know, I just.
[00:12:51] Ka-Ce: But yeah, how do passages work in a glass castle?
[00:12:56] James: Only in the old part.
[00:12:59] Ka-Ce: They’re like, we see you! We see what you’re doing over there.
[00:13:02] James: Yeah, so.
[00:13:05] Ka-Ce: Um, I just made a little note, like, what is a Ridderak? I mean, I know later on it gets described, um. But like as somebody who reads fantasy and has always read fantasy growing up, like you, you learn a lot of different monsters and creatures and stuff and never heard of a Ridderak before. Um, so I thought maybe it might’ve been connected to the gargoyles ’cause I, I still want something to be connected to the dang gargoyles on the watchtower.
[00:13:39] James: Me too
[00:13:39] Ka-Ce: clock tower.
[00:13:40] Um, okay, so that’s good. I thought maybe I was the only one, but, yeah.
[00:13:47] James: I thought maybe the Ritterak was like a flesh embodiment of the gargoyle.
[00:13:55] Ka-Ce: Mm,
[00:13:57] James: At this point, that’s what I was thinking. [00:14:00] I was like, okay, that’s why they said to beware the gargoyle. Cause, and then if Cain’s got a portal and it’s like, yes, I’m bringing the embodiment of, so it’s not like they’re stone and then they turn flesh.
[00:14:11] It’s more like that’s their stone body. And he’s bringing in the flesh body of, you know what I mean?
[00:14:19] Ka-Ce: Of the creature, yeah.
[00:14:21] James: That’s kind of what I was like, Oh, I wonder if that’s, you know.
[00:14:27] Ka-Ce: Yeah, I don’t know, like, I was still hoping for the gargoyle connection, but it was, it was interesting to learn about a new sort of creature, a new sort of demon type thing. Um, I also, I really want to know Cain’s motivation, because I remember at the start of the book, Celaena describes him as a pretty big guy and you know, like one punch from him would knock her out.
[00:14:55] But then over the course of all these chapters, he’s been growing bigger and bigger and bigger, and now we know why. Um, or we suspect why. So what is his motivation? Because it sounds like he could have handled himself, throughout this competition without needing to steal other’s strengths. And
[00:15:16] James: He’s like Bane.
[00:15:21] Ka-Ce: So, yeah.
[00:15:22] I just, I, one of my, like, lingering thoughts, like, it would have been nice to know what his motivation for that was. Was he just wanting to secure his spot as the King’s Champion or was there some other motivation behind it?
[00:15:42] James: Maybe he didn’t have a motivation at all. Maybe he didn’t even have a choice. You know, he, he, um, He’s sponsored by Perrington, right?
[00:15:51] Ka-Ce: Yes.
[00:15:53] James: And we already know that he’s from the wolf, uh, what is it? The white fang..
[00:15:58] Ka-Ce: The White Fang Mountains.
[00:15:59] James: [00:16:00] So we already know that he’s disagreeable, too. So I kind of wonder if he was never even given a choice. Like, they came in and they did the weird voodoo whatever crap to his head, and he’s been lights out, you know, just doing as ordered kind of thing.
[00:16:23] Ka-Ce: Could be. That’s a good, uh, a good way to look at it.
[00:16:27] James: Because, yeah, it just doesn’t seem like there would be motivation for him. I could see a big guy like him being secure enough and being like, look, none of you guys are going to beat me. There’s no way you guys are going to beat me.
[00:16:42] Ka-Ce: Yeah.
[00:16:43] James: And guys like that are not typically ones who go in search of ways to get more.
[00:16:53] You know, because he’s already confident enough in, in his abilities. So doing this seems, from what we know about Cain, seems like it would maybe be out of character for a character with his history, at least the way I kind of look at it. I think I would be willing to bet that he didn’t have a choice.
[00:17:16] Ka-Ce: Okay. Yeah. I can see that. Especially being sponsored. Sponsored maybe. By Perrington.
[00:17:24] James: We know Perrington is bad news, like….
[00:17:26] Ka-Ce: Oh yea (laughs) definitely
[00:17:29] James: And, and Perrington is the kind of person to have multiple, you know, he’s, he’s got the one thing he’s doing with Kaltain. We know that he’s, you know, in league with the king of some sort, right? It’s not unexpected for him to be like, I’m gonna hedge my bets here and make sure that my champion is also basically immortal.
[00:17:51] Like, you know, covering all his bases. I could see Perrington doing that.
[00:17:58] Ka-Ce: All right, [00:18:00] fair enough.
[00:18:02] James: Um, yeah, so of course we just, we just take that and we’re going to roll right into, you know, chapter 42 and of course it’s Cain and he’s getting bigger and bigger, stronger during the competition. The creature, the Ridderak emerges from the portal and is something out of an ancient God’s nightmare. Cain slowly stands, and surprisingly, the creature actually bows to him, which is not the dynamic that we were expecting.
[00:18:39] Ka-Ce: Not at all.
[00:18:40] James: Um, Celaena is surprised to discover that Wyrdmarks work, wyrdgates, are real, which is a conversation I think we’ve had before about her with her knowledge of wyrdgates. Uh, The eye of Elena seems to pulse at her throat, warning her, telling her that she needs to run.
[00:19:03] Cain spots her and tells her it wasn’t supposed to be her tonight, but since she’s already here, he’s not going to waste the opportunity. I’m going to circle back on that one, uh, later. Moving with superhuman speed, Cain grabs Celaena’s makeshift knife. Slams the door shut, traps her in the room with him and the Ritterak.
[00:19:25] The greenish light is coming out of the wyrdmarks on the floor. The Ritterak is pacing back and forth. Uh, the creature likes its victims alive, which is not surprising. And we’ve got some good action going on. There’s a chase, and as Celaena rushes to Elena’s tome, Um, the door is already open, which is weird. She grabs Damaris, the Sword of the Ancient King, before she puts it through the Ridderak’s face. The black blood, um, [00:20:00] sprays on her, the amulet throbs against her, she blinks, she kind of comes back to her senses, and, um, she, you know, starts working through this process of getting herself away from the creature, getting out of the creature’s teeth. Um, and cleaning up, so she cleans up, she cleans the sword with her shirt, puts it back, which I’m not, you know, and, uh, she goes to Elena’s sarcophagus, she gives thanks before making her way back to the room, noting that the wound on her hand is not closing properly, she’s feeling dizzy, her limbs are feeling icy, she’s been poisoned. Uh, she hears Fleetfoot whining, and a female voice cries out. It turns out it’s Nehemia running towards her, reaches her, and carries her to a bathing pool. Once she gets in the water, her hand burns, and she starts just thrashing about. Nehemia recites words the Celaena doesn’t understand, lights in the room pulse, which And, uh, Celaena’s arms are covered in glowing turquoise marks, which are word, uh, wyrdmarks, and then she passes out. So,
[00:21:23] Ka-Ce: of action there
[00:21:24] James: lot going on. there’s a lot going on right there. And, uh, you know, right off, I did have, uh, I did have an initial, initial thought. So, Cain sees her, right, and He says it wasn’t supposed to be her tonight, but since she’s already there, right? So that suggests that there was an order and a plan on which champions were killed and when they were killed, and it [00:22:00] wasn’t necessarily just some random thing.
[00:22:05] Like, there was a plan to pick each one of them off. And, my thought was, is that because when, when they’re killed and sacrificed, like, is Cain just getting bigger? Or is he gaining innate skills that the sacrificed champions had? Like,
[00:22:29] Ka-Ce: Oh, interesting
[00:22:30] James: would he have, like, if he had gotten her, would he have gotten her, you know, swiftness assassin, like, something, right? So, so, maybe this is because I watch too much, like, cartoons and, and, like, the anime stuff, but maybe, like, it’s like leveling up, right? You kill the one champion to get the thing, so that by the next test, you have that skill that helps you get past that one easier, and then you go, oh, the next test, I’ll kill this one.
[00:23:01] So he must have had insider information about what the tests were going to be, maybe,
[00:23:05] Ka-Ce: You think so?
[00:23:07] James: And you know, I’m kind of going off on a, you know, if, if that’s the way that it worked and he was actually gaining not just strength and size but also ability, then he would have to know what ability he would need in order to, like,
[00:23:25] Ka-Ce: Yea for each test
[00:23:27] James: progress easier.
[00:23:27] Ka-Ce: That’s an interesting theory. I wish we would have gotten more. Like, know all we know is that um, that he got their strength, but what is, like, just physical strength? Or, you know, did he, like you say, get their skills, their talents? That would’ve been a great, just discussion, that would’ve been a great knowledge [00:24:00] drop somewhere in the book.
[00:24:02] James: Yeah, it just seemed odd that we woulda said something like what he said, you know, which was It wasn’t supposed to be you but but we’ll we’ll take it, you know
[00:24:13] Ka-Ce: Yea, like not gonna waste the blood
[00:24:16] James: so who was it supposed to be? I mean, there’s only five of them left,
[00:24:21] Ka-Ce: Yea
[00:24:22] James: right? So… Who was on the chopping block that night, that’s what I want to know,
[00:24:28] Ka-Ce: right? Was it gonna be Nox? Was it gonna be, you know, his,
[00:24:33] James: Yeah, it could have been, could have been any of them.
[00:24:36] Um, so, you know, so we’ve got that, and then we’ve got this, this great scene with her, you know, really struggling to stay alive because the Ritterak is not only, I mean, it’s a predator,
[00:24:54] Ka-Ce: yeah.
[00:24:54] James: So it’s big, it’s fast, and apparently it’s got poison. Like,
[00:25:02] Ka-Ce: Of course it does
[00:25:04] James: so, you know, it’s, uh, not a great situation for her, um, I would say she was probably incredibly lucky that this happened in the, in the area that was in the tomb that she had already been to and she knew that there was a sword there. Because otherwise, I don’t, she would not have come out of this. Like, now whether that was guidance from Elena or, you know,
[00:25:44] Ka-Ce: Higher forces.
[00:25:45] James: higher forces, because I mean the door was already open for her. Which, I mean the door’s never locked, but those precious seconds when you have to open a door, you
[00:25:56] Ka-Ce: Oh yea, they eat up time and that could’ve been her downfall right [00:26:00] there. yeah, it was interesting that with no magic in the world. The door was open for her, as if waiting for her.
[00:26:12] James: But now we know that the wyrdmarks and the wyrdgate stuff, they do not apply. Or, magic doesn’t apply to them. They are something else.
[00:26:24] Ka-Ce: Something more.
[00:26:25] James: Something more, something older, or they’re the basis of magic. And so, you can’t banish the, you know what I mean? Like, you can banish the magic, but you can’t really banish the structure of what Makes the magic or you the ability to banish magic like it’s all built on the same platform
[00:26:44] Ka-Ce: Yeah.
[00:26:47] James: So, you know, that’s interesting like Kind of a little little revelation that In a world with no magic there is still something That doesn’t have to follow those rules, and so that gives us an insight to the other things that are happening, and why this threat is so real. Because you’ve got people who are not playing by the same rules.
[00:27:19] Ka-Ce: Yeah.
[00:27:20] James: You know, everybody else is screwed. Um, so yeah, so then we’ve got, uh, you know, she gets poisoned because she gets bit, no, bit? Yeah, she gets bit. I couldn’t remember if she got bit or scratched. So she got bit. She gets poisoned. And You know, she Interestingly enough, when all this is going on, and she’s fighting the Ridderek, Cain just He just nopes out, like
[00:27:53] Ka-Ce: Right? Like, that I, uh, to be honest, that bugged me in that part of the story because you would [00:28:00] think If Cain wants her strength, he would have to be nearby for the Ridderak kill, I would think.
[00:28:08] James: Maybe the summoning is all he needs to do? And then it…
[00:28:12] Ka-Ce: Maybe
[00:28:13] James: When contract is done, suddenly he’s like, Ooh, I’m feeling good. You know, like,
[00:28:18] Ka-Ce: But you would also think that he would want to make sure of the kill. Because otherwise, the person, Celaena, can go and be like, Hey, Chaol, or hey, whoever. Cain is the one behind all of this. Arrest him. You know, like I just was almost murdered. Um, so yeah, it bugged me that Cain was nowhere to be found.
[00:28:45] James: Yeah, I have, you know, the one thought I have on that is that he probably just could not fathom any possibility that she was going to survive this just based on what he has seen this thing do prior. Um, And maybe there’s terms that you have to let the Ridderak make the kill. Maybe if he kills her, he doesn’t get the power.
[00:29:16] Like, contract is I bring you here, you get to kill it, and then whatever. But if I interfere, then it kind of negates the, the whole process there because you’re getting in the way of And maybe if he’s in the way, the thing would turn on him. Who knows? You know, maybe he’s like Good. You’re good. I’m gone, okay. See you later.
[00:29:37] Ka-Ce: It could be. But wouldn’t you also wanna know where she came from? Like how did she discover the secret tunnels, and did she get there? So, like, wouldn’t you want to follow at a discreet distance, let the Riddrak, you know, take care of its business, but also follow to see one, make sure one of them died, [00:30:00] then to see where She had branched off from, and then lo and behold, he has discovered her room and how to get into her room now, like, don’t know, I felt like that whole ball was just dropped and we could have had more.
[00:30:17] James: Right, because, I mean, if, if he had, yeah, you know, stuck around, then Nehemia would not have been able to get her, um, or he could have interfered, I mean, yeah, there’s so many things that he could have done if he had not just disappeared from the scene.
[00:30:39] Ka-Ce: Yeah,
[00:30:40] James: It’s like, literally, he brought the Ridderak in, and he was like, okay, cool, and then,
[00:30:43] Ka-Ce: He peaced out.
[00:30:45] James: just, he was gone. You know, um, which was, yeah, not what I was expecting of, of the character, which kind of makes you kind of wonder that, I don’t think he’s operating with a full deck anymore. I think it’s literally, he gets instructions. It’s like, go do this, boom, boom, boom, and reap the reward kind of thing. Like, and like, yes, okay. You know. Um, I don’t know, it would have been, I want to know where he went, like, or at least why he left, just odd.
[00:31:28] Ka-Ce: I also was bothered that Celaena put the sword back. After finding out, like, what this Ridderak monster thing was, and seeing it, and, you know, barely surviving it, I get that the sword is, like, this ancient, you know, blah blah blah, it should be with, you know, the sarcophagus and all that. I would be like, nah, my survival is first.
[00:31:53] I will find a way to hide it in my room. Or, now is the time to tell Chaol [00:32:00] everything. I’d be like, bitch, you’re either gonna let me have weapons here, or, you know, like, Something. But, I’m keeping the sword.
[00:32:15] James: For now anyway, or put it back later, like,
[00:32:17] Ka-Ce: Yeah, exactly.
[00:32:19] James: When this whole thing is done, then you go, okay, Elena, uh, Gavin,
[00:32:24] Ka-Ce: Here’s your sword back.
[00:32:25] James: You can have it back now, I’m done with it.
[00:32:28] Ka-Ce: And I mean, she doesn’t know where Cain went. She doesn’t know if Cain is hiding in one of the tunnels.
[00:32:34] James: He could have been around the corner! Like,
[00:32:36] Ka-Ce: Exactly! What the hell is she gonna fight him off with? Ladies, keep your swords.
[00:32:43] James: All I can think is maybe she wasn’t thinking clearly because she’s been poisoned. Um,
[00:32:48] Ka-Ce: Yea, and the adrenaline of the fight and she’s just wanting to get back to her room. I get it, but she took the time to clean the sword before putting it away.
[00:32:58] James: True, yea so she’s, she’s trying to get back into her room, right, from the tunnels. She hears, uh, Fleetfoot crying, and then, Um, She hears a female cry out, which is saying, okay, why was Nehemia coming to look for her? And I don’t remember if it, did Nehemia find her in her room or did she find her in the tunnel?
[00:33:28] Ka-Ce: No, in her room.
[00:33:29] James: It was in the room, right?
[00:33:30] Ka-Ce: Yeah, Celaena made it back to her room, because she had, shut Fleetfoot out, and Fleetfoot was trying to get into her room. And so, I think Nehemia opened the door, and then they both saw Celaena had collapsed, and
[00:33:44] James: Right. And so then, yeah, she takes her to the pool. Um, and then, yeah, so So now we find out that, you know, Nehemia is, we’re pretty sure Nehemia is on her [00:34:00] side now because she’s gone out of her way to, to try and heal her, right? Um, and she’s chanting some sort of magic, she’s got, Celaena has wyrdmarks that show up on her arms.
[00:34:13] Um, You know, not a lot of information was given about that. I kind of figured that it was a result of whatever Nehemia was doing. Like,
[00:34:26] Ka-Ce: Part of her chanting or something, just…
[00:34:28] James: Yea, and that it was like a targeted healing spell kind of thing.
[00:34:34] Ka-Ce: Okay. Yeah?
[00:34:35] James: Um,
[00:34:36] Ka-Ce: That makes sense.
[00:34:38] James: because otherwise, I mean, how would they have gotten there? Like, she didn’t have time to put them on her in her sleep, although with all the people who sneak into her room
[00:34:48] Ka-Ce: (laughs) I know, Dorian could have painted all sorts of things on arms and she never would’ve woken up. Maybe it’s a testament to how much she, she trusts Dorian, that she can just stay asleep or stay focused on, you know, playing the piano forte or whatever and never hears her damn bloody hinges.
[00:35:10] James: Yeah, it’s uh, I don’t know. But so we at least know that that Nehemia is not her immediate enemy. She is, um, She is, uh, motivated to keep Celaena, Lillian safe, for some reason.
[00:35:34] Ka-Ce: Yeah,
[00:35:35] James: We don’t exactly know why, yet.
[00:35:38] Ka-Ce: I mean, they’re friends.
[00:35:40] James: Right.
[00:35:40] Ka-Ce: You wanna keep your friends safe.
[00:35:42] James: But was it just dumb chance that she was going to her room that night? I mean, just coincidence, or, you know, something else, I guess is what I’m trying to..
[00:35:57] Ka-Ce: Yea, okay
[00:35:58] James: But we know that she has secrets, [00:36:00] so It kind of feels like she’s been keeping an eye on her, and she realized, somehow, that something was wrong, and so she thought, I better go check on my friend, and then, oh, lo and behold, my friend is dying.
[00:36:16] Ka-Ce: Yea
[00:36:16] James: You know, uh And good thing, too, because Celaena didn’t tell anybody. And Dorian or Chaol would have found her the next morning and they would have been like, What the hell?
[00:36:31] Ka-Ce: She dead! Why she dead?
[00:36:34] James: Yeah, so.
[00:36:35] Ka-Ce: Yea, and they not have known anything because Celaena still refuses to tell anybody her findings or what’s going on, like, she knew that a murder was going to be taking place either that night or the next night. If she knows something’s going on with these wyrdmarks, she could’ve at least left an effing note, right?
[00:36:58] James: Something. For somebody.
[00:37:00] Ka-Ce: Something for somebody before she goes trailing off, you know, into these secret tunnels, and she doesn’t know what she’s gonna find, you know? She doesn’t know what lays with the wyrdmarks or the wyrdgates, I mean, she knows now, but if you don’t know something tell somebody, leave a note, anything because otherwise the murders and stuff are just gonna keep happening. So yeah.
[00:37:29] James: Yeah, you know, it’s um, Sometimes she’s a little frustrating …
[00:37:37] Ka-Ce: A little bit. Love our girl Celaena but yeah she is frustrating.
[00:37:42] James: I don’t remember. Why did she go into the passageway that night?
[00:37:49] Ka-Ce: She did not want to be murdered in her room so she was like, let me go Let me go in the secret tunnels and see if I can find [00:38:00] anything or
[00:38:00] James: Oh, because she had, she had put together that the murders were happening near the tests.
[00:38:06] Ka-Ce: Yes.
[00:38:07] James: And she didn’t, yeah, and she was like, I’m going to go somewhere else. And lo and behold, she, uh,
[00:38:12] Ka-Ce: Yep.
[00:38:13] James: she walked right into that one, didn’t she? Uh,
[00:38:15] Ka-Ce: Of course.
[00:38:18] James: well, thank goodness for Nehemia.
[00:38:22] Ka-Ce: Yes, Nehemia pulled through. Uh, in chapter 43, Celaena comes to, fully healed with some new faint scars. Nehemia demands to know what is going on. Celaena’s worried she missed the test, but finds out she was only out for about three hours. If Nehemia hadn’t had arrived when she did, Celaena would have died within minutes.
[00:38:46] Celaena comes clean and tells Nehemia Lilian isn’t real, she is really Celaena Sardothian. Nehemia doesn’t believe her at first, but then realizes Celaena learned Eyllwe of the peasants from the slaves at Endovier. Celaena tells her that the king knows she is here. And that she is here for his amusement and to be part of this competition.
[00:39:08] If she wins, she has to be the king’s assassin for four years, then her name will be cleared and she will be finally free. Without saying anything, Nehemia’s stare still kinda damns Celaena. Celaena lashes out about this, but Nehemia comes through at the end, as a friend should. She traces a mark on Celaena’s hand and gives Celaena a name.
[00:39:30] Elentiya, the spirit that could not be broken. Celaena proceeds to tell her almost everything else except for Cain and the Riddrak.
[00:39:40] James: You know, two of the, like, most important things.
[00:39:47] Ka-Ce: Why tell her everything else but these two things? Moving on, next morning, Chaol walks Celaena to the training hall. He remarks that she’s awfully quiet. Did she [00:40:00] happen to have a fight with Dorian? Did she enjoy dancing with him? He seems a bit bitter about all of this. Celaena remarks that Chaol is the one that left early and thought he was going to guard her all night.
[00:40:13] He comments he doesn’t need to watch her anymore, and they fall into their easy, teasing banter. She wants to tell him about Cain, but still holds back. If she tells him, she would have to show him the dead creature, the secret tunnels, her possible escape, everything. She couldn’t risk telling him about the unguarded escape route, just in case she needs it for later.
[00:40:39] She decides that she just needs to defeat Cain in the duel and no one will have to know anything about it. She’s already defeated the great evil, right? Right? Before they start their practice, Chaol asks her, Do you know what you’re getting into with Dorian? She wants to know if this is for her sake or for Dorian’s.
[00:40:59] And he is honest and tells her it’s both. They train for an hour before heading back to her room. As they discuss a book she’s reading. They run into the King of Adarlan, dun dun dun!
[00:41:13] James: We haven’t had much, uh, from the king, honestly. Like,
[00:41:18] Ka-Ce: No, a little bit at the beginning but he’s been away doing something.
[00:41:23] James: You kind of get the idea that people kind of forget that he was, you know, like, when he’s there, he also probably just walks around the castle and she hasn’t seen him at all and then all of a sudden it’s like, oh, Oh, shit.
[00:41:42] Ka-Ce: I mean, she’s had like she saw him like her first day there or second day and then he left. It’s easy to forget in, like, that three month span of time of training and testing and everything. And then, [00:42:00] yeah, for him to suddenly be there and to, like, run almost smack into him, that’s, that’s a little jarring.
[00:42:08] James: Yeah, that would throw, that would throw anybody off. But you know, there, you know, I feel like we need to talk about, it’s irritating that… You know, Celaena isn’t really any different from the majority of these characters, right? She’s trying to do whatever she can to survive, get out of the crappy situation that she’s in in her life, and every time she turns around, somebody has given her shit for it. Right? Chaol’s sitting there going, you know, But you’re an assassin and da da da It’s like, yeah, you knew that from the beginning!
[00:42:58] Ka-Ce: Yes!
[00:42:59] James: And then now, she’s telling Nehemia, you know, Uh, this is the deal. I gotta do this thing, and then I can be free. And Nehemia’s like, you would kill for the king? And she’s like, not cause I want to!
[00:43:16] Ka-Ce: I have no other choice.
[00:43:18] James: But the options are kill for the king or go back to the mines and if I go back to the mines I’m not coming back this time, like that’s an impossible choice any person, most any person, is gonna pick the thing that they think is gonna give them their freedom You know, it’s like these people forget and they keep expecting her to be like You know, above all of this?
[00:43:46] And it’s like, no, why, why would she be?
[00:43:50] Ka-Ce: She’s just trying to fight for her survival, for her freedom, and, yeah, I don’t, like, the whole moral high ground of Chaol and Nehemia is just [00:44:00] so bothersome. Even Prince Dorian, who is a prince, seems to accept her for who and what she is, and is like, I wanna, you know, clear the path to have a relationship with you.
[00:44:15] I don’t care that you’re an assassin or that you’re still going to be an assassin. Like, I’ll find a way to make it work. I mean, as unrealistic as that is prince, but you know,
[00:44:27] James: yeah, I mean, she’s probably like the first real person that he’s interacted with. She, I say she has no mask with him. Like she does kind of, but she’s not giving him like a double personality. She is very much like, look. I like candy, I like food, like frilly things, I like books, and I’m also really good at slitting people’s throats when I need to.
[00:44:59] This is me. And he’s like, okay, cool.
[00:45:04] Ka-Ce: I can roll with this
[00:45:05] James: Like thanks for being honest.
[00:45:07] Ka-Ce: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:45:09] James: Which I think is also new to her. She’s kinda like, what’s the catch? And he’s just like, It’s good. You’re fun. I like it.
[00:45:22] Ka-Ce: and she’s able to be herself with him, and she doesn’t have to remain on guard. Like she Still kind of has to do with Chaol.
[00:45:32] James: Yeah. It’s just irritating because, she’s literally no different than any other character in this place. I mean, when you think about it, even at that point, she’s no different than even Lady Kaltain. She’s just trying to find a way, to, to better her situation, and she’s doing whatever she thinks is going to get her there.
[00:45:59] Ka-Ce: [00:46:00] Yeah.
[00:46:00] James: It’s the same exact situation. Just, you know, so,
[00:46:08] Ka-Ce: It still bugs me that she still won’t come clean with Chaol about the murders and her theories and suspicions, you know? He needs to know what’s killing these champions. And now she finally knows. She’s seen it. She’s battled it. Um And I get her struggle because that is her secret way out, like, she could take these tunnels and slip through the sewers and, you know, dart across the kingdom.
[00:46:42] And if she were to tell Chaol everything, she would lose access to that. But at the same time, people have been dying. She almost died.
[00:46:53] James: like, at the same time though, you know, she tells him all that and he can sit there and be like, What do you mean there’s an unguarded tunnel? Like, and then yeah, he could put guards out there or something, but then she could just be like, look bro, I could have been gone on night one, okay? You never even would have known what happened to me, but I didn’t.
[00:47:16] I’m here. At this point, I’m not, if I haven’t left yet, I’m not leaving now, because,
[00:47:24] Ka-Ce: Yeah, she’s so close to the final duel to be the king’s champion, she wants her name publicly cleared.
[00:47:31] James: Yeah, so, I mean, that could be, you know, I could see him being obstinate about it, but I could also see if she was just honest and up front and said, look, I could have been gone, I’m not, and he would be like, yeah, you’re right, like,
[00:47:50] Ka-Ce: Yeah, see, I think Dorian would’ve been like, yeah, you’re right, like, you were a flight risk, but I don’t think you are anymore. I think Chaol would’ve just, with the stick up his butt, [00:48:00] would’ve been like, no, you gotta change rooms, and We’re gonna have post guards in all these tunnels and
[00:48:08] James: he would, even after falling asleep in church with her.
[00:48:11] Ka-Ce: Yeah. That’s, that’s Yeah. Yeah.
[00:48:26] James: Sometimes these characters are, uh, you know, they’re a little irritating with the things that would definitely help them with their progression through these issues and then they withhold the key information and you’re just like, uh. Why? Why would you do this? Why would you do this? anyway, so they go, um, Her and Chaol are, you know, having their conversation, and we’re getting, we’re getting a little bit, uh, more of Chaol apparently being jealous, right, again.
[00:49:10] We’re seeing this, this flare up, um, here and there. Particularly when she’s with Dorian and he’s very much like, did you have a good time? Did you have a good time? She’s like, bro, just, you know, chill.
[00:49:30] Ka-Ce: Like, dude, I asked you to dance first and you said no.
[00:49:34] James: Yeah. Um, but I feel like they’ve kind of, you know, they’re, so as they’re falling into this, you know, back and forth thing, right. Then they come around the corner and there’s the king. And I just imagine they’re coming around the corner, and it’s like one of those situations where it’s like, Oh, you see the king?
[00:49:51] I shouldn’t even be breathing. Like, he’s that kind of figure, right? Um, because you just don’t know if [00:50:00] you breathe too loudly, whether he would be like, Yeah, chopping block for that one.
[00:50:07] Ka-Ce: Yeah.
[00:50:08] James: Right? It’s the kind of, uh, So they both, you know, they, they see the king. They both basically shut up and they’re like, they, they bow as the king goes by and the king seems to be, you know, very focused on her.
[00:50:28] Like she can just feel him like peeling the layers, right? Looking for something, because of course he is back now right after this encounter right with this creature. He, he’s been gone this whole time and Then she finally encounters the creature kills it and all of a sudden the king is like
[00:50:57] Ka-Ce: I’m here.
[00:50:58] James: Something going on here, you know, um, and so we’re really kind of questioning, what does the king know? What is his position in this? Does he know that Cain can open portals? Does he know anything about the wyrdmarks? Does he know that these magical things work, even though magic is banned? And not just banned, but magic doesn’t work. Allegedly. Um, We note that there’s darkness in the king’s eyes, cold and foreign. You know, we’ve heard that before. She could hear the din of war. There’s just a very dangerous aura about him. Sort of an air of death that, that she feels is similar to that void that she saw around Cain. Just
[00:51:54] something otherworldly, but it just reeks of death. [00:52:00] And so Celaena remains silent on their walk back and she sticks closer to Chaol than she normally would and he doesn’t object, right? Um, back in his own chambers, Chaol is pacing. He read the report of the King’s Journey tried to make sense of it. The king arrived alone.
[00:52:28] There were no guards with him. Everyone in his party died. They had gone to the White Fang Mountains, which is where Cain’s from. And, um, yeah, he came, he went with a bunch of dudes, came back by himself. And, and, uh, Cael is looking at this and, and, He knows that there’s a lie buried here somewhere. but it’s not really his place to question it. Because he is, you know, just the guard, captain of the guard. He, the king doesn’t owe him anything. But at the same time, he’s questioning how come the king doesn’t trust him enough to, to tell him what really happened. Because at this point, we’re What, did the king run into an ambush or rebels, you know, or what happened?
[00:53:21] How did the king come back by himself? And we’re assuming fairly unscathed, which is also kind of odd, right? Like, um, he’s reflecting on how Celaena reacted to the king when she was in the same room with him and how she seemed frightened, like a frightened animal. Um, but then he also kind of compares that to how she came from Endovier and how he feels like she’s sort of starting to outpace him.
[00:53:55] Uh, he has become fond of her, but if she [00:54:00] were to become the king’s champion, how could he let her out into the world, you know, again? So, Chaol’s got a lot going on right now. I mean, you know, he’s trying to analyze this whole situation, and multiple, you know, situations. Um, but he’s got stuff he’s gotta focus on. You know, he, he still feels like he’s gotta focus on these murders, even though, I mean, at this point, it’s like, so many of them have happened.
[00:54:39] Ka-Ce: Right? And they’re, they’re near the end. They have a test and then they have to duel and so like, what would even be the point?
[00:54:47] James: Yeah, I just, I don’t, I don’t quite get like, it’s like, I really need to focus on these mur- What the hell have you been doing for the past six weeks, cause,
[00:54:57] Ka-Ce: Right? Like, you haven’t gotten any leeway with any of it.
[00:55:03] James: you certainly haven’t stopped them.
[00:55:05] Ka-Ce: Yeah. Well, no thanks to Celaena, but he doesn’t know that. Um, I,
[00:55:11] James: She coulda solved that problem for him
[00:55:15] Ka-Ce: I found it interesting, um, on the third sentence of this chapter, Celaena notes that each of the little scars on her hand throbbed. You know, she had just gotten bitten by the Ritterak, and so she still has scars from that. And so when she runs into the king, those scars start throbbing.
[00:55:35] Like, I mean, scars tend to throb. You know, like when we get scratched by the cats and stuff. You know, running your hands under water or soap will sometimes sting and stuff, but I just found it interesting that running into the king made those throb out of all things. And we get this sense of darkness from him, and then we got the [00:56:00] Ritterak coming out of this dark portal, and just, you know, similarities with Kaltain’s headaches and throbbing with Perrington’s ring pulsing, so we’re just getting a lot of this interconnections and body pain.
[00:56:21] James: It, it seems almost kind of like, um, being in the, in the presence of this dark, energy, dark power, makes, um, makes you, I don’t, how do I say, like, makes you hyper aware of the pain in your own body, like maybe it magnifies, so, you know, how we were talking in the last episode, where, um, In the greenhouse, Kaltain was having issues with the headache and the throbbing, and it felt like the pulsing of the ring was, right?
[00:57:03] And so we were talking about was, was that something he was doing to her? Or was that something that was just a byproduct of that energy? And I kind of feel like this is the same. She, she has a fresh wound. And so, being in the presence of this dark energy, I feel like it probably just magnifies? Because you know her hands still hurt, probably, right?
[00:57:33] Ka-Ce: Oh yea, definitely.
[00:57:35] James: And so just being in presence of this dark energy, it’s kind of like, Damn, like, you know what I mean? Like, that just, it’s pain, because it’s, it’s a, Like she said, it’s an energy or a sense of a dead something, right? A bad, evil, dark power. So it’s kind of like feeding off of the pain.
[00:57:59] Ka-Ce: Yeah.[00:58:00]
[00:58:00] James: Kind of how I, kind of how I was envisioning.
[00:58:04] Especially with the connection with, you know, Kaltain’s issue from the previous chapters.
[00:58:13] Ka-Ce: Makes sense. I also wanted to note, like, Chaol worrying more about Celaena winning the competition and becoming the King’s Champion, which is something that he’s been helping her train to do this whole time. And now he’s suddenly worried about letting her loose into the world. And yet he doesn’t seem to have any qualms about any of the other would be champions, the murderers, the eye eater, the scythe, Cain, of all people.
[00:58:48] Like, he doesn’t worry about them being set loose in Erilea if they became the king’s champion? It feels just so targeted against Celaena just because she was the greatest assassin. There were other assassins in this competition. Most of them got murdered. But, you know, like, why does he keep just harping on this, like, one thing with her?
[00:59:15] Like, bro, if Cain wins, you’re letting him loose out into the world too. He’s no better. So…
[00:59:24] James: I think, I think that would maybe be a result of, Chaol I think has an issue with accepting the idea that this, that this 18 year old girl is one of the most notorious trained killers in the kingdom. Um, Because when you look at her, that’s not what you see. But when you look at Cain, or you look at Scythe, or any of the other guys, you go, oh yeah, you can tell that dude’s a [01:00:00] dick.
[01:00:00] Like, you know, he’d probably murder his own mother, kind of, right? Then you look at Celaena and you’re like, this, this frilly loving, book reading, drooling in her sleep, like, and I think that he can’t, like, get those two ideas together, that she is a girl with all the things that a normal girl would love and like, on the other hand, you know, she slits throats and she kills, you know, albeit she says just bad people, right?
[01:00:38] Um, but that doesn’t make a difference. She’s still an assassin and maybe he’s worried about… because she has become more of a person and more human to him. If she is the champion and she goes back out, that she’s going to revert to being just the assassin again. And, and she won’t be Celaena, his friend.
[01:01:06] She’ll be, now, the King of Adarlan’s champion assassin. Kinda, I don’t know, like, I can see a struggle with him, like,
[01:01:19] Ka-Ce: Yeah,
[01:01:20] James: Not wanting to lose. all this kind of progress that she’s made into back into a sort of normalcy
[01:01:29] Ka-Ce: I feel like he doesn’t want to lose Lillian. Like he likes Lillian.
[01:01:35] James: yeah that that’s actually very accurate. The lillian persona is the is the court lady frilly loves the books and the exactly yeah and Celaena is the assassin, and, and I think him, he has a struggle with that idea of they’re not two people, they are… [01:02:00] And if she is the champion, Lillian disappears.
[01:02:04] Ka-Ce: yeah, yeah.
[01:02:07] James: You know, so.
[01:02:11] Ka-Ce: All right.
[01:02:14] James: Just my thoughts, you know.
[01:02:17] Ka-Ce: But Chaol is still your boy.
[01:02:19] James: I’m trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. He’s got a to learn.
[01:02:27] Ka-Ce: He’s a good guy, I just struggle with him being a contender romantically. Yeah. So we begin chapter 45 with Nox and Celaena training with swords. Celaena’s a bit off, trying to keep her distance from Cain, wondering if the black ring on his finger is tied to his horrible abilities. Nox notices the bite marks on her hand, and he confronts her about it.
[01:02:57] He knows that she knows something, and she tells him that whatever happened to Verin and Xavier wasn’t an accident, and if he’s smart, he would get out of the castle. And Nox is smart. He knows that she isn’t some jewel thief. And knows that Cain knows that she isn’t either. Nox pieces it all together and knows who she is and that she didn’t just move to Endovier.
[01:03:24] She was a slave there. Putting all these together, he realizes why she can’t just leave or flee like he can. Her choices are back to the mines or being the king’s champion. She tells Nox that there is a creature killing the champions and it’ll probably happen again tonight. Since, it didn’t happen last night.
[01:03:44] As there, um, as there are five champions left. Nox calls her the queen of the underworld and tells her to rip Cain’s head off. He follows her advice and slips out of the castle that night. Meanwhile, Kaltain’s headaches are growing worse. [01:04:00] She was invited to dine with Perrington’s table and she just had to take some opium before attending.
[01:04:07] This poor girl is having a trip on her way. The hallways are bleeding colors. Oranges, red, gold. And, but while she’s trying to make her way down, someone’s approaching her and this girl is seeing shadows leak from this person. And as he approaches, whispers of wings fill the air. Kaltain could have sworn things were swooping past him, hovering, circling.
[01:04:33] Cain bows his head and continues to pass by her. By the time Kaltain reaches Perrington’s table, She has forgotten all about the encounter. Dorian and Celaena play chess, and Celaena notes that he happens to look nothing like his father. She tells him that she happened to run into his dad and was alright, but he tells her that she’s actually trembling. Celaena stalls, hoping to keep Dorian with her as long as possible. She doesn’t want to be alone, especially not with the threat of Cain hovering. But Dorian does eventually leave and Celaena can’t sleep. When she does fall asleep, she dreams of being young, of running, fleeing from a demon. Celaena wakes up with a gasp.
[01:05:20] She made it through the night. Word spread quickly of Nox’s departure and the last test ended up being cancelled due to Nox leaving. There are now four champions remaining. The final duel will take place instead. And it’ll be between Cain, Grave, Renault, and Celaena. So, I’m really happy Nox made it out alive.
[01:05:44] I actually really like Nox.
[01:05:45] James: (laughs) Yeah.
[01:05:47] Ka-Ce: Really happy that he was not involved in the murders, also. Never thought he really was. He didn’t seem to have that kind of character to me. Or personality. Um. But I [01:06:00] was glad he made it out. Him and Pelor.
[01:06:03] James: Yeah, and it was, um, I did, I did like the way he, when he pieced everything together. Cause you get the idea that Nox is pretty smart and, you know, he’s like, okay, Exhibit A, bite marks. Exhibit B, you’re lying about something. And she’s like, look. If I told you, you wouldn’t believe me. And he basically was like, okay, try me.
[01:06:31] Ka-Ce: I believe you
[01:06:32] James: yeah. And, you know, and then she’s just like, you know, yes, I am not this I didn’t move here and dah, dah, dah. And he’s like, well, if you didn’t move, like what else would you be doing in Endo- Oh, and then
[01:06:49] Ka-Ce: You’re her.
[01:06:50] James: And then, yeah, he’s like, would I have heard of you? And she’s like, everybody would. Everybody would hear, you know, if you knew, you would know if you knew and he’s like, oh, yeah, that’s all I need to know.
[01:07:04] Ka-Ce: Yep.
[01:07:05] James: I know exactly who you are. And, uh, and that’s all he needs. Like,
[01:07:11] Ka-Ce: Yeah.
[01:07:12] James: it’s like, that’s her, um, that, you know, that’s the ticket right there. It’s like, oh, yeah. You say, if you. are saying as, mm hmm, to get out of here, consider me out of here.
[01:07:28] Ka-Ce: Yeah. Yeah.
[01:07:31] James: I like that he was smart.
[01:07:32] Ka-Ce: I, I do to. I’m glad that he took her seriously, and didn’t out her, like he could have outed her. Even though Cain already knows who she is, but he could have outed her and he didn’t, and he was like, Thanks for the tip. Peace. Out.
[01:07:49] James: He could have turned that on her. I mean, any of the other champions might have been like, oh, like, like, really? You’re, hmm, you know? [01:08:00] Or if any of the other sponsors knew or know, they could be like what the hell do you mean? You’re putting the greatest assassin against our our arrow thief here What the hell guys?
[01:08:12] Ka-Ce: And the backlash that it would have had on Dorian, too.
[01:08:17] James: Oh Yeah
[01:08:18] Ka-Ce: yeah, that could have just But no, I like Nox. I’m glad that he was her friend, and they became friends.
[01:08:27] James: Nox was a bro
[01:08:29] Ka-Ce: Yes, Um, to me, I don’t know how Kaltain is functioning. I don’t know how she managed to get up and traverse to go down to the hall for dinner.
[01:08:45] When I have my migraines, I am dead. I am in a black room trying to sleep it off like no lights don’t bother me. Never tried opium. Don’t plan on it. So, maybe kind of helps.
[01:09:02] James: I mean she was dealing with bleeding walls so
[01:09:07] Ka-Ce: And, and seeing things swirling around Cain. Like,
[01:09:14] James: Yeah, see that’s interesting to me. I want to know if her being hopped up on the opium opened up her senses to where she was actually seeing this dark energy on Cain or coming out of him
[01:09:30] Ka-Ce: Mm hmm.
[01:09:31] James: or If it was indeed just All in her head, but it just seemed very pointed
[01:09:37] Ka-Ce: It did.
[01:09:37] James: That she saw everything else is bleeding red, orange, gold, and duh duh duh.
[01:09:44] But then she sees Cain, who’s literally like a vacuum of light, right? And it’s like, shadows just emanating from his body. So it’s kind of like, was the opium helping her to see, like, uh, beyond the veil? [01:10:00] Or You know what I mean? Just, I don’t know, just interesting to see.
[01:10:06] Ka-Ce: Visually.
[01:10:07] James: Visually, because it just feels like there was something. She saw something.
[01:10:14] Ka-Ce: And the fact that she doesn’t remember, like, by the time she approached Perrington’s table, she doesn’t remember any of this. So was that part of whatever the hell Cain’s involved in? Or is that part of the opium that’s like, you had a trip, now you don’t remember any of it.
[01:10:33] James: Yeah, right, it could be. I mean,
[01:10:37] Ka-Ce: I kinda feel, I’m kinda leaning towards Perrington has something to do with it. Because, as a person, and you’re seeing stuff like that, like, wouldn’t you freak the fuck out? I would freak the fuck out.
[01:10:53] James: I mean, you would, you would think so. I mean,
[01:10:58] Ka-Ce: I feel like Perrington’s the type that would be like, you have forgotten this, you saw something that you weren’t supposed to, I need you under my control. I can’t have you telling people that you saw,
[01:11:14] James: Dark energy.
[01:11:16] Ka-Ce: Yeah
[01:11:18] James: Yeah, I don’t know. It just, it seemed, Well, I mean, Kaltaine is, she’s not having a good time, so it could have been a combination of, you know, things. I mean, honestly, it sounds like she should not have been, at this dinner.
[01:11:40] Ka-Ce: And to dress up, and do, you know, hair and makeup and all of that and then yeah I have to go and eat with everybody deal with the noise, make small talk, like girl with a migraine… Like, you’ve seen me with my [01:12:00] migraines like I’m like few words. Nope
[01:12:03] James: yea, so, I mean we’ve basically established that Cain is the bad guy. But we still don’t have answers as to, how.
[01:12:17] Ka-Ce: Not yet.
[01:12:20] James: so, I mean, we’ll see. And, yeah, I mean, while all this is going on, you know, Celaena and Dorian are, despite everything, still sort of getting close. You know, even though she’s already herself, Huh?
[01:12:37] Ka-Ce: They’re having their moments.
[01:12:39] James: even though she’s already said, you know, I can’t do this. He’s the prince, whatever, whatever, but they’re, you know, playing chess and There’s some, you know, there’s some flirting going on and and he’s coming in and and he’s doing a little tease You know getting real close to her and what does she do? I saw your dad, you know And he’s like, okay, not, not the, um, how was that? How’d that go? Fine, it was fine. You know, like,
[01:13:18] Ka-Ce: Yeah.
[01:13:19] James: I feel bad for Dorian because he is definitely trying and, and you know that she is not adverse to the idea, but she’s just not going to, let it move forward.
[01:13:35] Ka-Ce: Yeah.
[01:13:35] James: She can’t. Yeah. You know, she is trying to keep Dorian there, because she doesn’t want to be alone. But, she’s not really sure how to keep him there without leading him on. You know, like, I need you to stay, but in a [01:14:00] non-romantic way? Can we do that, please?
[01:14:05] Ka-Ce: And see if she was just honest at the beginning. Like, him and Chaol could have figured something out. You know, or at least if she had just told Dorian, he would have stayed. It could have been platonic.
[01:14:21] James: Yeah, it, it…
[01:14:24] Ka-Ce: but then she, she wouldn’t want to endanger the prince either,
[01:14:28] James: that’s true. Um, yeah, and then, so he does eventually leave, because he has to. Um, and then, of course, she’s got nightmares. She’s not, uh, she’s not gonna be ready for the next day. She, she’s gonna, she’s gonna feel like crap the next day.
[01:14:53] Ka-Ce: She needs therapy. She needs so much therapy for all the trauma she’s been through, starting from, you know, when she was eight.
[01:15:03] James: Yeah, so, so we’ve got, you know, she’s not having a good night. Um, and then we’ve got, as we, as we go, uh, to the next, The next chapter, Dorian is out in the forest on a hunt, because that’s what princes do, right? And he’s thinking about Celaena and just these interactions and everything. He comes across a stag, and he, um, he is preparing to, you know, to fire, but then he doesn’t.
[01:15:42] He loosens, um, or He slacks his bow. Um, and he sort of comes to the realization that he shouldn’t have kissed Celaena. Uh, because now no one else will compare. [01:16:00] Allegedly.
[01:16:02] He couldn’t imagine being with or wanting anyone else. And her final test duel was tomorrow, which means that I’m guessing he was with her, they were playing chess, it was late, and then he left, and so he’s doing some night hunting?
[01:16:19] Ka-Ce: No, it’s the next day.
[01:16:21] James: Is it the next day?
[01:16:24] Ka-Ce: Yeah, it would have to be.
[01:16:26] James: Cuz I thought when they were playing chess that her duel was going to be the next day. Because Nox had left, and so they moved it up a day.
[01:16:40] Ka-Ce: I believe they just cancelled the test, but I don’t think they moved the final duel
[01:16:44] James: oh, okay, so maybe it’s been like a day or two in between.
[01:16:48] Ka-Ce: I think so.
[01:16:48] James: Okay, see, I had it in my head that he, like, left, and then was like, I need to clear my head, and so he went out, like…
[01:16:56] Ka-Ce: I think night hunting would be just a really bad risky thing to do, especially for a prince.
[01:17:03] James: He’s Dorian, when is he not doing something he’s not supposed to be doing?
[01:17:06] Ka-Ce: That is true.
[01:17:07] James: So, anyway, um, so he’s out doing that, reflecting on that, And Celaena is on her balcony overlooking Rifthold. She didn’t want any visitors the night before her final duel. She needs time to reflect and to center on herself. Cain is strong, he has a lot of stamina, but he isn’t as fast as her.
[01:17:35] That she knows of. Um, she never actually sparred with him in practice, so she would have to pretty much dodge him for the first part of their fight, because she does know that one hit from him will be enough to wreck her world. Like, um, thankfully she did do all that running with Chaol. She contemplates what would be better, dying in the duel or returning to Endovier. [01:18:00] I’m thinking dying in the duel.
[01:18:02] Ka-Ce: Uh, me too. I would rather die in the duel than go back to being a slave, knowing full well that this time around you’re not going to survive those salt mines. Like,
[01:18:14] James: No, and then you like what you die of infection or something like
[01:18:18] Ka-Ce: starvation, you could be, you could die from the whippings, like it could be anything at that point.
[01:18:24] James: She’s like I just got my figure back. I don’t want to lose it again
[01:18:29] Ka-Ce: Oh, yeah, exactly. Kill me while I’m pretty.
[01:18:35] James: She’s also like, you know die or become the Kings champion is there really a difference like her life is not gonna be her own because
[01:18:44] Ka-Ce: It’s either die or take lives.
[01:18:47] James: Yeah, she’s asking herself, she’s gonna have to murder the people that he commands her to, to murder. Because at least, and this is surprising, at least with Arobynn she had a say in her jobs, right?
[01:19:00] No kids, no one from Terrasen, nobody innocent, right? Um,
[01:19:09] Ka-Ce: She was able to review, like, the job.
[01:19:13] James: Which, is surprising that Arobynn let her do that. Just, You know? Cause, I mean, he just seems like a major dick.
[01:19:22] Ka-Ce: He is, but he has his reasonings for everything that he does. And she seems to be such a strong headed young woman that I don’t think She, she’s not the type to just blindly follow. I think she would have given Arobynn a hard time and been like, No, I need to know more details about this before I,
[01:19:45] James: yeah.
[01:19:46] Ka-Ce: take a mission.
[01:19:48] James: Um, so yeah. So she’s faced with this thing where it’s basically like, I’ve got four years where my life is not going to be my own. I’m going to have to probably do things that [01:20:00] I don’t want to do, but my freedom, or I could just die, but I don’t really want to die. You know, she wants to stay. She’s made friends, relationships, connections, and, you know, I mean, she’s got Dorian, and Chaol, and Nehemia, and, and these are, connections, like, I mean, other than the connections that she had when she was in the Assassin’s Guild, you know, Sam, but we all, we know that Sam’s not around, and,
[01:20:35] Ka-Ce: Yeah.
[01:20:35] James: Since that point, she hasn’t had any, Connections, because I mean she was in the mines for a year, right? So yeah, she’s not going to want to give that up, I mean who would?
[01:20:52] Ka-Ce: No, she actually has something to live for now. She has relationships and friends and everything and that’s a hard call. I think. I think if it was her being pulled out of the mines and then being faced with I either die in a duel or I’m the king’s champion like right away She might have entertained just dying like fuck it.
[01:21:17] I don’t want to be the king’s puppet. Just kill me now versus three months later Forming these connections getting her strength back and everything. It’s like, Damn it
[01:21:29] James: Yea, if, she had been killed 3 months prior, or faced with that decision I think she would have just opted for the, the death like she would have been like no I don’t want to deal with this but, but now no, that’s not an option Um
[01:21:50] Ka-Ce: our girl has just been through so much and continues to go through so much.
[01:21:56] James: Yeah, it’s um, [01:22:00] I, you know, I was, when I was reading this and,I had noticed that, um, Dorian specifically on his hunting saw a stag and then chose not to shoot the stag and I kind of was wondering if that held a deeper meaning because of the meaning that the stag has to Celaena because the stag has to do with her, with Terrasen right?
[01:22:31] Ka-Ce: Uh, there, yes, I believe the symbol of Terrasen is the stag, you know, like the white stag, but it’s also like the constellation and the lord stag. Like, um, I don’t know if Dorian’s stopped because of Celaena?
[01:22:50] James: No, no I meant for for us like the reader, if it was like symbolic you know of like him choosing not to kill the stag
[01:23:03] Ka-Ce: Oh, for,
[01:23:06] James: Just because he just decided not to, you know? And so,
[01:23:12] Ka-Ce: I think it was significant. I just don’t think his, I don’t think he didn’t do it because of any connection with Terrasen or anything like that, but I think it specifically being a stag is significant because we know what the stag represents for Celaena
[01:23:34] James: yeah, that’s kind of what I was going for, was the symbolism of him, he doesn’t, he has no idea. I don’t think that was for him. I think that was for us to show that he unconsciously, is, is her ally, right? Like,
[01:23:58] Ka-Ce: Yeah,
[01:23:58] James: obviously he wouldn’t, [01:24:00] he wouldn’t know that. Just,
[01:24:03] Ka-Ce: No. Yeah. I think it, it was a good way of representing his and her new relationship and their dynamic and everything. Um, it was very subtle, but yes, if you know Celaena, you know. How much the stag means to her and everything, and the fact that Dorian chose not to go through with that kill. And how it ties him with her and everything.
[01:24:35] James: yeah, he’s gonna try and protect her the best way he can, you know? Um, yeah, I just, I thought it was a, a nice little nod to, you know, the, the interaction between, them on a, higher level of,
[01:24:58] Ka-Ce: Yep. Nope. I agree. I agree. It was a good subtle nod.
[01:25:03] James: And yeah, so that actually pretty much wraps up the chapters 41 through 46. These chapters, compared to some of the other, you know, ones that we’ve done so far, these chapters have all been, um, fairly short, you know, a couple pages, and so they’re, they’re mostly just leading us up to this grand finale of the book,
[01:25:29] Ka-Ce: yep,
[01:25:30] James: because anybody who knows anything about a Sarah J. Maas book knows that apparently the last hundred pages are the pages that just will destroy your world.
[01:25:45] Ka-Ce: yes,
[01:25:46] James: And that’s what we’re getting up to, so Uh, next week We’re doing the final chapters, uh, 47 through 55. It’s the grand finale of the first book, Throne of Glass. [01:26:00] And everything, not everything, most everything is going to be answered, and then there’s going to be a whole bunch of new stuff and new questions, which means that you gotta start the next book.
[01:26:13] Um, except that we’re not going to be starting the next book right away. Because then, We’re going to be doing a special bonus episode where we are reviewing two bonus scenes that one takes place before Throne of Glass and one takes place between Throne of Glass and Crown of Midnight. we will post the links to where you can find those so you can read them and they’re just, they’re just short, um, little, they’re like, uh, they’re like movie stingers, you know, they
[01:26:47] Ka-Ce: Just short little bonus scenes, they’re,
[01:26:50] James: so, um, Yeah, so next week we will finish off the regular chapters and then the week after. Well, actually, no, we’re going to do a bonus episode, so we’ll see what happens after next week. Um, As always, we want to say thank you for joining us this week. We hope that you were entertained. We hope that you You know, enjoyed the conversation and, you know, the insights and things that we saw while we were, while we were reading the book.
[01:27:27] And we’d love to know what things you picked up on. we, did you pick on something that we missed? Do you disagree with something that we thought we saw? You know, let us know. It’d be great to get some other ideas about What is happening here in this kingdom. Cause it’s kind of seems like everything’s going to hell
[01:27:52] Ka-Ce: it usually does at first. So please remember to like, subscribe, and comment. Uh, like we [01:28:00] mentioned before, we are on social media. Facebook, TikTok, Threads, Instagram, YouTube. I think that’s all of them.
[01:28:08] James: For now..
[01:28:11] Ka-Ce: Spotify, Apple Podcasts. Um, if you like what you hear so far, please share with your friends and family.
[01:28:18] Rate, subscribe, those mean the world to us. Um, and as we head out Please, please, please give some love and support to our friends at K911 ResQ. They are a rescue that is devoted to the cats and dogs that often get overlooked because, you know, the seniors, they’re the handicapped, they need the special attention, homeless, strays.
[01:28:43] They have three emergency dogs right now that they have pulled and rescued and they just, they need funding for it and That funding comes from all of us from donations. So if you can head over to their website, we’ll link them in the show notes. Um, we also follow them on our social accounts so you can find them through us.
[01:29:04] Again, K911RESQ, their little logo is an ambulance with two dogs hanging out. It’s really adorable. We love them. And. You know, if you want to help foster, foster fail, adopt, or just make a donation, volunteer, they could use any little bit that helps. Alright,
[01:29:28] James: sounds good, so we will finish up, uh, on the next one.
[01:29:36] Ka-Ce: alright, take care.
