Ep 5: Throne of Glass Ch. 27 – 33

[00:00:21] James: Hello, and welcome back to Books, Cats, and Chaos, the podcast where we explore epic tales, sprinkle in a bit of humor, and embrace the chaos of book loving, and cat herding. I, I am James.

[00:00:40] Ka-Ce: And I am Ka-Ce, and we are a husband and wife team who love all things books, cats, and chaos.

[00:00:49] James: this week we dive into the rich and twisty plot of chapters 27 through 33 of Throne of Glass, where the stakes are high, the alliances are shaky, the secrets darker than a midnight snack attack from your cat. As a reminder, this is my first time reading this series, so there will be no discussing any spoilers from any of the other books series, nothing from the Maasverse and nothing from anything outside of the chapters that we’re actually talking about today.

[00:01:29] So you can listen, worry free, unless you’re reading, you know, Throne of Glass. And if you haven’t gotten up to this point, then we are going to spoil something for you. So the recommendation is you should be at least up to chapters 27 through 33.

[00:01:50] Ka-Ce: Yes,

[00:01:51] James: don’t listen to this.

[00:01:53] Ka-Ce: come back to it

[00:01:54] James: Yeah.

[00:01:55] Ka-Ce: With that, just a content reminder that we are adults who use [00:02:00] adult language. so we will be cursing a little bit here and there, and talking about adult themes and content. So if you have young ones running about, maybe save this podcast for a little later.

[00:02:13] James: Or just pop in your headphones.

[00:02:17] Ka-Ce: Can always do that too.

[00:02:18] James: Although, I guess if you have little ones running around, might not be great to put in noise cancelling headphones.

[00:02:25] Ka-Ce: No.

[00:02:26] James: don’t do that. Don’t listen to me. I don’t know what I’m talking about. as always, also, if you haven’t already but you like what you hear, please visit us on our socials. We’ve got, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube. and a mostly functional website. I say mostly functional and it’s actually pretty functional. We’re just loading it up with content now. you can also find us on Spotify and Apple podcasts if you’d like to subscribe there.

[00:03:08] So, yeah, give us a, give us a rating. give us a subscribe and give us a comment, you know, somewhere so we can, see how you guys feel about it.

[00:03:20] Ka-Ce: Sounds great. Ah, so let’s jump in with our chapter recap before we head into our deep dives. so chapters 27 through 33. Celaena’s obsession with the mysterious clock tower and its Wyrdmarks deepens, despite Nehemia’s warnings to leave them alone. As Yulemas approaches, the winter chill stirs dark memories of Endovier and brings an ominous sense of approaching danger. Meanwhile, Cain maintains his insufferable smugness, ever the perfect villain. We learn that there is a difference between wyrdmarks and wyrdgates. What does it all mean? [00:04:00] Seeking respite from murder investigations and brutal training, Celaena tries her hand at billiards, only to be thoroughly outplayed and mercilessly teased by Dorian.

[00:04:10] Their playful chemistry sparkles, though both harbor secrets beneath their casual banter. The evening ends with an Olympic worthy billiards tantrum and a peace offering of desserts. We love our chocolate cakes.

[00:04:23] James: Mm-hmm

[00:04:25] Ka-Ce: On test day, Celaena abandons her docile facade, while Verin insults her as she strikes with lightning speed and devastating force, leaving onlookers stunned.

[00:04:36] Cain watches and continues his taunts, and Celaena silently vows to win the competition, not just for her freedom, but to crush his arrogance. And surprise! Kaltain is back, and so are her headaches. Kaltain seems to be cozying up with the queen. As Chaol drives Celaena’s training to new intensities, the relationship crackles with unspoken tension.

[00:04:59] Another castle murder leads Celaena to disturbing evidence, connecting the killings to the wyrdmarks. With each passing day, Cain’s menacing presence grows more threatening. Dorian’s hound had mutt-puppers, and Celaena teases him, dogs or women. Dorian and Celaena also seem to be growing closer while Chaol observes some shadowy darkness coming from Perrington. Rounding this out with chapters 31 through 33, Elena appears with a cryptic message, look to your right. The warning’s meaning becomes clear during Celaena’s poison identification test. Thanks to Peylor’s help and Elena’s advice, she narrowly escapes a fatal mistake. The chapter balances nerve wracking tension with moments of shared relief. A tender moment between Celaena and Nehemia strengthens their friendship into one of the story’s emotional cornerstones. Though Dorian’s charm continues to pierce Celaena’s defenses, her past and [00:06:00] pride keep her walls high. Meanwhile, Cain’s behavior grows increasingly monstrous, perhaps literally, and Kaltain Rompier orchestrates her schemes through a haze of opium, manipulating Duke Perrington as she plots Lady Lillian, aka Celaena’s, downfall to clear her path to Prince Dorian.

[00:06:19] Her machinations pale against Nehemia’s devastating news. The massacre of 500 Eyllwe rebels, including children, a brutal reminder of Adarlan’s tyranny.

[00:06:30] James: that sounds like a lot, you know, it, it, this, this episode is going to be packed with a lot of stuff. We got intrigue, tension, emotional moments. They’re going to leave you guessing about what’s coming next. You know, how does Celaena juggle ancient mysteries, political themes, a growing bond with Dorian, can Nehemia carry the weight of her people’s suffering, remain strong, you know, um, the girl’s got secrets, you know, we don’t know what’s going on with her.

[00:07:03] And of course, the. The biggest question right now is what the hell is up with Cain? Like this dude, I mean, when we get into it, but the weirdness with this dude is just weird. so as we get ready to do our, our deep dive here, we’re going to dive into everything. So we’re gonna. Maybe we’ll have some cat chaos along the way.

[00:07:30] I see one of our cats is actually sleeping right now. but yeah, if you’ve got your own cat, you know, grab a Grab a drink, grab your cat, cozy up, and let’s get into it. so we’re going to start with chapter 27 and you know, in this chapter, we’ve got, Celaena’s curiosity is, is getting the better of her.

[00:07:58] And I feel like, you know, she really [00:08:00] was trying not to be curious about things because she didn’t want to get involved, but she can’t help it. She’s gotta know what’s going on. So, you know, her curiosity is, is unfortunately bringing more questions than answers. Nehemia is turning out to be a really good friend, but also sort of a frustrating source of, confusion.

[00:08:27] and, you know, we’ve got, it’s winter, and the wintertime is bringing back some not so great, memories. We open up with Celaena doing the things. Celaena actually kind of reminds me of a cat a little bit in this bit because she’s just can’t let this go. She’s staring at the clock tower. Again, it’s dark, foreboding, it manages to absorb sunlight, you know, like a sponge, and you know, these gargoyles, what’s up with the gargoyles?

[00:09:03] Elena called them guardians, but guardians of what? You know, they don’t do anything, they’re not alive, are they? and you know, it doesn’t help that Elena is being, you know, very vague about like everything she comes in and she’s like, you’re the hero. You need to be the hero and save us. And then Celaena’s like, from what?

[00:09:29] And she’s like, Oh, secrets, you know,

[00:09:32] Ka-Ce: The evil within the castle.

[00:09:35] James: like, you know, she’s dropping breadcrumbs, like some cryptic, Hansel and Gretel fairy tale story. Why can’t. Why can’t she just tell her what’s going on? Like it would help everybody.

[00:09:53] Ka-Ce: Yeah,

[00:09:54] James: this to me brings up the question, does the hero always have to go through this journey of self [00:10:00] discovery? Like, can’t somebody just come out and just say, look, right now we’re at A, you need to get to B.

[00:10:08] And this is what B is, okay? Boom, boom.

[00:10:12] Ka-Ce: I think if they were to do that, the person would look at that and be like, Oh, hell no. And be like, I don’t want this. Find somebody else for this task. And I feel like right now, Celaena would be at that point. All she wants is her freedom. Anything else is just extra, like, nonsense that she does not want to handle right now.

[00:10:38] And I don’t think mentally she could handle it,

[00:10:42] James: Yeah, I suppose.

[00:10:44] Ka-Ce: but it would make this story a lot shorter, a lot faster.

[00:10:47] James: I mean, it would make it, well, I don’t know if, well, yeah, it would make it a bit shorter, because there wouldn’t be a lot of the back and forth. but it would make the hero’s journey a little bit easier, I think. You know, just not as, well, I guess that’s why it’s called the hero’s journey, right?

[00:11:04] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:11:06] James: so we have, the, the Wyrdmarks are etched around the tower.

[00:11:10] So, of course, that’s another layer of mystery, because we still don’t know what they are, we don’t know what they do, if they do anything, other than there’s some ancient, Language, none of them match, what she saw at the murder scene, but there’s something. So we just, you know, keep that in mind that there is going to be something somewhere.

[00:11:40] Ka-Ce: Mm

[00:11:41] James: At this point, you know, who knows what it is. then we have the lovely Nehemia.

[00:11:47] and first thing she does when she comes in is she straight up just gets on Celaena’s case about her obsession with these ugly things, these gargoyles that are just stone [00:12:00] and, and just kind of monstrous looking, um. She’s like, you know, why do you, why are you looking at these things so much?

[00:12:13] and she, this is where you can really tell that, that they do have a friendship that is really growing because the way that she talks to her, right, she comes in and this is like just peak bestie energy. And she just looks at her and she’s like, they’re made of stone, Lillian. Like she has to remind her friend that they’re, that they’re stone.

[00:12:41] Right.

[00:12:43] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:12:46] James: but then of course we get a little bit of a notice that here is did, did her accent, you know, did it get a little better that that’s what’s going on here, right? She hasn’t had that many lessons. so Nehemia is, you know, she’s not going to let it go. She, she tells her nothing good is going to come of it.

[00:13:09] That’s really all she’s saying about it. And when she’s pressed for more information, she’s dodging. The questions and she’s apparently, she knows enough to, you know, give a warning, but she doesn’t know enough to say why.

[00:13:30] Ka-Ce: Mm hmm. It’s definitely suspicious, like, she knows enough about the Wyrdmarks, like you said, to give a warning, but won’t explain why. And for somebody like Celaena, like, she has to know the why. Like she’s not going to take that lying down. And for us readers, it’s also definitely suspicious. Like we know Nehemia knows something and we don’t know what.

[00:13:56] James: Yeah, she’s, she’s acting very, suspicious [00:14:00] and. It, you know, I was looking at this, little exchange in this part of the book in the chapter, and I was just like, I really, I want to trust her. I really want to trust Nehemia. She’s a good friend, supposedly, but I’m gonna be so pissed if she turns out that she turns around and backstabs

[00:14:20] Ka-Ce: Right. After everything Celaena’s been through, she needs a good friend. She needs somebody not associated with her assassinating past. And. the political stuff. I mean, she’s a princess. There’s, there is that politics, but she just needs somebody on her side. And I feel like Nehemia is that for her right now. But now that we know that Nehemia knows about the wyrdmarks and isn’t being completely truthful. Yeah. It shines her in this suspicious light. And I agree when I was reading this, I was like, please don’t, please don’t backstab our queen. Like, come on.

[00:15:00] James: Also, please don’t be the one who’s eating the insides of people. I was a little worried about that too. Honestly,

[00:15:09] Ka-Ce: Oh, really?

[00:15:10] James: Hmm, is it going to be, I don’t know, just,

[00:15:14] Ka-Ce: the unsuspecting ones.

[00:15:16] James: well, that’s the whole thing. It’s always the one that you let into your inner circle

[00:15:20] Ka-Ce: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:15:21] James: and then they turn around and they want to eat your face and the, you know, so, um, so they’ve kind of got this, you know, it, you can tell that it’s a, It’s a light hearted kind of banter on the surface with very serious undertones, which is not escaping Celaena, because, I mean, she’s an assassin.

[00:15:47] She, her whole life is picking up on stuff like this, right? so they’re continuing through the courtyard. The winter weather is coming in full force, and it’s [00:16:00] triggering flashbacks for Celaena from her time in Endovier. Of course, when she was in the mines, she didn’t have warm clothes and shelter and protection.

[00:16:13] She had to suffer through the cold and she noticed, it brings to her attention that she is, while she’s not in an ideal spot right now, she’s in a better spot right now, but the change is not, it’s not lost on her.

[00:16:30] Ka-Ce: hmm.

[00:16:33] James: she’s lucky and she knows she’s lucky, but how long is this luck, uh, going to last, especially with the way the king is?

[00:16:43] I mean, this dude could change his mind any day.

[00:16:46] Ka-Ce: All right.

[00:16:47] James: I mean, I, I really,

[00:16:48] Ka-Ce: could be sent back

[00:16:49] James: yeah, I mean,

[00:16:50] Ka-Ce: at a moment’s notice.

[00:16:52] James: Yeah, and so she’s got this in the back of her head that, you know, that right now she’s warm, she’s bundled up, she’s not in the mines anymore, although, again, PTSD for this poor girl, but she knows also not to get too comfortable.

[00:17:13] Because this could also be just taken away from her in a moment’s notice. So, you know, we get a good look at the, just kind of the damage that, that she’s gone through.

[00:17:28] Ka-Ce: Mm hmm.

[00:17:28] James: Nehemia invites Celaena to Eyllwe. She says, you know, they got great blistering summer heat. Celaena tells us that she’d love to see it, but she can’t really, go into it a whole bunch because she’s not Celaena.

[00:17:45] She’s Lillian. so I just imagine that conversation’s like, Oh, if you don’t like the cold, you can come over here when it’s summer. And she’s like, Oh yeah, summer. That sounds great. I’ve been to summer, you know, not knowing anything [00:18:00] about her whole time in the desert and, you know, just all this other stuff.

[00:18:06] Ka-Ce: goes back to that, they have this friendship, this budding friendship, and it’s great to see, but we’re, we’re also seeing that they’re both holding secrets from each other, and they can’t be 100 percent honest with each other, and it’s also putting a strain on their friendship.

[00:18:25] James: Yeah. And, and, you know, the secrets just, they’re not, they’re not stopping, unfortunately.

[00:18:31] Ka-Ce: No.

[00:18:33] James: you know, as they’re walking through the courtyard, Celaena catches her, catches Nehemia looking at her brow. And she kind of says, you know, Oh yeah, like we’ll do the Eyllwe thing, like, cool. the focus so much on her brow. As a reader makes you really wonder, like, why is she staring at her forehead so much?

[00:18:59] Like, what is the purpose of this? Because then it gives you an idea that, that she really maybe does know a lot more than she’s letting on about a number of different things.

[00:19:16] And then of course, to get on this, Nehemia also wants to know all about the murder. Like, this girl just wants to know everything about what’s going on in this castle. I do know that,

[00:19:34] Ka-Ce: I’m gonna backtrack you a little bit, I think, too, Maybe just me as a reader,

[00:19:38] the fact that Nehemia is looking again at her brow is so close to the other chapters where Elena, her statue on the sarcophagus, had the wyrdmark etching on her brow. I was reading it and I was trying to pull connections, whether there is one or not, between Elena and [00:20:00] Celaena.

[00:20:01] I didn’t know if you had any suspicions or thoughts on that as well? Or if that was just me trying to read too much into things.

[00:20:10] I

[00:20:10] James: do know that I hadn’t caught it the first time. You know I caught it the second time that there was more of a focus on on the, the wyrdmark that was on the brow, and then yeah, when, with the, with Nehemia, you know, also focusing on her brow, it was kind of like, is there, is there something going on here? Or, or is she just like

[00:20:35] Ka-Ce: Oh, weirdo.

[00:20:36] James: weird? Yeah. Like, cause you know, you don’t want to read too much into what’s going on, but then you also don’t want to miss out on the clues.

[00:20:47] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:20:48] James: yeah, it’s too early to really tell, but there was definitely something, you know, that was noteworthy at that point. Hey, Fagan.. okay, so the way that that I was, was looking at this was that Nehemia was probably picking up on the fact that, that Celaena was starting to. To notice that she was acting a little too insistent, you know, about these things, the wyrdmarks and, the, just all of it. So, so she switches the focus to the murder, because what’s a better change in subject than nice grizzly murder, right?

[00:21:43] Ka-Ce: It is a very hot topic.

[00:21:45] James: most princesses or just royals in general don’t care about that stuff. Proper ladies, I mean, could you imagine if any of the other ladies, Kaltain or any of them coming [00:22:00] up and being like, Hey, tell me about the body. Like,

[00:22:05] Ka-Ce: It wouldn’t happen. It’s not talk for polite society.

[00:22:08] James: and I imagine that’s just what Nehemia is like. She’s just kind of like sidles up next to her. And she’s like, so. Tell me about the body. Is it gross? Like, you know, um, and of course, Celaena’s like, okay, weirdo, but you know, so she tells her and Nehemia is like, okay, that’s pretty graphic. She starts to kind of, you know, physically look a little ill, um, with the details.

[00:22:41] Um, but she still wants to know more. She wants to know just all of the details about the body. as they’re talking, they’re rounding through, I’m imagining they’re, they’re rounding through the garden and they come up to the clock tower and who do they run into but our man, mystery man of the hour, Mr. Cain. followed by Verin and they’re looking and they’re like, somehow Cain looks beefier. Like what is up with this dude? Is he just packing in protein or like, cause he was already a big dude. so is it a trick of the light? Is it just, you know, Celaena, is she tired?

[00:23:37] Is she just not, you know, mentally ready for the next, you know, what is it? Is he actually bigger? he taunts the two women, Nehemia, you know, tries to reign Celaena in, but Celaena, of course, is not one to back down from any provocation at all. And, of course, she’s [00:24:00] wondering, you know, why is he back here again at the tower?

[00:24:05] And we’re seeing now, it’s not just Celaena who is drawn to this tower. Like, other, other characters also keep finding themselves here. And why? Why is it? and then we get to kind of a, a big reveal here where Cain taunts her and then he lets her know that he knows who she is. and, and that was a big deal, I think, for Celaena because, because now she’s no longer Lillian.

[00:24:41] She’s Celaena. You know, she’s got to keep this facade up for her friend.

[00:24:48] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:24:49] James: So this puts her in a not great spot, really. You know, it’s just, what is, what is Cain’s deal? Like, he’s obviously being fed information from somewhere, right? So, I mean, you know, what’s the deal? Is, is what I was think questioning.

[00:25:17] Ka-Ce: And why bring it up now of all things? Like what is his angle? he’s known this whole time. Why not bring it up sooner? Or was he? waiting to see how far she would get in the competition.

[00:25:33] James: And did he, did he know at the beginning or did he find out halfway?

[00:25:38] Ka-Ce: Oh, that’s a good question.

[00:25:41] James: Right? Like, and actually I don’t think that that was covered. Yeah, I don’t remember. You know. make a difference.

[00:25:54] Ka-Ce: Yeah. Um, yeah, no, this was, this was a [00:26:00] surprise moment for me with him coming out and admitting that he, he knows who she really is. And knows about her time in Endovier and everything. That’s, like, sometimes you would see that, like, at the very end. Like, he would reveal that at, you know, the last final test or something, just to get under her skin.

[00:26:22] But no, he’s revealing it now. So what is his purpose for doing so now?

[00:26:28] James: hmm. And I mean, they still got a couple to go, like,

[00:26:33] Ka-Ce: Yeah, they still have several weeks.

[00:26:35] James: yeah. So was it like he, he found out and he just couldn’t help himself or,

[00:26:42] Ka-Ce: It could be.

[00:26:43] James: you know, I mean, I don’t know that was, but that was definitely a, cause again, I wasn’t not expecting his character to be, This conniving,

[00:26:57] Ka-Ce: No, I, when we were first introduced to him at the beginning. I thought he was going to be more brutish, um, like all brawn, no brain, but no, he’s definitely a contender in all ways, not just physical strength, but he can. think and use tactics. And

[00:27:18] James: that’s the worst kind of enemy.

[00:27:21] Ka-Ce: it really is.

[00:27:23] James: So, so we’ve got him, he’s taunting her and you know, he, he drops this bombshell on her and Celaena desperately is just wanting to wreck his world. Right. And she can’t because she’s supposed to be Lillian and she’s just desperately hoping that Nehemia is not able to really understand what he’s saying well enough to put things together.

[00:27:54] Um, you know, is that going to work in her favor? You know, we don’t know. We’re going to [00:28:00] find out. She does manage to control herself. and then her and Nehemia end up leaving because she just, she can’t risk it. And of course, then she’s going to get, you know, in trouble with Chaol again and you know, she taunts him and stuff, but she doesn’t want to be in trouble.

[00:28:20] I mean, she’s got too many things to accomplish. And honestly, at this point, she’s got a fair amount of freedom to kind of wander around. She doesn’t need extra eyes and security on her. because she lashed out, so, you know, I can imagine as an assassin, walking away from that was probably one of the hardest things that she had to do.

[00:28:46] Ka-Ce: Oh definitely, and she’s, been itching for, you know, this whole half of the book to put Chaol, or not Chaol, to put Cain in his place. And now that she knows that he knows who she really is, that’s just like, The icing on the cake, like just sneeze wrong in my direction and I will gut you right here right now.

[00:29:09] James: you know, she wants to, so instead she, she acts as a very proper lady and tells him to shove it in his ass and, and then they leave. Um, you know, but, but this whole thing brought up a very interesting question and point of, you know, there is something happening to Cain. He’s involved in something, you know, is the clock tower doing something to enhance his strength?

[00:29:39] Is somebody controlling him? Um, I was torn, really, with the idea that it was either him, Or, or, um, like Duke Perrington was like doing something like feeding him drugs or something. You [00:30:00] know

[00:30:00] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:30:00] James: just to like, be like, you know, you’re, you’re a good, strong, like, we need to make sure that you’re the winner kind of thing, you know, here’s a little something on the side.

[00:30:13] Um, yeah, just trying to figure out, you know, what’s going on really. Uh, cause, you know, Cause the boy, the boy ain’t right. Something going on. Um, of course, you know, all of this is going on and we’ve got Chaol and Dorian are up in the mezzanine in the shadows. They’re watching Celaena train. Chaol is hoping that by having Dorian watch that he’ll understand that she’s a threat.

[00:30:43] and that he will stop flirting unnecessarily with her. Um, it doesn’t work.

[00:30:54] Ka-Ce: Boy loves danger.

[00:30:56] James: Dorian is a, is a, yeah, he’s a sucker for punishment. And he has no, uh, I wouldn’t say he has no sense of self preservation. But it is lacking a little bit.

[00:31:11] Ka-Ce: I like to think that Dorian likes a challenge and there is no challenge with court ladies and Celaena is a challenge and she, there’s something tempting about something being dangerous.

[00:31:29] James: I mean, she’s an assassin.

[00:31:34] Ka-Ce: But she’s more than just an assassin, and I feel like he’s the only one that sees that.

[00:31:41] James: Well, yeah, I mean, he, he does see the, the, the woman beneath the killer, whereas Chaol is right now only seeing, mostly seeing the killer. Dorian does notice that she’s gotten stronger and he thanks [00:32:00] Chaol for, you know, training her, helping to get her where she is because she has made a vast improvement from when they took her out of the mines.

[00:32:10] Um, he wants to know if Chaol thinks that she can beat Cain. At this point, I don’t think anybody can beat Cain. Like, I just imagine him as this big, massive, you know, hunk of meat, like. You don’t want to get hit by this guy, right? Um, Chaol says, you know, she’s, she’s still got to learn how to control her rage, um, but she’s doing really good in her training, you know, if she keeps it up, she will do a good chance.

[00:32:48] But a one on one fight would be, you know, iffy. I mean, at this point, I don’t know if Chaol even thinks that he could take him on. Like, he would never admit that, but, you know.

[00:33:02] Ka-Ce: No, no he wouldn’t.

[00:33:04] James: Um, then we see yet another character comes in. Nox decides to come in, and Dorian is surprised that she’s managed to make another friend.

[00:33:17] Because Selene is just friends with everybody, apparently. Uh, and he tells Chaol, you know, it’s fine. Let it happen. He could be a good ally. Basically, I think at this point he’s looking at it and saying, This dude’s not a threat. Don’t, don’t lose sleep over this guy. Um, but Chaol thinks that, you know, there might be A little bit of jealousy here, you know, why, why, I guess, would Dorian feel the need to be jealous of another champion that’s come into, you know, Celaena’s, uh, kind of like, I guess her [00:34:00] inner circle.

[00:34:03] Ka-Ce: I mean, I think Nox is more privy to her day to day, whereas Dorian only gets to see her, like, here and there, for short periods of time, you know, depending on his flexibility with his schedule versus her training schedule and everything, whereas Nox, Gets to see her all day, every day, and gets to train with her and everything.

[00:34:26] So I could see where Dorian would get a bit jealous with that. Cause he doesn’t, he doesn’t get that with her.

[00:34:33] James: Yeah. Well, and, and maybe to just the whole idea of him being somebody else that she’s so casual with.

[00:34:41] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:34:42] James: even though they do have their banter. I don’t get the feeling that she is super casual with him yet. Um, I mean, he’s the prince, right? So she can’t be super casual, but there’s still a wall, right?

[00:35:00] That, that, um, they just haven’t managed to get passed yet.

[00:35:08] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:35:09] James: Um, but then, you know, Dorian also just has a problem when he wants a thing and he doesn’t get it right away, you know, or the thing he’s working towards, somebody else gets it first or, you know, so, um, but that’s what best friends are for. Chaol says he notices and Dorian ignores it.

[00:35:33] Why not, right?

[00:35:38] Ka-Ce: Mm hmm.

[00:35:39] James: Um, so, you know, several days go by. We find Celaena, she’s researching the Wyrdmarks. She’s trying to find just, you know, anything that she can around the tower and, uh, Xavier’s murder scene. she’s not having a whole lot of luck because [00:36:00] there’s just not a lot of information left about this stuff.

[00:36:03] Um, most of it, you know, it’s been destroyed or lost or just, you know, gone. Chaol’s with her reading his own novel and being generally very just, he’s there, but he’s very, uh, um, not helping at all.

[00:36:24] Ka-Ce: Well, I mean, to his credit, she hasn’t told him what she’s researching. I don’t think so. He just thinks that she’s there to read and do whatever.

[00:36:38] James: she’s just doing book stuff.

[00:36:40] Ka-Ce: Yeah,

[00:36:41] James: Um, she has not mentioned her run in with Cain and Verin. And she’s also not said anything to him about the fact that Cain knows who she is and Chaol, there’s too many C names here and, Chaol, I thought would have been the one person that she would have gone to and said, not even Dorian, but uh, Chaol might like a bro.

[00:37:08] Dude, like, he knows what’s up. Like, how do we

[00:37:14] Ka-Ce: Handle this? Yeah, like, uh, I’m torn, because she’s so used to doing things on her own, so I can see why she held back on this information, and what is Chaol gonna do? He can’t kick Cain out of the competition for knowing who she really is, you know? So, telling him wouldn’t really change anything, but he, Chaol is also supposed to be on her side, so she should have confided in him, too, just so that he is made aware of the situation, you know, and then they could re-strategize [00:38:00] what she needs to do moving forward in order to win.

[00:38:03] James: Yeah, it was an odd choice for her to keep that to herself. Um, and I was not actually, I wasn’t expecting her to go that route. Just, I figured she would want at least one person besides herself to know, what was going on. cause I mean, if, if she just disappears one night, Nobody’s gonna know why but at least if she had told somebody they could be like, hmm, I bet it was Cain you know Anyway, so she’s researching and you know, she hasn’t figured out a whole bunch of stuff about them So far, we know that the Wyrdmarks are around the clock tower. They were at the murder site, they’re also in Elena’s tomb And that’s, you know, kind of as far as, as she’s figured out, right. Are they a language?

[00:39:03] Um, one of her books said that they were probably an alphabet maybe. Um, but then another book says, you know, they weren’t really like grammar related. They were just a bunch of things kind of put together and strung together. And so she’s not really finding a whole lot of consistent, information that can lead her.

[00:39:29] On a set path, which I get, that’s annoying. Celaena tells Chaol that some books claim that Wyrd is, you know, this force that holds life, I guess, together. You know, everything, it’s, it’s like the law of The world, um, Chaol says that he thought Wyrd was an old term for fate or [00:40:00] destiny,

[00:40:00] Ka-Ce: So no real concrete knowledge on Wyrd or Wyrdmarks or Wyrdgates.

[00:40:06] James: Yeah, exactly. You know, there’s at this point, there’s just, you know, just things all over the place and, and it’s not helping her. She’s not finding anything to help ease this. Um, you know, she’s got this thing in the back of her head that says that, these things are something, whether they’re bad news or whether it’s just, uh, um, you know, coincidence that they happen to be used during, the murder, you know, I mean, for all she knows, it could be a calling card, you know, like, maybe the person just liked the way it looked and they just wrote it in the blood.

[00:40:51] That’s the thing is she doesn’t know. And nothing that she’s looking at is giving her anything to weigh her in one way or another. then we learned that the Wyrdgates are different than the Wyrdmarks, right? gates are both real and invisible. Humans can’t see them, but they can be summoned and used, or accessed using the Wyrdmarks.

[00:41:22] They open up into other realms, good and bad, and other creatures, good and bad. Can come through them. Um, so, you know, that’s a little more, uh, at least a little more description on possible usage.

[00:41:44] Ka-Ce: I, um, so doing this reread and the deep dive and, you know, putting together our show notes and everything, something struck out at me. Um, so we’re made to believe that up till this point, Celaena doesn’t know what wyrdmarks or Wyrdgates are. [00:42:00] Um, and that’s why, she’s researching all of this, especially, trying to find a connection with, with this murder that happened.

[00:42:07] Um, But if we go back to chapter three, um, to the second, the second to the last line of the chapter states, Yes, she would go to Rifthold, to anywhere, even through the Gates of the Wyrd and into hell itself if it meant freedom. Um, And yet, you know, we’re told at the end of this chapter that she’s never heard of Wyrdgates before. I just don’t know if this is like a continuity error, or if Gates of the Wyrd and Wyrdgates are like two separate, um, so that was just my,

[00:42:54] James: Or maybe it was just a different way to say the same thing.

[00:42:58] Ka-Ce: uh, maybe, um, or maybe it’s just one of those, like, sayings that people say, like, I’d rather go through the Gates of the Wyrd versus. Doing this thing, you know, or

[00:43:12] James: Yeah, it’s one of those things that um, people have said, probably said it for so long that nobody really even remembers what the original saying was.

[00:43:25] Ka-Ce: yeah, it could be, I just, it, it, it was bothering me and I had to go back and look it up and be like, wait, I thought she knew what this was. And then now she doesn’t, but oh, okay, we’ll, we’ll, we’ll roll with it right now.

[00:43:41] James: I did not catch that actually, um, yeah, I completely just,

[00:43:49] Ka-Ce: Yeah, I didn’t catch it the first time I read the book, but when you picked up the book and then we decided to do these deep dives and everything, I was like, no, wait a minute.[00:44:00]

[00:44:04] James: you know, it’s a, it’s a, it’s worth noting, you know, you just, who knows. see. so Celaena reaches for another book and it’s a book that she doesn’t remember picking up off the shelf. And the book is black. And like many of the things in this story. When you have contact with something that is black, um, you need to pay attention.

[00:44:39] We have the obsidian eyes, the black ring the Cain wears, a black clock tower, and now we have a mysterious black bound book called The Walking Dead.

[00:44:55] Ka-Ce: This seems like so up your alley.

[00:44:57] James: Even if you didn’t have any of the other things, and she just managed to pick up a book called The Walking Dead, that right there would be enough to make you be like, Mm, what? Something, something, something. Uh, so the first thing that she notices is that the book reeks. It kind of smells like, um, Soil, right?

[00:45:26] So she opens it. She scans it for for Wyrdmarks, Wyrdgates, but instead she finds it’s just basically an illustration of a half decayed face grinning at her with the flesh falling from its bones and With a title like The Walking Dead, you know that that tracks

[00:45:48] And it’s enough to make her take a minute and it gets under her skin. And how is this book not been burned when they burned all the other books? Because clearly this book does not [00:46:00] belong here. and in more specifically, I mean, how had any of the books mentioning the Wyrdmarks and stuff not been burned? Cause you got the idea that they were very thorough

[00:46:13] Ka-Ce: You’re right. Like the king was very adamant about no magic anything. burn it all. So how did these survive?

[00:46:23] James: Yeah. So, so rightfully so she’s a little weirded out by this. Um, and she says, yeah, I’m not dealing with this right now. So she closes the book and she shoves it away. And. Pretty much at that exact moment, she hears a groan and Chaol doesn’t react and she’s like nothing and he’s just like, what, like, you hearing things?

[00:46:53] Cause there’s nothing here. Um, so she reaches for the book again, she goes past the illustration and she tries to read up on The things, you know, the descriptions and the monsters and stuff. And then she hears scraping noises coming from somewhere beneath her feet. And it’s really close. And, you know, she is, you got to remember she’s an assassin.

[00:47:19] So she’s going to pick up on this stuff and. And it was enough to make her think, you know, like, shit, am I in danger? Like, um, because whatever it was, it feels like it’s right there. the hair on her arms is up and she’s waiting and she’s waiting. And then Chaol comes out of the nowhere and he’s like, Oh yeah, I was dragging my dagger on the floor.

[00:47:46] Like,

[00:47:48] Ka-Ce: Fucking Chaol. Like, what the fuck?

[00:47:52] James: if you ever wanted to just punch a dude

[00:47:56] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:47:56] James: Right there.

[00:47:57] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:47:58] James: And, and you know, me, [00:48:00] I, I love my boy Chaol, but I, at that point, me, even I was like, Hmm, bro, bro,

[00:48:08] Ka-Ce: That’s fucked up. Especially knowing, like, with the murders and everything, like, he doesn’t know that it, this could potentially be some sort of creature, right? But even with the murders, like, don’t be messing around like that. That ain’t right.

[00:48:24] James: yeah, it’s really, what did, what did I say last time? Oh, that was, he was being a dick. Um, so Celaena says, you know what? Screw this. She grabs two big books, not the Walking Dead,

[00:48:44] Ka-Ce: Nope.

[00:48:44] James: she leaves the library because she’s just had enough of this shit. She’s like, I’m so done with you right now.

[00:48:50] Ka-Ce: Yup.

[00:48:53] James: Um. You know, and this really kind of set the pace for the change in, um, this chapter set the pace or not set the pace changed the pace for kind of things that we’re now discovering, you know, in the story as we’re moving forward, because we’ve got, you know, more secrets, more, you know, um, I don’t want to call them prophecies, but, you know, just, um, the hero’s journey, Kind of stuff, you know, and, and we’re no longer talking about a person who’s just competing to fight and win her freedom, the arena for everything has gotten just so much bigger.

[00:49:47] Ka-Ce: Stakes are higher.

[00:49:48] James: you know, and we’re seeing the relationships evolve between the characters and it’s going to, you know, be good as we, as we move forward and through this. Um, [00:50:00] but there was a, there was a lot of, of. You know, it’s chapter 27, but I feel like we kind of got another like setup

[00:50:11] Ka-Ce: Mm

[00:50:11] James: for the story. Like, you know, you had your setup in chapters one, two, three, whatever.

[00:50:16] And then now we’re to this point and it’s like, now I need to drop all this new knowledge on you.

[00:50:23] Ka-Ce: A new knowledge without answering any questions that anybody has, like there’s something fishy about this clock tower and the gargoyles and Nehemia is a bit suspicious, but Cain keeps growing bigger and bigger and bigger. What the hell? And what’s up with these Wyrdmarks? And what is Wyrdgates? And people are still being murdered.

[00:50:49] So like, we’re getting more stuff, but we’re getting more questions and not enough answers.

[00:50:55] James: And this ghost lady is not helpful.

[00:50:57] Ka-Ce: Yes. Well, the non ghost, ghost lday

[00:51:01] ghost lady

[00:51:03] James: Well yea, the not ghost, ghost lady.

[00:51:06] It’s nice, though, because we, you know, we go from this chapter that’s just got all of this mystery and kind of high. If you got high blood pressure, this is not the chapter for you as a char, know, as a character. So then we get to move into something a little more fun, right? Um, a nice break from murder and mayhem.

[00:51:33] Ka-Ce: Yes. We move into chapter 28, where Celaena is grappling with the with a cue stick, trading sharp quips with Dorian and revealing some hidden layers of vulnerability. don’t get too comfortable, there’s still plenty of intrigue beneath the surface. Uh, so, we, the chapter opens and Celaena’s attempting to teach herself how to play pool, a game that’s clearly [00:52:00] testing her patience.

[00:52:01] Same girl. Same. Watching her jab wildly at the cue ball, she misses entirely and throws a mini tantrum, even biting down on the cue stick. which is totally relatable because I suck at this game.

[00:52:14] James: She could be related to you, honestly.

[00:52:17] Ka-Ce: I mean, yes, because I’m such a deadly assassin. but yeah, who hasn’t tried learning something or doing something and then spiral into frustration when it doesn’t click? Uh, Celaena’s determined to master this ridiculous game. Though the declaration to burn the table for firewood and use it to roast Cain alive is just Yes.

[00:52:45] James: Yeah.

[00:52:47] Ka-Ce: Oh, go ahead.

[00:52:48] James: Oh, I was just going to say like, as a person who is good at a lot of things, but not great at any one thing, get where she’s coming from.

[00:53:01] Ka-Ce: You say that, and you are good at pool, and I’ve played against you since, what, high school, and I suck.

[00:53:09] James: Okay. But I mean, pool is one of those things that I actually like spend a fair amount of time. Well, not anymore, but, but I get coming up to something. And being like, Oh, that looks interesting or fun or whatever. I can do that. And then doing it and not immediately being fantastic at it. And then it’s like, yeah, I won’t do this anymore.

[00:53:32] This is stupid.

[00:53:36] Ka-Ce: I think it’s also, like, an ADHD thing, too. Like, or maybe it’s a millennial first child thing. Like, we have to be able to do it and do it well the first time. Otherwise, like, there’s no interest in it.

[00:53:55] James: Yeah, no, I get, and I, I get that. And it’s, [00:54:00] um,

[00:54:01] Ka-Ce: I can overthink something and prep as much as I want and if it still does not turn out right the first time, it’s not, it’s not worth

[00:54:10] James: yeah, no, I don’t want to do it anymore.

[00:54:13] Ka-Ce: No.

[00:54:14] James: Um, but you know, this opens up a kind of another question is why is she so focused on this particular thing? Like, you know, Is it because she’s a perfectionist, or is it because the girl is just stressed out and she wanted something fun to do, and the fact that she’s not immediately perfect at it, or you know, whatever, so it’s like, ugh, another thing that I can’t control, like.

[00:54:46] Ka-Ce: I think it could be both. I think, you know, we’ve learned so far that if she is not first, if she is not the best at something, she was beaten until she was the first, first place person or she, you know, did win or she mastered it. So she’s had that beaten into her since she was eight. She’s had that perfectionist mindset.

[00:55:10] Since she was eight. We don’t really know how she was before she was eight. Um, so yeah, for her to sit back and truly enjoy something without having to be a master at it right away. I don’t think she gets a lot of those moments, um, which is very unfortunate.

[00:55:33] James: yeah, that could be frustrating. Um, she just wants to relax, let off some steam.

[00:55:39] Ka-Ce: Yeah,

[00:55:39] James: Um, and of course, you know, that that’s not her, uh, that’s not in the cards for her tonight.

[00:55:49] Ka-Ce: no,

[00:55:51] James: Her, her favorite person is, you know,

[00:55:54] Ka-Ce: You know, for such a great assassin, she keeps getting snuck up on by [00:56:00] Dorian. He Has been sitting here watching her throw her temper tantrum and, you know, sucking at playing this game. Um, and he startles her, you know, and he’s grinning like a cat who founds, who has found cream. And he immediately goes into teasing her and getting under her skin, you know, telling her for the world’s greatest assassin, this is pathetic. And, and she glares back at him, you know,

[00:56:29] James: daggers

[00:56:30] Ka-Ce: like the fuck boy. Yes, their banter is playful, filled with a sharp kind of humor that feels like sparring with words. Uh, Dorian offers to teach her because he’s a gentleman.

[00:56:46] James: Mmm hmm

[00:56:47] And the old, let me stand behind you and guide your hands trick unfolds,

[00:56:52] Oldest trick in the book

[00:56:53] mmm hmm

[00:56:55]

[00:56:55] Ka-Ce: It’s classic, it’s shameless, and yet Dorian is clearly enjoying himself a little too much. And when he looks over, he also notices that Celaena is also a little red,

[00:57:06] but she does threaten him and, you know, to replace his eyes with the billard balls, if he tries anything else.

[00:57:14] So, do you think Dorian’s interest in Celaena is purely playful or is he testing the waters for something deeper

[00:57:22] James: Oh, I 100 percent felt like he was trying to see like, if it was worth going out on a limb, uh, yeah, I think he’s entranced by her because as we’ve talked about before, he can’t get her. Well, A, he can’t get her out of his head, and B, he’s discovered that he can get under her skin?

[00:57:47] But that’s about it.

[00:57:49] Ka-Ce: She won’t give him much

[00:57:50] James: No, he can’t. She’s not a court lady. He can’t get under her skirt. He can’t, you know, he can’t worm his way into her bed. [00:58:00] And, and I think he’s both, annoyed by that, but also like, this is, this is the game. Like, you know what I mean? And, and I do, I think he’s, right now he’s bordering between two, two things, he is intrigued by her and he’s wanting to learn more, get to know her, you know, all this, stuff, but he’s also, like you said, he’s, I think he’s testing the waters a little bit, like, if I, if I just push this, you know, a little bit, could I, Could she, could we, you know, um, and you know, she does, she responds and says, I’m going to replace your eyeballs if you’re not careful.

[00:58:47] And we don’t even have Bill there to, to take care of his eyes. You know, when, uh,

[00:58:54] Ka-Ce: Right.

[00:58:55] James: damn it, Bill, why’d you have to go and die? I need an eye eater saga, man.

[00:59:03] Ka-Ce: we do need a separate, like, short story about Bill the Eye Eater,

[00:59:07] James: Right. Sarah, if you ever. Yeah. Ever listened to this at some point. We, we need a standalone Bill the Eye Eater. Just short story. That’s it. That’s all we need. Something.

[00:59:21] Ka-Ce: maybe, like, how he got caught, like, maybe it was at the end of a murder and he’s eating the eyeballs and he got caught and he was sent and, you know, to Endovier, or not Endovier, he was sent to the other one. And then he was propositioned to come be a champion.

[00:59:40] James: I would love it. I would love it if it wasn’t actually eyeballs. But like, if he was eating something else and somebody just happened to see it wrong. And then he ended up getting this, this nickname and he’s just like, Oh, What? No.

[00:59:56] Ka-Ce: I don’t eat eyeballs. Like, maybe he plucks them out, but he doesn’t actually [01:00:00] eat them.

[01:00:00] James: Yeah.

[01:00:01] Ka-Ce: Or, or somebody, like you said, saw it wrong, and so then he’s had to start taking the eyeballs out.

[01:00:07] James: He’s like, damn it. I don’t know. I need, I need more. But anyway, sorry. Digress. That, uh.

[01:00:15] Ka-Ce: So, you know, they After much bantering and teasing, dare I say flirting, Dorian shows her how to correctly handle the stick, the cue stick, and dares her to a game. But again, how does he keep managing to sneak into her room when she is one, the greatest assassin, and two, she did something to the hinges of the doors so that they would squeal? Anyways,

[01:00:46] James: Did he come in with a WD 40 and fix them while she was gone?

[01:00:51] Ka-Ce: You know, maybe, maybe Philippa is just like, what the hell is up with these doors? And, and, you

[01:00:57] James: I could see that. Actually. like, we just fixed these.

[01:01:02] Ka-Ce: what the hell

[01:01:02] What the hell? As the Billiard’s lesson spirals into actual games, the pair spends hours in the gaming room. Celaena’s stubborn streak shines as she refuses to let Dorian’s inevitable wins dampen her spirits. In fact, it’s the opposite. Every hit she lands becomes a reason to shamelessly brag.

[01:01:23] I do the same. Inbetween shots, they dig into an array of desserts, including a large piece of chocolate cake -yes- that Celaena devours before stealing half of Dorian’s.

[01:01:35] James: accurate.

[01:01:36] Ka-Ce: yeah, this entire scene is a rare slice of normalcy in her otherwise chaotic life. The laughter, the teasing, the shared vulnerability feel like a moment frozen in time.

[01:01:48] And, you know, they’re able to speak of books, history, politics, even theater. Dorian offers to make a backtrack. Dorian makes an offhand [01:02:00] promise to take Celaena to a play after the competition. The brief awkward silence that follows is loaded with unspoken tension. Is this just a flirtatious offer, or is Dorian trying to envision a future for them?

[01:02:12] One that doesn’t involve deadly competitions and political schemes. And does Celaena believe a future like this is possible for her? Questions, questions.

[01:02:24] James: a, that’s a loaded one. Cause

[01:02:27] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:02:28] James: yeah, that’s

[01:02:32] Ka-Ce: As the night winds down, Celaena and Dorian find themselves by the fire, legs dangling off armchairs. Their conversation takes a quieter, more introspective turn as Dorian asks what she’s thinking. Celaena’s answer, she’s musing on whether the champions murdered are intentional. She tries to ask this, you know, casually, but the undercurrent of fear is unmistakable.

[01:02:57] You know, the mystery of the killer looms heavy on her thoughts

[01:03:01] he doesn’t believe they are. And he tries to let her know that, you know, that they’ve been posting more guards around her, so she has nothing to fear. But she has fallen asleep in her chair. You know, we come to learn that Dorian wants to know more about her.

[01:03:19] He wants to know everything that is.

[01:03:22] To be known about

[01:03:23] But, to me, that is so different than Chaol. Cause everytime like, Celaena tries to open up about herself to Chaol, he shuts her down.

[01:03:31] Versus Dorian, who’s wanting to know more about her, and he’s trying to ask these questions. And she has this wall up with him. Whether that’s because she feels more vulnerable with him, or because he’s the prince. Those are,

[01:03:49] James: Yeah, that’s a, that’s a good question because you, you wouldn’t, well, I don’t know if you would necessarily think it would be more [01:04:00] one way or the other because you know, uh, yeah, Chaol is a guard, you know, he’s soldier type of person. and I think I did kind of, I originally kind of figured that they would open up to to each other, more easily because they’re both in positions of protector/fighting and she would have more in common, you know, whereas you have Dorian, the prince who He’s lived his whole life in the court, like, but maybe it’s that difference that is the catalyst for, you know, because he’s not a killer and he’s not a warrior and he’s not a,

[01:04:50] Ka-Ce: yeah.

[01:04:50] James: you know, so it can go either way.

[01:04:53] Like, I can see it. Uh, I can see it working either way, honestly.

[01:04:59] Ka-Ce: Yeah, um, so she, she’s fast asleep. He, he rouses her and helps her to bed where she just collapses. He blows out the candles, gathered up his books that he had loaned her and tells her goodnight, Celaena, addressing her for the first time by her name. And as he’s leaving, he notices a necklace at the hollow of her throat, and he realizes it looks familiar somehow, like he’s seen it before, but he can’t place where.

[01:05:33] And this is the necklace that the not ghost ghost Elena had given her. The amulet. So as he leaves, he wonders if Celaena did become his father’s champion. Would she change? Was all of this a facade? And he really hoped not. He couldn’t imagine that she was pretending with him. So there were, there were two [01:06:00] things there, you know, one, how does he recognize Elena’s amulet?

[01:06:07] James: Sort of,

[01:06:08] Ka-Ce: Sort of. He admits that it looks familiar, but doesn’t know where. Um, And, and yeah, it does. Is Celaena pretending with him or is she being her real self with him?

[01:06:26] James: you know, it’s hard to say because she has spent her whole life being on guard. Um, now I, I do feel that she is her personality and the way she acts and everything. I think that is her, that’s genuine. Um, You know, she’s just the, the way she is unapologetic. And if you don’t like it, then, you know, screw you and I don’t care kind of deal.

[01:06:59] Right. Um, so I don’t, I don’t feel like her character is so complicated that she’s like got two personality, not personalities, but you know what I mean? Like two faces. I think she is the way that she presents herself. Um, You know, but I, I can see Dorian also looking at it and he does have to think about stuff like that, is this person really, who they say they are and, but then he also has a one up that he knows that he knows who she really is.

[01:07:46] Everyone else thinks that she’s Lillian. So, there’s a lot of crisscrossing of going on here with, You know, people who know like different things and their positions and where they are and how much can you really [01:08:00] hide from the person that like drug you out of the mines and, you know, like, so I do, I do think that while I don’t necessarily think that she could ever fully let her guard down, I think that.

[01:08:20] I think that some of it can and will come down. but it’s not unique to her. I don’t think many people would let all of their guard down, you know, I mean. They’re just not in a position to do that inside of a castle. Just, you don’t. You just don’t do that inside of a castle.

[01:08:45] Ka-Ce: You can’t, it’s, it’s not safe, you know, with all the politics and everything that goes on.

[01:08:56] James: And, and, and would Dorian even be prepared for that if, if she did somehow? I mean, she’s, She’s a complex woman and right now he’s only seeing a very small part of, you know, her, he knows, he knows that she likes to read and he knows that she’s good at, you know, fighting and, and things, but he doesn’t know anything of her tortured past.

[01:09:24] He doesn’t know. you know, really any of the real details of the assassin years. so is she still just a challenge at this point? Not, not just a challenge, but you know what I mean? Like she’s, she’s not a court lady and she is intellectually, way more on the level with him, you know, but is that, does that just feed into like the ideal fantasy he’s seeing, like what he wants to see from her or, [01:10:00] or is, uh, or is he really looking at the whole picture?

[01:10:03] Like, I really like her, you know, I think there could be something going on here. Um, we just don’t know where Dorian’s really at, you know, at this point,

[01:10:15] Ka-Ce: Yeah,

[01:10:17] James: but it is nice to see the. The dynamic of them. changing and growing. So we’ll see, you know, they got some more growing to do.

[01:10:33] Ka-Ce: they do.

[01:10:38] James: Um, so yeah, so Dorian takes this stuff, they leave, he leaves and we open up the, the next chapter, back basically, uh, back in the action, right. We’ve had this little reprieve. She had a fun night, game night, blew off some steam. Um, And then the next day, there’s a tense scene in the training hall as the champions are preparing for their next test, an actual sparring match, like we’re getting some action, like, you know, no more bows and arrows and no more crawling up walls.

[01:11:23] Ka-Ce: We’re getting some hand on hand.

[01:11:25] James: Um, and, and so the, the. The rule is if they win then they don’t have to worry about being eliminated. That’s fair, right? If you lose then you have to face Brullo and whoever performed the worst in fighting him is the one who gets sent home.

[01:11:47] Ka-Ce: I don’t think they had to fight Brullo. They just had to. Like face him, like face his judgment.

[01:11:53] James: Oh, oh, see I took that as they had to like fight against him, [01:12:00] but okay, maybe I read that wrong.

[01:12:02] Ka-Ce: Like you lost to your sparring partner. Now you have to face the weapons master, but no, I believe they just, whoever lost the sparring match had to face judgment with Brullo and whoever performed the worst was the one that was sent home.

[01:12:20] James: I mean I guess that would make sense too.

[01:12:23] Ka-Ce: The other has more action though.

[01:12:24] James: I mean, yeah, that’s just, that was the way I, I was like, cause I was like, Oh, that would suck. You, you fight, you’ll lose. And then you got to fight this guy and you know, you’re going to lose.

[01:12:33] Ka-Ce: But imagine though, like, how many champions there are and then you have that Brullo would have to fight you know, like, six of them seven of them. He would get tired.

[01:12:47] James: Yeah.

[01:12:48] Ka-Ce: he’s older.

[01:12:49] James: Yeah. But how many of those could he one shot? Like

[01:12:53] Ka-Ce: True.

[01:12:54] James: they’re going to be like, Oh, you lost obviously. And then you go to Brullo and he’s just like, toss. I, I don’t, whatever, um, so Celaena watches Cain and Grave go head to head and

[01:13:09] while Grave holds his ground, briefly, Cain overpowers him. The dude is a beast and apparently quite literally, he doesn’t even look like he’s trying, but the sheer force of his attacks has Grave trembling and you know, Grave is not a somebody that you expected to be, timid, right? And if he’s cowering in the face of Cain, then you, you know, that this is just bad news all around. it’s a very tense moment as everyone is, is watching this and just. Everyone basically is figuring Cain is going to win this and pity for the poor soul who gets all the way to the end with him because they’re [01:14:00] screwed. it’s kind of amazing that none of them, I mean, they can’t, but it, um, In the other occasion, I imagine all the other champions or most of them would be like, I’m out.

[01:14:12] Like,

[01:14:13] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:14:14] James: not even gonna bother trying to get to the end. Peace.

[01:14:21] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:14:22] James: Um, so, you know, Celaena’s frustrated. She, she’s clenching her fist. She’s holding back her feelings of inadequacy because she knows the Cain is stronger, obviously. And she’s questioning, you know, can she prove herself when the time comes?

[01:14:42] Ka-Ce: See, I disagree slightly. I don’t think she’s, I don’t think she’s filled with rage or frustration over the fact that she feels inadequate. I think her rage comes from the fact that she’s been having to hold back this whole time. Chaol told her to hold back and to be middle of the pack. She’s not been getting Brullo’s praise. And this whole time Cain knew who she was. So Now there is no reason for her to hold back. And if she had known that Cain had known about her this whole time? She wouldn’t have had to play this middle of the pack

[01:15:22] ha ha Jewel Thief. She could have been beating his ass at every test, throughout this whole thing.

[01:15:28] So, I think that’s where her rage and her frustration was coming from. Was, you know, he’s, he’s going head to head with Grave right now. He’s clearly winning without even Brullo’s giving him more praise. And she’s just like, fuck you, fuck this. Like, fuck no. That’s how I took it.

[01:15:51] James: Well and yea, and he’s not holding back. And yeah, like I said, she’s been forced to hold back and, [01:16:00] um, yeah, that makes sense.

[01:16:03] Ka-Ce: You can disagree with me.

[01:16:05] James: I mean, I still feel like she is still looking at it and she has to be questioning whether she can pull this off. Um, just based on the fact that he is making it look so effortless.

[01:16:20] Ka-Ce: True.

[01:16:23] James: But I think you’re, you do raise a good point about the whole rage about her. You know, she has not been allowed to perform the way she wants to perform,

[01:16:35] Ka-Ce: Mm hmm.

[01:16:36] James: but I still think that is to her benefit though, because nobody really can expect her best performance if, if they don’t know that it’s there, you know, um, I

[01:16:55] Ka-Ce: Technical difficulties.

[01:16:56] James: I think it works to her. I still think that her not showcasing her best abilities works to her, um, benefit.

[01:17:06] Ka-Ce: I thought that was a really good strategy. Um, you know, you didn’t want to have her with the target right from the get go. Because a bunch of brutish men, they’re of course going to target who they think is the weakest link. And who would that be? Some 18 year old girl.

[01:17:23] James: Mm hmm.

[01:17:24] Ka-Ce: So it was a good strategy. I can also feel where she is getting her frustration from, you know, as we’ve mentioned before, she was raised and trained to be the best, to be number one.

[01:17:37] And if you’re not number one, you’re the loser.

[01:17:39] James: Mm hmm.

[01:17:40] Ka-Ce: she’s used to always getting the praise and stuff during trainings. And she’s not getting that now. And that’s frustrating.

[01:17:51] James: Yeah, I mean, it is a, for somebody like her, yeah, that, that is a, something [01:18:00] that she needs.

[01:18:01] Ka-Ce: Yeah,

[01:18:02] James: Luckily, she’s going to get her chance though, because her chance to fight, comes up and it’s her versus Verin. The curly haired thief, who is as much of a loudmouth as he is a coward. He antagonizes Celaena with vulgar taunts about her and Nox.

[01:18:26] but Celaena’s sharp retort steals the s steals the show. She says, shut your mouth, you damn pig. That’s not very ladylike. which I think kind of took some of them off guard a little bit. Chaol and Dorian, who’ve been watching the whole time, they push off from where they’re leaning against the wall.

[01:18:50] Celaena sees them and ignores them. She’s had enough of the hiding, enough of the holding back, enough of the woe is me. Meek proper Lillian. She’s done with it. So The fight starts and it’s over boom in seconds Celaena doesn’t even draw her sword just using pure skill and agility she knocks Verin out of the ring with a brutal kick to the chest and Honestly, I just see her in my head.

[01:19:30] She just comes up, you know walks up to him and she’s just like “sparta!” And, and then, yeah, mic drop just

[01:19:39] Ka-Ce: I, I was envisioning more of like, Black Widow, like, just all of the quick, and then a powerhouse kick to send him

[01:19:47] James: Oh, yeah, I guess that would in any case, though, it was over faster. The buildup was longer than the actual fight.

[01:19:59] Ka-Ce: yeah.[01:20:00]

[01:20:00] James: Um,

[01:20:01] Ka-Ce: I love it. was like, hell yeah, this is what we’ve been waiting for.

[01:20:05] James: yeah, no it was great. She didn’t just win. She made a statement. Like, do not underestimate me. Uh, she tells Verin, if he mocks her again, that she’ll repeat what she did, but with a sword, and then she turns and taunts the weapons master, which okay, that’s ballsy,

[01:20:26] Ka-Ce: Super ballsy

[01:20:27] James: and she says, give me real men to fight, solidifying, you know, her position and basically telling everyone, you know, in the ring, um, y’all better watch out because

[01:20:42] Ka-Ce: Don’t fuck with me

[01:20:43] James: I am not to be trifled with. And it was, I really. You know, I, I do, um, I do love a good, like fight, you know, you know, punches and swords, but sometimes when people come in and they’re just like, I don’t have time for this and just, and you’re like, no, that was good.

[01:21:06] Ka-Ce: yeah,

[01:21:06] James: I like that.

[01:21:08] Ka-Ce: Yeah. What better way to put bullies in their place than to just give them the bitch slap that knocks them out, and, you know. Like, you don’t need to draw it out and do this big fancy sword and dance maneuver, just one and done.

[01:21:28] James: You just got beat by a girl.

[01:21:32] Ka-Ce: Yeah, because you know Verin’s not gonna be able to live this down now with, like, any of the champions

[01:21:38] James: Oh no, no, he’s screwed.

[01:21:42] Ka-Ce: Yeah. And I mean, it, it does, it does play her hand. It does show everybody her actual skill. Um, And it does, you know, paint more of a target on her back. You know, she’s already having to face these, these [01:22:00] guys knowing that she’s an 18 year old girl.

[01:22:03] You know, she’s smaller than everybody and everything. She’s just some petty jewel thief. What is she actually doing there? But now, now everybody can see like, Oh fuck, she actually has skill. She can fight like, yeah, she was good with the bow. Yeah. She was able to climb the wall, you know, and she could hold herself with Javelin throwing and whatever, but fuck she just took out a grown ass man with like three moves and didn’t even draw her sword

[01:22:31] James: Yeah, yeah, you have to be insanely skilled to pull off something like that. That’s not a fluke, or, you know, she knew what she was doing, she had a goal, and, and she went for it, and she did it, you know,

[01:22:48] um, so she’s feeling a little cocky, you know, rightfully so, she earned it,

[01:22:53] Ka-Ce: Oh yeah.

[01:22:54] James: and she goes, and she goes right up to Cain, with all the confidence in the world, and, The, uh, the tension between them, you know, you can just feel it.

[01:23:07] She calls herself, you know, little lap dog. She’s smiling at him and Cain, you know, he’s acting very, disinterested, like, okay, like you’ve, you thought you did something, but whatever. but we know that the, the tension is being set right for, for them. know that they’re going to be the ones at the end, pretty much

[01:23:37] Ka-Ce: Oh, definitely.

[01:23:38] James: Um, at this point I don’t see Cain getting eaten by anything,

[01:23:46] Ka-Ce: No,

[01:23:47] James: he’s too much of an integral player at this point. Um,

[01:23:53] Ka-Ce: I would be very surprised or I would have been very surprised either way

[01:23:59] James: yeah,

[01:23:59] Ka-Ce: [01:24:00] if he, if he was, but no, I, I definitely see Celaena and Cain at the final duel

[01:24:07] James: yeah,

[01:24:08] yeah, so we’ve got, we’ve got the stages said, um, Cain is going to definitely be her biggest obstacle, you know, can she actually beat him? That’s a problem for another day. Right now, she got through this one. Um, you know, but she at least has gotten, she has made it known, you know, it’s not going to be easy for you.

[01:24:33] Um, and. And I imagine that that’s taking up a little bit of his, you know, attention now, kind of like, uh, damn it. I thought this was going to be a little easier, now I actually kind of maybe have to pay attention to her, you know, it’s all about getting in the, getting in their head,

[01:24:55] Ka-Ce: Yup

[01:24:56] James: So, we’re going back, Celaena’s in her room, she’s reflecting on her test, the competition, you know, the, the duel that’s eventually going to come up between her and Cain, and there’s, snow is falling outside, and We’ve got this kind of just nice scene where she’s, doing, being very reflective on everything that’s currently going on, because right now it’s kind of crazy.

[01:25:24] She’s looking back at the tapestry on of Queen Elena, the not ghost ghost queen. That’s her title forever now. And

[01:25:35] Ka-Ce: Forever and ever, not ghost, ghost Queen.

[01:25:37] James: she’s thinking, you know, she used to wish for adventure in the great wide somewhere. And. You know,

[01:25:47] Ka-Ce: You were supposed to sing that.

[01:25:49] James: I was supposed to sing that?

[01:25:51] Ka-Ce: It’s a reference to Beauty and the Beast.

[01:25:53] James: Oh,

[01:25:54] Ka-Ce: She’d want adventure great wide somewhere. She’d want it more than she could tell. Anyways, that was my nerd [01:26:00] moment.

[01:26:00] James: okay. I, yeah, I didn’t catch that. but of course, you know, she, she wished for adventure, but she didn’t realize that she’d be fighting for her freedom or that she’d be alone. And we get a glimpse that she misses Sam. and you know, they haven’t talked about Sam a whole lot. Um, You know, we kind of know who he is and we know that he was taken from her and there was a betrayal.

[01:26:26] and I think that with everything going on right with, with the competition and the flirting from Dorian, she hasn’t had a whole lot of time to think about him, but she’s alone right now. And she’s contemplative, right? She’s thinking about her life and how it went awry.

[01:26:46] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:26:47] James: Um, So she’s, she’s, noticing the tapestry, it’s very symbol, symbolic. Um, there’s a stag representing Terrasen, it’s standing beside Elena, and it reminds her of her own roots and her hidden identity. The amulet is warm against her skin, subtle nudge that, you know, magic is always watching, which is interesting in a world that has no magic.

[01:27:19] Ka-Ce: Mm hmm.

[01:27:21] James: Um, and, you know, so you kind of have to wonder is, Is this wishful thinking, you know? Or like, is is it actually like providing something for her protection, guidance? Um, you know, is there an actual benefit to this necklace or is it mostly, you know, just the reassurance of it there, knowing that Elena, although she hasn’t done a whole lot for her, she is [01:28:00] watching her, you know,

[01:28:04]

[01:28:04] Ka-Ce: Yeah. Yeah. Like you mentioned, for a world supposedly with no magic, we are getting these like little things. We’re like, are you sure? You know, with, with the amulet kind of being warm and giving that comforting feeling, you know, these gargoyles, even Elena herself, this Not ghost, ghost queen that keeps visiting her.

[01:28:37] Like, how is that possible without magic,

[01:28:41] James: that’s true. That at the very root of everything, how is she doing that

[01:28:47] Ka-Ce: right?

[01:28:52] James: Um,

[01:28:53] Ka-Ce: Little sir here wants answers and I think we need to provide answers.

[01:28:58] James: well, little sir. Uh, we’ll, uh,

[01:29:04] Ka-Ce: And here is our chaotic moment. So

[01:29:12] James: yeah, she’s not having it.

[01:29:14] Ka-Ce: no,

[01:29:16] James: Um, okay, so we’ve got Celaena. She’s being, you know, uh, introspective, self-reflective. I think that means the same thing. Um, you know, and now we’re shifting gears, over to the most gracious lady Kaltain, right? Everybody’s favorite court lady. She’s a woman with a plan and Yeah She’s at the court with the Queen.

[01:29:50] She’s watching the peasants do peasant things, acrobatics, and she doesn’t care [01:30:00] but Perrington arranged for her to sit next to the Queen and She’s not gonna pass that opportunity up. I mean, she’s the Queen Somebody says, I’m getting you a seat next to the Queen, you go and you sit next to the Mother f’in queen, okay?

[01:30:18] Kaltain knows that she could press him to make her his duchess. Although, why? Because, oh. She doesn’t want to be a duchess. She wants more. She wants Dorian. She wants Dorian’s bed. She wants his money, and she wants the position that comes with that. Girl’s got goals. but, you know, we’re seeing a problem here now is headaches.

[01:30:48] Her head is pounding. Um, we’ve seen her, you know, struggle with this, with the headaches, and they seem to be getting worse, and they’re, she’s not getting any relief from them when she sleeps, or anything like that. And, you know, at this point, it, it seemed like there was a real, issue with her. you know, I had a thought and I completely lost the thought with that.

[01:31:21] Uh,

[01:31:24] um,

[01:31:29] she’s trying to focus on being in the Queen’s, uh, good graces, right? Because she wants an in with Dorian. And so she’s fighting through the headache. She’s still got to sit there for who knows how long, a couple hours, and she can’t leave to get to her pipe. And, and so that we’re saying, you know, Oh, why is she so focused on the pipe?

[01:31:55] What’s the pipe? Well, she’s apparently addicted to something, [01:32:00] right? I mean, that’s a natural conclusion that, that I came to. Um, the queen, you know, whether she’s picking up on this or not, she’s not letting on, but she does say that she wis she wishes that she had met Dorian first and not Perrington. Um, the queen believes herself to be an excellent judge of character.

[01:32:31] And she thinks that Kaltain would be a good match for Dorian. I’m thinking she’s the only one who thinks that.

[01:32:39] Ka-Ce: Yeah, I think so too. I get the feeling that this queen just kind of lives in her own bubble and just is not the judge of character she thinks she is

[01:32:50] James: No.

[01:32:52] Ka-Ce: And she really has no idea what is going on within her own court or within her own castle. Whether that’s just because of who she is and her personality, or if that’s maybe by the king’s design, like to keep her so sheltered and so Away from everything from the true politics and everything,

[01:33:18] James: Oh, I think it’s tailored like 100%.

[01:33:23] Ka-Ce: but like, how could you be a ruler and not, not have an interest in the actual things that are going on within your kingdom? Like your only, your only concerns are your hellish little boy, getting your oldest married and have him knock somebody up for an heir, and. Let’s watch all these performances. Like, that to me is not a true queen.

[01:33:53] James: You know, honestly, it could be that she knows that the King is an absolute monster. And [01:34:00] she says, you know what, I will just do whatever I need to do to keep myself alive. And if that means existing in my bubble, then I live in my bubble.

[01:34:12] Ka-Ce: I mean, yeah, it could be willful Ignorance, is that the right like she doesn’t want to know

[01:34:21] James: I could see that. I could see her just not wanting to know.

[01:34:25] Ka-Ce: yeah I mean, it could go either way. I I wish we got more of a backstory with the Queen, I just, anytime the Queen came up, I was just like, oh She she has no redeeming anything. She is not an interesting character to me. Can we get through these scenes?

[01:34:46] James: Yeah, she, there could have been potential for a bit more,

[01:34:53] Ka-Ce: Yea.

[01:34:54] James: but you know, there were already so many, so many characters.

[01:35:00] Ka-Ce: Yeah, we do have a lot of characters, and a lot of like other little things going on. So trying to develop yet another character would have been a lot. I just, I think because we watch a lot of kdramas and we, you know, we watch a lot of shows where we have these powerful women and I like to read stories with powerful women as do you with your sci-fi and horror and stuff. So I’m used to queens being more.

[01:35:32] James: that’s true. That’s a good point.

[01:35:33] Ka-Ce: she is very like, I’m in a bubble and yay performances and When are you having babies? Like, yeah, it just, anyways,

[01:35:51] James: Yeah, it did bring a nice contrast, though, to, um, you know, the [01:36:00] things that some of these other characters are going through, because I mean, you literally have, you know, Celaena. Stressing about how she’s going to fight Mr. Monster Man and, and Dorian and Chaol are also kind of like, you know, Oh, this is getting a little hairy.

[01:36:19] And on the complete opposite side, you just have these people who are like, how do I get in Dorian’s bed? You’re his mother. Can you help me?

[01:36:29] Ka-Ce: Right.

[01:36:32] James: different, different, completely different worries for different people who have like no idea what’s going on

[01:36:38] Ka-Ce: Yeah,

[01:36:39] James: all this she is going on over here, oops, sorry, mic. And then, falalalala, over here.

[01:36:50] Ka-Ce: it would be an interesting take. Like, you know, we have all of this going on with Celaena and Dorian and Perrington and everything. And then we have like a completely different story on what’s going on with the queen and her little bubble of politics and court disasters and court intrigue, and it would read like, as a, Like a historical, maybe almost romance, a historical intrigue versus like art fantasy, uh, like two completely different, genres happening in the same world. So,

[01:37:29] James: Yeah, I liked the, you know, the, um, the reveals in this chapter, the, you know, there was a lot of high stakes tension. There’s you know, more mysteries going around Cain and, and whatever his deal is. And then, just a lot of different layers of things and, and some. We’ve got some, you know, [01:38:00] foreshadowing with different, you know, some of the, you know, the necklace and just a lot of different things that will we get answers for maybe.

[01:38:14] Ka-Ce: hopefully, hopefully soon. Uh, that leads us into chapter 30, and the chapter kicks off with Celaena training under Chaol’s watchful and skeptical eye. Her task? She has to hit a nearly impossible target at a ridiculous distance. Because, you know, she Didn’t do that already in the archery test. Chaol in his classic snark is quick to point out that she’ll miss if she doesn’t focus and she fires back with her usual flair.

[01:38:50] I’m going to hit you in the head if you don’t shut up. Iconic. So while not even looking at the target, Celaena is focused on Chaol and releases the arrow. The arrow flies and it hits. But she misses the bullseye by six inches. It was a little to the left. So yeah, Chaol was right, but I mean,

[01:39:20] James: I would have missed the target. So,

[01:39:22] Ka-Ce: right. I would have hit the wall. It would have bounced off the ceiling and like ricocheted back at

[01:39:27] James: right. Yeah. It’s like, how did you hit your own foot? Well, okay. First of all, shut up.

[01:39:33] Ka-Ce: I mean, I, I kind of almost did that with the ax one time when we went ax throwing, but not my fault, it bounced off anyways. Um, so there, there’s tension between them in this scene, you know, a lot of their, their bickering and bantering the unspoken chemistry between them. Uh, [01:40:00] Celaena notices that while she’s studying him, that he has purple under his eyes and that he probably hasn’t been sleeping due to all these murders.

[01:40:08] But she also hasn’t been sleeping. You know, there’s been no real pattern to these murders. Like how are these champions being selected? As of right now, it’s only champions being selected, nobody else in the castle. So what is, what is this connection? There is no connection. Five of them are dead, and other than them all being champions, there’s no other connection.

[01:40:33] She also doesn’t know if there were any Wyrdmarks at the other murder sites.

[01:40:39] James: Cause she only saw the one, right? The, the one murder site.

[01:40:42] Ka-Ce: Yeah, she only saw Xavier’s. So, without talking to Chaol, she’s not gonna know, and Chaol, who hasn’t really studied the Wyrdmarks, wouldn’t know either, or maybe

[01:40:56] James: Yeah. Would he,

[01:40:57] Ka-Ce: think to look for

[01:40:58] James: yeah. Would he even, if he was even looking right at it, would he, or would he just think it was just like, Blood that got, yeah,

[01:41:07] Ka-Ce: So at this point in time, Celaena does drop a major revelation. She tells Chaol that Cain knows who she really is.

[01:41:18] She is Celaena Sardothian, Adarlan’s assassin. And the kicker, it was Duke Perrington who told Cain, because how else would Cain have known? But Cain hasn’t exposed her yet to any of the other competitors, which is Chaol’s biggest worry.

[01:41:37] Um, so is Cain saving this information for a later advantage? Why not tell the others? Who she is.

[01:41:48] James: And why does Perrington know?

[01:41:51] Ka-Ce: Well, cause remember Perrington went with

[01:41:53] James: Oh, you’re right. I completely forgot. Sorry. I thought that was a big old like dun, dun, and it was just me fucking up. [01:42:00] Sorry, everybody.

[01:42:02] Ka-Ce: That was literally chapter two.

[01:42:05] James: Chapter two was a long time ago.

[01:42:07] Ka-Ce: It really was. Um, Yeah, so no, Perrington was there, so Perrington knows.

[01:42:13] James: I completely forgot.

[01:42:15] Ka-Ce: But what was Perrington’s endgame in tipping Cain off, and tipping Cain off so early? So is the Duke more involved in this competition, or even the murders, than we initially thought?

[01:42:31] James: I mean, yeah, he’s definitely more invested than he, than I would think he should be.

[01:42:38] Ka-Ce: But he’s also the King’s, like, right hand man, so, like, I think he has, like, Like an invested stake, like he has to win this competition because he is the king’s right hand man, like he needs to show up Prince Dorian and everybody else.

[01:42:57] James: Yeah, that’s true. That’s, um, he does have, you know, something to prove,

[01:43:05] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:43:06] James: I mean, he definitely has an endgame.

[01:43:09] Ka-Ce: Yeah. So the moment shifts between Celaena and Chaol when a couple of guards burst in, and they inform Chaol that he needs to come quickly. There’s been another grisly crime scene. Celaena insists on coming along and Chaol, much to our surprise, agrees. She can tag along and, you know, maybe her skills might prove useful.

[01:43:38] So, the, their dynamic here is subtle but layered. Chaol is protective about her, you know, not wanting her to be at this murder scene, but he’s starting to respect her abilities. Um, something that he won’t admit outright. The, the crime scene, [01:44:00] like all the others, is horrific. And who is the murder victim this time? It’s Verin. The loudmouthed thief that Celaena literally just fought.

[01:44:12] James: Poor guy.

[01:44:14] Ka-Ce: I mean, karma?

[01:44:17] James: Yeah, I guess.

[01:44:20] Ka-Ce: So, his brain is missing, his chest is ripped open, he’s missing his face. Uh, there are claw marks gouged into the stone around him. And what’s a little different about this murder? There are two Wyrdmarks on either side of his body, but not marked in blood. They’re marked in chalk this time. So it’s not the same replicated murder as Xavier, where we saw the Wyrdmarks in blood and then smeared, this time it’s in chalk.

[01:44:57] James: It’s like the murders have been like, it’s like a refining process. Like you have the one who was murdered and there was like nothing. And then there was the murder and there was a part of a Wyrdmark written in blood, and now you have another one and it’s nice, and in chalk, like it’s, it’s each one is getting

[01:45:17] Ka-Ce: more refined

[01:45:18] James: more refined and

[01:45:19] Ka-Ce: perfected.

[01:45:20] James: Yeah, like, there’s definitely a pattern that you’re seeing somebody’s leveling up their game as they’re going.

[01:45:28] Ka-Ce: Yeah. Uh, so Celaena’s analytical side kicks in as she examines the scene, examines the body. She notices the clean claw marks, meaning the killer had time to sharpen its claws in the stone, and Verin’s desperate attempts to escape. Her observations are sharp and chilling, painting a picture of a predator who takes its time.

[01:45:52] She notices that Verin’s, ankles were slashed, you know, cutting the tendons so he wouldn’t be able to run. [01:46:00] And

[01:46:00] James: Ugh.

[01:46:01] Ka-Ce: she examined, she examines his nails, you know, and notices that there’s stone and dirt and his nails are caked and cracked because he was attempting to drag himself away, you know, to get away from this.

[01:46:16] she asks the guard how fresh the corpse is. And the guard says that he probably died last night. The blood is half dried. So my question is, are these servant’s passageways, because that’s where he is found again, like Xavier and the others, are these not commonly used? Like, or are these more like Celaena’s secret tunnels?

[01:46:41] James: Secret tunnel.

[01:46:43] Ka-Ce: Secret tunnels! How are these bodies not being discovered faster if they are in active servants passages?

[01:46:52] James: that doesn’t make any sense to me. And I just, I honestly don’t know if that’s an oversight in the story, in the writing, or if it’s, like you said, different, not used. But somebody found them at some point.

[01:47:04] Ka-Ce: At some point, I mean, I get at night, the servants aren’t going to be as active, but you would think that there would be some

[01:47:11] James: least something

[01:47:13] Ka-Ce: you know, like the night shift, you know, last minute, whatever’s or whoever’s requesting hot milk at 2 a. m., you know, you, we also saw, you know, Dorian and Celaena who made requests for a bunch of desserts and snacks, late at night.

[01:47:35] So they, they would be, there would be some usage of tunnels.

[01:47:39] James: You would think. Yeah. It’s just a little weird. It doesn’t, it’s hard to imagine how a body would not have been discovered almost immediately.

[01:47:49] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:47:49] James: somebody walking in on him during the actual murder, murderification.

[01:47:55] Ka-Ce: Yes.

[01:47:55] James: Like,

[01:47:59] Ka-Ce: Uh, [01:48:00] so, Something also to note that, or at least that I noted, it was noted that Verin had been head of the pack of the champions since the competition started. And this was news to me because this whole time we’re getting the sense that Cain was head of the pack. Cain was getting all the praise from Brullo.

[01:48:20] And it sounded like Cain was winning all the competitions. So to hear that Verin was actually head Head of the pack is new. So was that why he’s targeted? I kind of wish that there was like a leaderboard or something, you know, after each test, so we kind of know like what the rankings of, of the champs were.

[01:48:44] But

[01:48:47] James: It would have been, yeah, it would have been nice to get a little bit of a, um, uh, um, Oh, what’s the word I’m trying to think of? I can’t think of the word, but it’s the thing so that you have reference to, you know, the things around you.

[01:49:04] Ka-Ce: Yeah. Uh, Celaena’s assessment points

[01:49:09] James: Context. Sorry. Context is the word I was looking for.

[01:49:15] Ka-Ce: context makes sense.

[01:49:16] James: Dear Lord.

[01:49:19] Ka-Ce: Celaena’s assessment points to something terrifying. Verin was alive while his killer prepared to attack, and it wasn’t a random beast. It was likely summoned by someone. The deliberate nature of the wounds and the presence of the Wyrdmarks suggest a ritualistic killing. There was no blood in the claw marks, so whoever did this sharpened its claws before gutting Verin. And it just points to the fact, again, like we said, that this creature had time to sharpen its claws. This whole scene kind of made my forensic anthropology heart happy. Not, not because of the murder, but because she took the time [01:50:00] to analyze the crime scene and, you know, looked at everything.

[01:50:04] James: She’s Batman.

[01:50:07] Ka-Ce: or she’s Dr. Reichs from Bones. But in a fantasy world. So, Chaol and Celaena continue to look at the clues around them, you know, trying to see everything. They look at the torches, and the torches in the hall are almost burnt to stubs and there’s no signs of them being extinguished before the attack.

[01:50:30] So if the torches are being lit. Then this is a servant’s passageway that is being used. So how did no servant again come across this body earlier? And there is no magic in this world, so we know that these torches are being lit by hand. They’re not just like magic torches that spring when it’s dark. My next question, what on earth is Verin doing in these hallways and by himself? What were any of the champions doing alone and wandering about? All of the previously murdered ones, are they not guarded like Celaena is?

[01:51:11] James: You kind of get the idea that they’re not, like,

[01:51:14] Ka-Ce: like anywhere Celaena goes, she has guards with her. So knowing how dangerous some of these other champions are, like how are they not guarded 24/7?

[01:51:28] James: Unless, unless there is just somebody who’s pulling the strings, you know, higher above, and whoever is doing this is able to go to them and be like, Hey, I need you to come with me or meet me here or so is it somebody that they know? Somebody that they don’t perceive necessarily as a threat, you know, and, and then they end up, you know, in these dark quarters and then it’s like, ah, gotcha, bitch,[01:52:00]

[01:52:02] Ka-Ce: I mean, yeah, yeah,

[01:52:09] James: yeah, they must be getting. I originally, I thought that they were just maybe in the wrong place at the wrong time, but now rereading it, I kind of feel like they’re being drawn there by somebody who is literally like a, like, either I’ll help you out or you need to help me out or something. And then, and then when I said help out, I meant I need your innards.

[01:52:40] Ka-Ce: yeah, I mean, that’s, that’s possible. I just, these were some of the questions I was thinking, like, this is just a little too convenient. Like these are my little plot holes that I’m finding. So going back to these torches, there’s no traces of soot water. So the torches were still burning when Verin died.

[01:53:03] If Verin died during the night. Celaena points out that the nearest doorway is 50 feet down and the nearest corner is a bit farther than that. If the torches were burning, Verin clearly saw who or what attacked him. again, his ankle tendons were snapped by a knife so he couldn’t get away. He was disabled as someone summoned a creature perhaps?

[01:53:26] Suit and cracked fingernails show that Verin was scrambling to get away. Celaena comes to the realization that perhaps the champion’s killer and Elena’s mysterious evil force might be one and the same.

[01:53:41] James: Gargoyles

[01:53:42] Ka-Ce: Husband is still on the gargoyle

[01:53:44] James: telling you, I think it’s the gargoyles

[01:53:47] Ka-Ce: Chaol’s reaction is telling. He’s shaken, but he trusts Celaena’s deductions, even when they border on the supernatural, and it’s a pivotal moment in their partnership. [01:54:00] Um, I know you wrote that he’s beginning to see her as an equal and not as a prisoner, but I don’t quite agree with this. Um.

[01:54:10] James: that was more of a, uh, just, uh, I feel like it was inferred from,

[01:54:17] Ka-Ce: Hmm.

[01:54:18] James: from the way that the dynamic of the relationship is changing a bit, just based on the fact that he allowed her to come with him to the murder scene, I think it’s, it’s showing us that his opinion and view of her is changing and he is taking, What she says and brings to the table more seriously than he was before

[01:54:40] Ka-Ce: I get that. I understand that. I think we’ve, I’ve been burned by him a lot. You

[01:54:48] James: I mean,

[01:54:48] Ka-Ce: He makes progress. He takes a step forward with Celaena and then he takes three steps back. So I’m waiting for him to pull the rug again. Like, yes, he brought her this time to get her insights. And then I feel like he’s immediately going to shut down and be like, yeah, you’re still a criminal.

[01:55:08] James: well, that’s why I think it’s, he’s beginning to see her as a need, but, but he doesn’t yet. It’s just, you can see, at least I think you can see the, the openings of this change in his perception. And we’re hoping that he’s going to be less of a dick

[01:55:29] Ka-Ce: I’m hoping, I’m hoping.

[01:55:33] James: pray for our boy Chaol hopes and prayers for Chaol.

[01:55:37]

[01:55:37] Ka-Ce: If the wyrdmarks are being used to summon these creatures, who is wielding this power and how are they getting away with it right under the castle’s nose? But also, if there is no magic, how are people using wyrdmarks?

[01:55:52] James: That is the burning question.

[01:55:54] Ka-Ce: Yes, yes it is. Back in her room, Celaena [01:56:00] is combing through her books trying to find any sign of the two wyrdmarks that were next to Verin, and she’s just Not having any luck and this is the third time that I believe it’s third time But Dorian has yet again Entered her room and startling her what has happened to her creaky hinges

[01:56:25] James: What’s just happened to her, uh, perception of, uh, things??

[01:56:31] Ka-Ce: This is bothering me to no end

[01:56:34] James: No, I, I, I agree. Cause he shouldn’t, no.. She was distracted the first time,

[01:56:43] Ka-Ce: with the pianoforte

[01:56:44] James: but I mean, come on now.

[01:56:47] Ka-Ce: and even throwing a tantrum tantrum tantrum You With the billiards. I feel like she still should have been able to sense him. He’s a human prince He yes has had training with various weapons and stuff But he has not had her training to be able to sneak up on people and he has managed to do this like three times. But I digress so Dorian confirms that all the murders that happen, that have happened, were in the dark and in isolated hallways.

[01:57:26] So maybe they’re not regularly used hallways, but used enough that they still light the torches. Um, and that she is never without guards. Her chambers are well watched, so he’s okay to, you know, roam the regular hallways to her room from his room at night. Dorian’s hounds, Dorian’s hound had puppies and they’re all mutts, not purebreds like he was

[01:57:54] James: I love that they’re mutts.

[01:57:56] Ka-Ce: Oh, I do too. Mutts are the best. [01:58:00] Celaena teases him, dogs or women. They banter and it’s cute. I love their little banters and their flirting. He wants to know more about her, about becoming an assassin and more. Which is, again, like I mentioned earlier, complete opposite of Chaol, who didn’t want to learn anything about Celaena, and I feel like he learned things here and there, but kind of begrudgingly.

[01:58:27] This exchange takes another unexpected turn when Dorian, out of nowhere, asks Celaena to play the pianoforte again for him. Request is oddly personal, catching her off guard, and her hesitation isn’t just about shyness, it’s a reflection of how deeply music ties into her identity and the life she left behind. So they go back and forth, And Celaena agrees. Dorian is able to ask one personal question of her, and she confides in him that she loves music. Because for once, she is able to create something, not destroy. And she further tells him that when she was young, she wanted to be a healer. And music reminds her of that feeling, that creative feeling. It’s a rare moment of vulnerability. Celaena, the assassin with blood on her hands, longs to create something beautiful. And this line speaks volumes about her internal struggle and hints at the possibility for redemption, even if she doesn’t fully believe it herself. Dorian listens intently, his genuine curiosity about her past driving just home about how much he cares for her.

[01:59:46] Um, in turn, she gets to ask him a Personal question, and she asks why he isn’t married yet. We find out [02:00:00] that he is 19

[02:00:01] James: He’s a baby.

[02:00:03] Ka-Ce: is a baby, just like she is, 18 and 19. He’s not married because he can’t stomach the idea of marrying a woman inferior to him in mind and spirit. Celaena mocks him for it, saying marriage is a contract, not a sacred thing, especially since he is a crown prince. Uh, they’re abusing, they’re abusing, scratch that. Their opposing views highlight the stark difference in their upbringings, Dorian, despite being royalty, clings to ideals, but feel out of place in a world so full of political maneuvering and betrayal. And Celaena, on the other hand, has seen too much of life’s cruelty to entertain such So the deeper question, is Dorian’s idealism a weakness or a strength?

[02:00:54] And could Celaena ever allow herself to believe in something so hopeful?

[02:01:00] James: That’s a hard ask, I think, for, um, for her at this moment, you know, she still has so much that she’s dealing with. And honestly, the last thing she needs is to be worrying about a relationship with anybody, much less a prince. Um, you know, could she allow it, you know, someday? Yeah, maybe. Um, but, but not today. And, you know, Dorian, I think, uh, It’s hard to say, you know, idealism being a weakness or a strength because, Because it honestly, it can, it can, it can go both ways, honestly. Like, you know, it, it, it, If you hold on to those ideals a little too tight, sometimes it can, it can end up [02:02:00] hurting you when you’re not able to make a tough call. Um, but if you have no ideals, then you, you won’t stand up for the things to try and protect them. So

[02:02:14] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[02:02:14] James: Yeah, it’s, that’s not an easy question to answer.

[02:02:18] Ka-Ce: No, it’s not. Um, I think too, they’re both quite young, still. And your views change, you know, with different life experiences as you get older. They, they might not feel, the same way, you know, in five, 10 years, it’s also harder on the crown prince because the crown prince is expected to marry, not for love,

[02:02:47] James: No,

[02:02:49] Ka-Ce: you know, they have to make those political arrangements.

[02:02:52] They have to secure the throne. They have to have legitimate heirs. And it’s hard, I would say for a prince or a princess, because you are tied to your people and you are tied to, you know, all the political,

[02:03:11] James: duty.

[02:03:12] Ka-Ce: yeah, your duty. He doesn’t have the freedom as much as he wants it. He doesn’t have the freedom for true love

[02:03:23] James: I mean, it’s a, I, you know, Like, idealism and all that is great, but doesn’t always work the way that, uh,

[02:03:35] Ka-Ce: No.

[02:03:36] James: know.

[02:03:38] Ka-Ce: So while they bicker banter over this topic, Dorian moves closer and his hand brushes over hers and he realizes she’s wearing a ring and he asks where it’s from, who gave it to her. And she doesn’t tell him knowing that Chaol wouldn’t want Dorian to know that The ring was from him. Dun, [02:04:00] dun, dun.

[02:04:00] Keeping secrets already. Somehow, the way the collar of Dorian’s black jacket lays across his neck makes her feel a little, hmm, bothered. So she quickly gets up, moves away from him, and asks him for a game of billiards, realizing that she’s, she’s starting to really like Dorian, all the while wearing Chaol’s ring

[02:04:29] James: And I love that she wants to distract herself by playing a game with balls.

[02:04:34] Ka-Ce: and sticks.

[02:04:35] James: Not a great game choice.

[02:04:38] Ka-Ce: Get your mind out of the gutter.

[02:04:40] James: Never.

[02:04:44] Ka-Ce: While this is happening, while Dorian and Celaena are flirting and playing with balls and sticks, Chaol is at the dining hall, watching Perrington. Perrington hadn’t seemed bothered about Verin’s death when Chaol told him, and in fact, most of the champion’s sponsors didn’t seem bothered by it at all, but perhaps Celaena was right, and the one responsible was one of them, wanting to secure their champion as the winner. Chaol also notices, like, some shadows stretching across Perrington’s face throughout dinner, like a shade that is clouding his eyes. It was strange enough when Chaol first, uh, witnessed it that he decided to extend his dinner and continue to watch. A few moments later, he was rewarded and he saw that the Duke’s eyes became dark, um, and then his face cleared as if he saw the world for what it was and there was no joy or amusement in it.

[02:05:47] James: So, you know, just thinking about that, do you think that that was a moment where we were seeing Perrington fighting [02:06:00] for, like, his own clarity of mind or,

[02:06:05] Ka-Ce: Mmm.

[02:06:06] James: there’s something clearly going on with him

[02:06:09] Ka-Ce: Yeah. Oh, definitely.

[02:06:11] James: the way that that is, the way that that scene is described, it just seemed like, like there was a moment where he was disconnected and then Something reasserted

[02:06:26] Ka-Ce: Mmm.

[02:06:27] James: influence like on him, right?

[02:06:31] Ka-Ce: I was, when I first read it, I was like, I was actually thinking like something was communicating with him or he was communicating with something.

[02:06:39] James: Oh, that’s a good, uh, actually that’s a good one too.

[02:06:43] Ka-Ce: Um, but it could go either way or maybe it’s a combination of both.

[02:06:49] James: I mean, cause we just don’t have enough information about what’s going on, you know, and whether, you know, yeah, we just don’t, it’s just interesting. Just something that stuck out to me was it just seemed like he wasn’t there. And then. Something was there, but is it Perrington or is it something else? Or is it Perrington with

[02:07:18] Ka-Ce: Talking with

[02:07:19] James: with something else or, you know, something, right?

[02:07:22] But I mean, it’s definitely something.

[02:07:25] Ka-Ce: Yeah. There is definitely there something there. Chaol notes that Kaltain is sitting just a few chairs away. Um, and that she didn’t look at Perrington with love or longing, which We all know she has none of for him, but nobody else knows that. In fact, she’s staring at Perrington with cold contemplation.

[02:07:47] Dorian had not shown up for dinner, and Chaol looked over at Perrington again to see Perrington look down to the black ring on his left hand, and his eyes [02:08:00] darkened, as if the pupils expanded to encompass all of his eyes, and then it was gone. He quickly looked to Kaltain to see if she noticed. I have to admit, I don’t remember Perrington having this black ring.

[02:08:15] I know that we’ve read that Cain had this black ring. Um, because Celaena mentioned, like, why wear this huge black ring,

[02:08:25] James: Yeah,

[02:08:25] Ka-Ce: know, to training and everything. Um, and Cain is Perrington’s champion, but I don’t remember Perrington having a ring. I would have to go back and research that.

[02:08:40] James: yeah, I don’t, um, I feel like it, if it wasn’t, if it wasn’t mentioned, I feel like it must have been inferred

[02:08:50] Ka-Ce: Hmm,

[02:08:51] James: or something. Um, But yeah, I would have to go back and really look through and see if that was mentioned before. Or maybe it was just we got the description of the eyes, and so we, in your head, you just assume that the two things are connected somehow, maybe?

[02:09:10] I don’t remember. But,

[02:09:12] Ka-Ce: maybe. Maybe. So there is a, so knowing now that both Cain and Perrington have these black rings, it would make sense to assume that there is a connection between them since Perrington, Cain is Perrington’s champion. Um, and they both have these black rings. Can they communicate through these rings? Even though there’s no magic in this world,

[02:09:41] James: you know, we’ve already seen so much magic.

[02:09:45] Ka-Ce: or something like magic,

[02:09:47] James: Like, is the magic actually not, uh,

[02:09:50] Ka-Ce: not gone like we are told it is. Uh, maybe the rings are a way to circumvent that. [02:10:00] So

[02:10:00] James: don’t know, maybe. Interesting. Hehehe.

[02:10:09] Ka-Ce: it seems like to Chaol, Keltain didn’t notice anything, he decides to stretch and, you know, make his way out. He decides Perrington is a schemer. But he’s not a threat to the castle or inhabitants, but as he leaves, he Has this feeling that Perrington had been watching him all evening too, and I just, my boy Chaol, how can he think that Perrington is not a threat to anyone when he just witnessed Perrington’s eyes go black several times? How can he not put Perrington into any sus columns? Like,

[02:10:57] James: Yeah, he’s not doing a good job at his whole guarding job thing. Unless he just looked at it and explained it away in his head like, Uh, nah,

[02:11:11] Ka-Ce: It was the shadows.

[02:11:12] James: shadows or I’m tired, or something.

[02:11:18] Ka-Ce: maybe because Kaltain didn’t react.

[02:11:21] James: It would be very easy, yeah. I would doubt myself probably. Like if nobody else is like, you know, cause I mean, she was staring right at him.

[02:11:33] Ka-Ce: Yeah,

[02:11:34] James: so if, if nobody else reacted and I was like, no, I, well, did I see, no, maybe I didn’t, maybe I just need some more water or something.

[02:11:49] Ka-Ce: I need to lay off the mead tonight, you know

[02:11:51] James: Exactly. Like, it would be easy to explain, to rationalize, you [02:12:00] know.

[02:12:04] Alright, chapter 31. Celaena is sleeping. She wakes up, and she finds a spectral visitor at the foot of her bed. Is this a dream? Is it a ghost? Is it a not ghost ghost? Uh, is it a, just a, you know, a hallucination from sleep deprivation? You know, what is, what is going on here with Celaena?

[02:12:34] She, we know the girl’s tired, and she’s got a lot on her mind, and the last thing she’s expecting is to be woken up in the middle of the night, With, some floating thing at the foot of her bed. And it’s her favorite person. Uh, it’s good old Elena, the first queen of Ardalen. Adarlan. Back with her cryptic advice that’s really not worth.

[02:13:01] Well, actually, this one is actually okay. Uh, what is it with ghosts and their inability to just say what they mean?

[02:13:10] Ka-Ce: Amen.

[02:13:11] James: Elena tells Celaena, you must win this competition. Like No shit. Um, but wait, it’s, it’s not for Celaena’s freedom this time. It’s because Elena is apparently really invested in her success. Um, and my question is, is why, you know, like the, the goal has been this whole time, You have to win this competition.

[02:13:43] We know that, right? Why, why all of a sudden are you like a cheerleader, like, you gotta win, you know, like, just kind of odd. But then she, she comes in and she drops another thing and she’s like, keep an eye on your right.[02:14:00]

[02:14:01] Ka-Ce: That’s not cryptic at all.

[02:14:03] James: And, you know, and then Celaena immediately looks to her right, sees the tapestry for the, for the hidden passage. Right. And she’s like, um, okay, is that what you meant or, you know, and then, Elena’s gone. And Celaena’s just like, okay,

[02:14:34] Ka-Ce: What the hell?

[02:14:36] James: um, so of course, you know, we’re sitting here wondering, is it a literal like, look to your right? So does Celaena need to be constantly like checking stuff to her right as she’s going about her day? is that a clue? Is that a clue? Is that the clue? Or is it one of those? you’ll know when the time you’ll know when you know, like, And that’s when you’ll know.

[02:15:01] And it’s like, well,

[02:15:04] Ka-Ce: Straightforward answers, please.

[02:15:06] James: it was me, I’d be dead because I don’t pick up on stuff like that.

[02:15:13] Ka-Ce: I’m not. Yeah, I don’t either. Like, if it’s subtle, like, please just shoot me. Lay it out for me, black and white, A to B.

[02:15:22] James: Be like, um, I’m sorry, ghost lady. Um, I’m gonna screw this up. You need to come back and leave me some written notes, cuz

[02:15:34] Ka-Ce: Yes,

[02:15:36] James: yeah, it’s not gonna Nope. Um, so now it’s test day. It’s two weeks after Samhain. They had another test that we didn’t get to see, which is knife throwing, which is a damn shame because knife throwing is fun.

[02:15:58] Ka-Ce: it is super fun, and that would [02:16:00] have been a great scene to read about.

[02:16:03] James: we’ve had another champion die two days before this. So our champions are now down to 13 from 24.

[02:16:15] Ka-Ce: Geez.

[02:16:17] James: So yeah, 11 champions have died. Now they haven’t all been sacrificed because we did have one get an arrow to the throat and we had one fall off of the wall. So nine.

[02:16:34] Ka-Ce: Yes.

[02:16:37] James: Um, that’s, that’s not a great number.

[02:16:39] Ka-Ce: No.

[02:16:40] James: Um, so we’ve got the current test. That we do get to see is a test of poisons. The seven poisons in different goblets, Celaena and the others, they have to arrange them from the most benign to the deadliest. Again, I’d be dead. The true the true test would be at the end when they would have to drink from the goblet that they deemed the most harmless.

[02:17:11] Whoever got the most wrong. would go home, hopefully.

[02:17:20] Ka-Ce: If the antidote works.

[02:17:22] James: Um, and yeah, like I said, I would fail and I would die. And, you know, just even with antidotes on hand, I feel like I feel like they wouldn’t get to me in time. They’d be like, which one did he drink? Which, which antidote is it? so naturally you assume as an assassin that this, this should be a fairly easy win for her because as an assassin she would be trained in poisons, right?

[02:17:56] but of course, no, this is going to be more complex and it’s [02:18:00] in front of a bunch of people so she doesn’t have the ability to probably go about this the way that she would normally go about this and typically she would be dosing it,

[02:18:12] dosing it out, whatever, she wouldn’t be the one drinking it.

[02:18:19] Ka-Ce: Correct.

[02:18:21] James: Um, so this is how the setup is. They’re supposed to drink what they think is the least harmful poison. They guess wrong, they’re on the floor choking for the antidote. So you know that somebody looked at this and went, this is going to be a fun test. Like who did this?

[02:18:42] Ka-Ce: Hopefully. Yeah, and maybe they were hoping to, you know, knock one or two more competitors out of the running.

[02:18:50] James: Well, yeah. the poisons are put into bronze goblets so the champions can’t see what color the liquid is because that, you know, would give it away. Some mixed with sweet dessert wine. we don’t know if it’s anything else they’re mixed with and there’s three minutes left on the test and Celaena is attempting to clear her nostrils, you know, get a sense of, um, trying to get the scents of these poisons, right?

[02:19:21] Ka-Ce: It reminds me of, uh, when we were doing Scentsy, and you were like smelling all the different testers and, you know, to see which wax you want to buy, what scents you like, and after a while you can’t smell them anymore, so we’d have coffee beans on hand, and that would just help. Clear,

[02:19:39] James: It’s a palate cleanser.

[02:19:41] Ka-Ce: yes, and they did not seem to give the champions that

[02:19:45] James: I know she should have had coffee beans. so on her left. She can see that Nox is struggling and on her right, Pelor is watching her. [02:20:00] And he was down to the two same goblets that she’s struggling with. So he put the water glass at the very end as the most poisonous and the wine glass at the other as the least poisonous.

[02:20:13] Um,

[02:20:14] Ka-Ce: so I thought, and maybe I read this wrong, I probably did read this wrong, I thought like all of the goblets were like the same, like all bronze goblets, and then you had to like just basically smell or dip your fingers in to see like what they thought was poison in each one, like what type of poison, but I from the way she continues to describe it.

[02:20:39] Like there’s a water glass and then there’s a wine glass. So maybe all seven cups are different.

[02:20:45] James: See, I thought they were all the same too when I, when I, When I read it first, like, I was like, Oh yeah, you put the, put them in the bronze. So you won’t see any coloration and, and then you’re really going to have to be sitting there like, Oh shit. Did I think that this one was this way? And this one was that way?

[02:21:02] Like,

[02:21:02] Ka-Ce: because then if they’re all in the bronze, you can’t see what color it is. You’re going based solely on smell, unless you did like what she did and she, she dipped her finger in one, you know, to see if it was like purple or clear or whatever. Um, I don’t know. So maybe somebody can, Explain to us because

[02:21:24] James: yeah, I, you know,

[02:21:26] Ka-Ce: like how would she know and how would he know like his last two glasses are the same as hers one being a wine glass and one being a water glass unless all the goblets were different.

[02:21:38] James: maybe they’re differently shaped, but they’re all still bronze.

[02:21:43] Ka-Ce: Yeah,

[02:21:44] James: Ah,

[02:21:45] Ka-Ce: I’ll have to go back and reread for the fifth time. Fifth time?

[02:21:49] James: yeah. So, so she’s looking at what, Pelor’s doing and their eyes meet just super [02:22:00] briefly and he gives her a barely detectable nod and then she remembers that the first day during introductions He said he was trained in poisons, and he was standing to her right.

[02:22:15] She goes down her spine, and she’s like, Oh, Elena was telling me, look to my right. This is my right. This is, this is the warning. So Celaena followed, doing exactly what he did, moving the, the two glasses into place, like Pelor. Um, And, you know, she’s, she’s going out on a leap of faith here because, I mean, she’s really got nothing to back this up other than not ghost, ghost lady at the foot of her bed, right?

[02:22:50] So she’s taking a pretty big leap. And I mean, Pelor has no reason to help her other than the fact that he doesn’t want to get slaughtered by Cain, you know,

[02:23:04] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[02:23:05] James: um, but it is all tying together. Right.

[02:23:15] We do know that Cain did torment Pelor, right, uh, because he’s smaller, and, and she has a habit of, of, getting allies that were the ones that were kind of the on the outskirts and because she herself is on the outskirts, right? And, and so she’s taking a chance here.

[02:23:42] we’re going to see, you know, does it, does it work to her favor? We’re going to, you know, it’s a big leap. Uh, even with antidotes, I would not want to drink poison.

[02:23:52] Ka-Ce: No. Not at all.

[02:23:59] James: [02:24:00] It is worth noting, though, that it seems like nobody even really remembered anything about him. Because, if they had remembered him saying, Oh yeah, I was trained in poisons. Then, they wouldn’t have had him up there where people could just watch what he was doing.

[02:24:16] Ka-Ce: Oh no. They would have like brought them in one by one

[02:24:20] James: Yeah.

[02:24:21] Ka-Ce: test. Or they would have had like some sort of blinders or something up so people couldn’t look over and see.

[02:24:28] James: Yeah. Um. So, the time is up. The champion’s gotta put their You know, glasses into the right orders. Antidotes are ready because you know somebody screwed up. And, uh, one champion drank the water and he was on the ground, before Brullo could even give him the antidote. And that was Bloodbane. The champion was forced to swallow the antidote and then rushed to infirmary.

[02:24:56] Brullo then stops at her table and orders her to drink. With a final look at Pelor, she drank the wine, and Brullo claps her on the back and announces the right one. Just wine. Moves on to Pelor, who also drinks the wine. Two winners. What are the chances?

[02:25:12] Ka-Ce: Woo!

[02:25:14] James: but I think that that also helped to further cement the, you know, you don’t want to sit there and be like, Oh yeah, just trust, Elena.

[02:25:20] Cause you know, still she’s doing all this cryptic, you know, shit that doesn’t need to be done. But she didn’t lead her astray.

[02:25:30] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[02:25:30] James: give her good, you know, a good thing to, and, and thankfully Celaena was smart enough to, recognize something, right? Um, and I mean, that’s how she ended up not going to the infirmary.

[02:25:51] Ka-Ce: Yeah. Thankfully she was, she wasn’t, subjugated to anything painful and, you know, having to take the antidote and[02:26:00]

[02:26:01] James: Yeah.

[02:26:01] Ka-Ce: instead it was Cain. Cain drank Belladonna and turned purple in the face. So that was great to read about.

[02:26:08] James: Right. Yeah. Um, nice to know that he doesn’t ace everything.

[02:26:14] Ka-Ce: Yes. Yes. It’s good to see him humbled. At least every now and then,

[02:26:20] James: Right. I feel like he’s just mad about it later though. He’s just like stupid, stupid test.

[02:26:26] Ka-Ce: Right? I mean poisons is a good thing to learn to have on hand, especially if you’re going to be sneaking around and assassinating people, you know, you’re not going to be killing them with swords and arrows and whatnot all the time. Sometimes you need a little bit more stealthy way. So this was a good, fun scene.

[02:26:49] we get a little bit of the drama. We also get like that tie in with Elena and Celaena realizing like, oh, she is actually trying to help me. Maybe I can start putting some trust in her.

[02:27:04] James: Yea, she’s on her side. At least, at least for now,

[02:27:10] Ka-Ce: We’ll see. We’ll see how that goes.

[02:27:12] James: yeah, it was a good, it was a good wrap up to, to, to seeing, you know, who, who is on what side, you know, and, and showing her again that she’s not completely on her own. She does have allies and friends, even with the other champions, if by nothing else the fact that they have a sole hatred for Cain,

[02:27:35] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[02:27:36] James: that makes them.

[02:27:38] Allies.

[02:27:40] Ka-Ce: Yes,

[02:27:41] James: It was good. No, I liked, I liked the way it went. Good chapter.

[02:27:46] Ka-Ce: Yes. Moving on to chapter 32. Nehemia and Celaena decide to cut their language lesson for the day short in order to take a stroll. They took turns practicing, you know, the common tongue in Eyllwe, [02:28:00] even though they both prefer Eyllwe, even if it was just, you know, to talk about things in private or to get the strange looks that people gave them when speaking in Eyllwe. Yulemas is a month away with the final test five days after that. Nehemia tells her that they’re friends, and when Celaena needs her, she will be there for her. Celaena, you know, is kind of taken aback and tells her, like, no one has called her a friend in a really long time. And it’s, it’s kind of a pivotal moment for the both of them,

[02:28:37] James: Mm hmm.

[02:28:38] Ka-Ce: for Celaena, who hasn’t had anyone in her corner in quite a long while. And Nehemia invites her to watch the Queen’s show that night with her, and Celaena regretfully has to decline because Celaena needs to be back in her room. You know, she can’t be at court. Nehemia knows, Nehemia knows they all have their secrets, but is curious to know why she is so closely watched by the captain and is locked in her rooms at night.

[02:29:10] Nehemia thinks that Chaol is afraid of Celaena, who

[02:29:15] James: I, I, I think he is too. She’s a strong independent woman.

[02:29:21] Ka-Ce: Who’s also very, very dangerous. This moment is so poignant, it almost makes you forget that one of them might be hiding secrets. Nehemia. Or both of them.

[02:29:32] James: How about everybody?

[02:29:35] Ka-Ce: Yes. Who is not holding a secret at this point? Raise your hand. It’s honestly a nice glimpse of Celaena letting her guard down, showing how much she values this newfound friendship. Nehemia’s sincerity and warmth shine, but there’s still the lingering question, how much of Nehemia’s kindness is genuine and how much is part of a larger plan? Because we do know [02:30:00] that she is hiding something. Celaena is also hiding a secret from Nehemia, you know, so they both, they both have something. Celaena remarks that Nehemia seems to be getting along better with the queen now, and Nehemia tells her it’s in Eyllwe’s best interest if she makes nice with the queen. So,

[02:30:23] James: I mean, does it really though? The queen doesn’t really have any, we’ve established the queen doesn’t really have any real power or like,

[02:30:37] Ka-Ce: I believe, we believe that the queen has no power, but I think at this point, Nehemia doesn’t know that the queen doesn’t really have sway with the king. So, if she makes nice with the queen, then maybe she’ll be able to get on the king’s good side.

[02:30:55] James: that’s a good point.

[02:30:58] Ka-Ce: so, during their walk, they wind up at the kennels, um, where Dorian and his new puppies are. There are four puppies in total, one by itself, as it doesn’t like people. Same puppy, same. Dorian and Celaena fight about the treatment of this puppy, and He finally agrees that he won’t have it killed and will arrange a home for it. Just because Celaena asks him to. Nehemia watches how close the two get to each other, before Dorian tells Nehemia that she needs to go get ready and get dressed for her evening with the queen. Nehemia asked Celaena to walk back to her rooms with her. And once they are alone, Nehemia admits that there is a connection between Dorian and Celaena and, you know, questions her girl to girl. Do you like him?

[02:31:52] James: Ooh, la la.

[02:31:54] Ka-Ce: Celaena denies it. Left and right, because of [02:32:00] course she does, she’s not ready to admit anything, and then they part ways. Celaena notices that her own guards follow at a respectful distance away, and that distance seems to be growing longer and longer. She wonders if Chaol has anything to do with it. On her way to her room, she stops at a window in the castle, and, you know, is contemplative, is looking outside, and she notices something shift in the reflection of the window.

[02:32:29] Whirling around, She confronts a man standing behind her, who other than Cain, because, of course. Cain is panting. His mouth is opening and closing like a fish fresh from water. His dark eyes are wide, hand around his throat. She hoped that he’s choking to death because what better way, you know, for him to end. But no, he’s glancing all around. He’s frantic. The grip on his throat tightens. And, And there we get another mention of the black ring on his finger. And again, he somehow manages to put on an additional 10 pounds of muscles in the past few days. In fact, Every single time that Celaena has seen him, he has seemed to have gotten bigger.

[02:33:28] James: That right there, that ain’t right.

[02:33:31] Ka-Ce: no, no, something definitely fishy is going on. Like a jackrabbit, Cain takes off down the hall faster than he should have been able to given his size. And Celaena is just like, What the fuck? Like, what was that all about? She waits until he’s gone before she rushes to her rooms. She sends a message to Nox and Pelor to not leave their rooms that night and don’t answer the door [02:34:00] for anyone,

[02:34:01] James: Yeah. Somebody could get murdled like,

[02:34:04] Ka-Ce: right? Yeah, no, that, that was, out of all the weird strangeness from Cain, that was definitely the strangest by far that we’ve seen.

[02:34:16] James: I want to know if, if. had been anybody but her, if, if they would have ended up dead,

[02:34:25] Ka-Ce: Hmm, maybe. Maybe.

[02:34:27] James: something about her that she has to make it to the end. And so like the, he was instructed to not do anything to her or something, you know, um, cause it just seems odd that, that he would just run.

[02:34:48] I mean, obviously he had something else going on, but it just still seems odd that,

[02:34:56] Ka-Ce: I got the sense like there was like this internal struggle, like, you know, we just had that scene with Perrington having the shadows, his eyes going black, almost as if he was communicating or something was communicating or taking over him. I got the sense that that was happening to Cain.

[02:35:14] James: So maybe it was fighting it and, and losing.

[02:35:17] Ka-Ce: Yeah, like he was trying to stay in control, but whatever it was really wanted to communicate with him or take over him. Um, and he just. You know, yeah, was losing the control and he just like, maybe he saw Celaena and was like, Oh God, the one person that can knock me out and make this stop.

[02:35:42] James: Hmm.

[02:35:43] Ka-Ce: But she was too like, die, bitch, die, like, please choke and kill yourself. also like, what do I do? Because you’re not acting normal. And so he was just like, crap and ran for it, you [02:36:00] know, like, Oh, there’s so many. Different theories and things

[02:36:06] James: true.

[02:36:07] Ka-Ce: Heh heh heh

[02:36:08] James: Well, yeah, I mean, you just, you don’t know who’s in charge of what and who’s doing what and who’s killing who. And we just know that there’s something weird with Perrington. We know there’s something really weird with Cain. Um, but you know, up to this point, that’s all we’ve got. Is, is general, is general weirdness, like, there’s nothing really concrete yet about the murders or anything,

[02:36:39] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[02:36:39] James: um, it just, for a character who has been so openly antagonistic towards her, it would be very strange to turn around and see him acting this way and then running off instead of acting weird and then, you know, attacking.

[02:36:57] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[02:36:58] James: Um, and that, you know, if I was her, I would be like, put up your Dukes and he’s running and we are not chasing,

[02:37:07] Ka-Ce: No.

[02:37:09] James: you know, yeah, that’s how. Um, so yeah, general weirdness all around

[02:37:17] Ka-Ce: Definitely.

[02:37:17] James: and weirdness, it doesn’t stop. Like, um, so we’re rounding into chapter 33 and we’re back on Kaltain and poor girl. She is suffering.

[02:37:33] She’s got the horrible headaches, and the only relief she gets is from her pipes, and, um, Of course, you know, while she’s trying to get some of that sweet relief, Perrington announces himself and she’s got to rush into the dressing room to change and spray on a bunch of perfume so that she doesn’t smell like opium.

[02:37:55] Ka-Ce: I would think, though, that the perfume would just bring on those headaches even [02:38:00] more.

[02:38:00] James: Oh, definitely. And, you know. I think that’s one of those things that people have it’s when they try to deceive themselves. It’s like people who just smoke in general, you know, you sit there and you think, Oh, yeah, I’ll just like air this out and I’ll spray a little whatever. And it clings and, you know, opium, especially if it’s coming out of a pipe.

[02:38:21] It’s going to cling to everything, your skin, your hair, like she’s not fooling anybody, but she thinks that she is, you know, but opium is also a highly addictive drug. It messes with your head like big time.

[02:38:41] Ka-Ce: think we’re going to see that, too, in this chapter.

[02:38:44] James: so, so Perrington looks like he’s ready for battle, which is an odd way to describe somebody who’s announcing themselves into a lady’s quarters.

[02:38:57] Ka-Ce: Yes.

[02:38:59] James: I’ve come to fight you. Um, why?

[02:39:03] Ka-Ce: Why?

[02:39:07] James: I brought my spear.

[02:39:09] Ka-Ce: Yeah, you did.

[02:39:11] James: Um,

[02:39:12] Ka-Ce: Wrong person.

[02:39:15] James: so Kaltain notes that the world is foggy around the edges. Her body feels heavy. And when she looks at him in the eyes, a piece of the world kind of like slips away. But then when, upon the release of her hand, the walls of the room appeared, then the floor and the ceiling, and she felt like she was trapped in a box.

[02:39:40] So there is definitely something happening here. Are we looking at the side effects of the opium? Or are we looking at the side effects of Perrington’s ring? Or Perrington? Like, [02:40:00] we still don’t actually really know what is the deal with like,

[02:40:05] Ka-Ce: The rings, or anything. See, and I don’t know what the side effects of opium are. Like, I’ve never looked into it. Never really had a need to.

[02:40:18] James: I’m telling you right now. It’s bad juju. Um, I can tell you light effects of opium. Um,

[02:40:31] it affects your nervous system.

[02:40:34] Ka-Ce: Wow,

[02:40:35] James: it slows down the stuff between your brain and the rest of your body. it can cause a lot of pleasure sensors because it opioid opium is the same as opioids. So it’s like an upper with a very strong down. but it’s, uh, um, highly addictive and, and it is one of those things that you use it and then you use again, but the same amount doesn’t quite do what the previous amount did.

[02:41:10] And so then every time you take it, you’ve got to take a little more and a little more and a little more. Um, so. You know, it could be her, and that’s the thing, you don’t know, her, her perception of the room and everything right now. It could be because of the opium, but it could also be because of something else.

[02:41:38] Ka-Ce: We will never know.

[02:41:44] James: so we find out that Perrington didn’t see her at dinner, he wanted to come in and check on her, or did he?

[02:41:54] he, he keeps talking, but she can’t concentrate. Her [02:42:00] skin seems to harden, glaze over. Or sorry, his skin seems to harden and glaze over his eyes are just these unforgiving orbs. His throat looks like carved marble. I think girl’s losing her mind. Honestly.

[02:42:16] Ka-Ce: It almost sounds like he’s turning into a gargoyle

[02:42:19] James: It kind of does actually, huh?

[02:42:21] Ka-Ce: in front of her eyes. But again, like, is she trippin on the opium? Or is he projecting something? Or is he actually transforming

[02:42:31] James: Or is it both? Like, In her heightened opium, you know, addled state, is she perceiving

[02:42:41] Ka-Ce: things?

[02:42:42] James: you know? Um, Perrington then makes noise about Lillian and Dorian being together. Kaltain doesn’t like it, and she just, all she knows is that she needs to get Dorian away from Lillian. And she knows that Perrington can help. Celaena is in her chambers. She’s studying more about the wyrdmark theories when her door creaks open. The hinges squealing loud enough to wake the dead because they finally, they finally work.

[02:43:14] Ka-Ce: Well, why do they only work when Nehemia is entering, but It doesn’t when Dorian does make it make sense.

[02:43:22] James: Yeah. Plot device. They needed her to be awake. Yeah, Nehemia comes in, she’s all in gold, but her eyes are on the floor, rivers running down her cheeks, and there’s a piece of paper in her hand. A legion of Ar Ar A Shit. Adarlan’s army captured 500 Eyllwe rebels hiding in the border of Oakwald Forest and the Stone Marshes.

[02:43:54] The rebels were to go to Calaculla as prisoners of war. Some of [02:44:00] the rebels tried to escape, and as retaliation, the soldiers killed everyone, even the children. And, Nehemia rushes to Celaena’s arms and wept, and Celaena just holds her because, I mean, what do you say in, That situation,

[02:44:18] Ka-Ce: there’s nothing you can say just that is so just devastating. You know, especially since we know that Nehemia helps the rebels and, you know, she loves her people. She wants to protect her people. And this is just devastating. Like who attacks children? Who kills children? Punish the rebels. Yes. Punish the adults.

[02:44:44] That’s one thing. But.

[02:44:46] James: yeah, why, why do you have to wipe out all of them

[02:44:50] Ka-Ce: Yeah,

[02:44:50] James: I mean, that is just, that’s cruel, beyond cruel,

[02:44:56] Ka-Ce: yeah,

[02:44:57] James: um, and then, of course, you know, that’s where we’re ending it today.

[02:45:03] Ka-Ce: of course, on a very, very, uh, hard, depressing, uh,

[02:45:09] James: And they all died, and that’s the end of chapter 33.

[02:45:17] Um, yeah, so this wraps up chapters 27 through 33 of Throne of Glass. And we covered so much, um, yes, so much.

[02:45:32] Ka-Ce: There was a lot, there was so much in these chapters.

[02:45:35] James: Yea, there was definitely a lot to go over. And honestly, there was probably so much that we still haven’t, you know, you just have to read it for yourself, honestly, because there’s a lot going on. Um, But yeah, what are your thoughts?

[02:45:51] What are your theories, your ideas? You know, did we, did we touch on, all the stuff that was worth noting, [02:46:00] did we miss something? Do you think we got something completely wrong? I mean, it’s possible. If there is something, let us know, you can let us know in the comments on the YouTube video, or you can get on any of our Uh, social channels and, and just write a comment and say, Hey, you were wrong, you know, or send us an email, um, to, [email protected]. We want to just say, thank you so much, You know, for listening and joining us again, we appreciate it. And next week we will be discussing chapters 34 through 40.

[02:46:52] Ka-Ce: We’ll plan on some more action, some more drama, we can’t wait. and please remember to like, subscribe, comment. Your ratings and likes do mean a lot to us and if you like what you hear so far, we ask that you please share with your friends and family. And you can, again, check us out on TikTok and Instagram. As we head out, please don’t forget to give some love to our friends over at K911 ResQ.

[02:47:23] They are just one of the best rescues out there. K911 ResQ is devoted to cats and dogs that people often look over because they are senior or handicapped or, you know, have special needs and they just. They try their best trying to find these wonderful animals homes. Right now, they are trying to help a dog, Crescent, who is currently fighting, you know, an upper respiratory infection.

[02:47:50] She is getting better with her antibiotics, but she still does need her vaccines, and she needs to get spayed. They’re waiting on the spay until her [02:48:00] upper respiratory infection is cleared. She’s a beautiful, gorgeous, good girl. So if you can, please head over to their website or to their socials and make a donation.

[02:48:11] They do have PayPal, Zelle, and Venmo and just Every little bit helps, even a dollar. Everybody donated a dollar, we could cover her spay and her vet bills. If you are looking to adopt, foster, volunteer, please go to K911ResQ.Com and we will link them in the show notes.

[02:48:35] James: Alright, sounds good, and we will see you guys next time.