Ep 3 Throne of Glass: Ch. 14 – 20

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[00:00:21] James: Hello, and welcome to Books, Cats, and Chaos. I am James.

[00:00:29] Ka-Ce: And I’m Ka-Ce, and we are a husband and wife team who love all things books, cats, and the chaos in between.

[00:00:38] James: That we do. And yeah, Chaos is the name of the game apparently, so if there are any, uh, issues with this recording. You guys will know why it’s been a challenge trying to get this stupid thing up. Let me tell you. But anyway, that’s a problem for a different day. We are going to be diving into chapters 14 through 20 of Throne of Glass by Sarah J.

[00:01:09]Maas. This is the first book of the Throne of Glass series. And just as a reminder, this is my first time reading through the series of books. I am still currently only on the Heir of Fire because I’ve been busy. But luckily we’re not talking about that one, so it’s fine. Uh, there won’t be any spoilers with, uh, ACOTAR or Crescent City or anything else that she’s done. Cuz I’ve watched all the memes, and I have read none of the books. Except for, you know this one that we’re doing right now. Um, so yeah, just Throne of Glass.[00:02:00]

[00:02:00] Ka-Ce: All right. And as a content reminder, this podcast is for mature audiences. So we are adults who like to use adult words, uh, when discussing adult themes and content. So if you have any little ones about, please save this podcast for later and come back to us when, when you can.

[00:02:22] James: or put your headphones on. Um, so they can’t hear cause you know, why mess that on a good time when, uh, when you don’t have to, I mean,

[00:02:33] Ka-Ce: True.

[00:02:34] James: I mean, that’s how I figure it. Right. You know, that’s what headphones are for. Not these big old clunkers though. Put your AirPods in. Don’t be a heathen. If you haven’t already, uh, but you like what you hear so far, uh, please don’t forget to rate, subscribe, comment on this podcast and give us a follow on social media.

[00:02:55]We are still building our channels. Uh, you know, we are in the process of doing a lot of this because this is a brand new venture for us. We have no existing user base, no existing, uh, anything. We are very much still under construction, but we do have an Instagram channel. We do have a YouTube channel that will have stuff on it soon.

[00:03:23]We do have a TikTok channel and we do have a website that will hopefully be finished in the next week or two. So, there will be plenty of places for you to give us some comments, some feedback, anything of that sort of nature. We will eventually be moving over, maybe hopefully to Patreon at some point, so if there is something that you’d like to see.

[00:03:52]You know, let us know what you would possibly be willing to want to subscribe to see, um,[00:04:00]

[00:04:01] Ka-Ce: Also, you can email us or, you know, DM us leave comments, any, Throne of Glass theories or topics that you would like us to discuss in an upcoming episode. We are trying to keep this spoiler free, mainly for James, since he hasn’t finished this series yet. But yes, definitely reach out to us. We will, you know, we would love to hear your theories and your thoughts.

[00:04:28] James: and we do have a brand spanking new email that you can send us stuff on. It’s hello@bookscatsandchaos.com. Like she said, anything that you want us to talk about or questions or anything like that, send it to the email and we will try to work it into a future episode. Uh, may not be the next episode, but we’ll try and get to it in some way or another.

[00:04:53]So now that we’re done with all of that good nonsense, let’s move on to the actual story. So, like I said, we’re going through chapters 14 through 20. Uh, we’ll do a quick recap, uh, just to remind everybody where we are. Part of this is for me, too.

[00:05:17]Starting off, we are cue the training montage. Over the next several days, Celaena is training like the queen boss she is. You know, no surrender, never give up, doesn’t know when to stop. Um, but she’s doing it. And she’s waking up before dawn to work out in her room before she goes on her runs with Chaol.

[00:05:45]Because she doesn’t want him to look down on her. Um, and she’s pretty much tired of his you know, snarkiness. Probably having something to do with her barfing on the last test run, you know, um, even though he didn’t say anything [00:06:00]there was judgment there, you know, there was. No, not from our boy. Chaol. No, there probably was I

[00:06:08] Ka-Ce: always judgment from Chaol.

[00:06:11] James: know as soon as I said it I knew I knew it was

[00:06:14] Ka-Ce: Yeah, you just hang your head.

[00:06:16] James: Yeah, pretty much but she deserved it but it. Anyway, she’s training, she’s trying to, to make up for the lost time, basically, that, uh, she’s gotta get herself back into gear here, because the, the, the first test was just a way to show her, basically, that, uh, she’s not ready for this. And she needs to get ready for this, right?

[00:06:45]Um, so they’re, they’re honing and refining their skills, or her skills, with various weapons. But of course, something happens right before the first test, because why not, right? I mean, that’s just the way things happen. One of the champions before anything even happens, one of the champions is murdered and, and he’s murdered in a pretty gruesome way.

[00:07:10]Well, I mean, we find that out later, but, um, poor dude got to the castle, went on one run and then got murdled like poor dude, right? Well, not really. I mean, he was not a great guy. But anyway,

[00:07:26] Ka-Ce: The murderer got murdered.

[00:07:28] James: yeah, it was Bill Chastain, the eye eater. So, I mean, if anybody’s going to get murdled, it’s gonna, I did not feel bad about that one for sure.

[00:07:38] Ka-Ce: No, that was definite, that was definite karma right there.

[00:07:43] James: um, so of course. Details are low, but everyone’s got to keep training because the tests don’t stop. Chaol and his guards are trying to investigate the murder. But everyone’s very tight lipped about it. Not a lot of details going on. [00:08:00]Then we come up to test day. Uh, everyone is nervous. They’re gathered in the training room.

[00:08:06]They don’t know what’s going on. Half of the room is curtained off and behind that curtain is their test. What is the test? I know I didn’t know what to expect from this. I mean, they went on a jog for their 1st test. So what’s the 2nd test going to be? I thought maybe it would be dueling. Um, you know, but we’re going to see what it is.

[00:08:29]Right? So they, they know also, um, there are sponsors and spectators, people who want to make sure that, you know, their sponsors and their, uh, uh, investments are paying off. Right? Um, And then we see what the first test is and lo and behold, it’s archery. Five targets, different distances to test your, you know, your ability.

[00:08:58]And what is the very first thing that Chaol tells, tells Celaena?

[00:09:04]Don’t show off. And she’s like, mother effer. Don’t tell me what to do. And, and he’s like, middle, middle of the road. Celaena of course does well, not as well as she could have. But probably still a little better than Chaol wanted. So they go through the whole thing, we have a training montage, and she continues training, continues running, continues to throw up, continues to get judged by Chaol.

[00:09:38]But, you know, they’re, they’re sort of Uh, starting to communicate now a little bit, they’re sharing some history with each other. And you see sort of this closeness starting to develop and then just the smallest amounts of, you know, um, [00:10:00]the next thing we’ve got is, um, they’re back. Uh, in their, in the champion sort of meeting. Training area and Brullo is going over, um,

[00:10:14]over different weapons when one of the champions, Sven, decides that this is not for him and he decides to make a break for it. So he does and instantly, boom, arrow, he gone.

[00:10:27]Celaena and Nox and Nox is one of the other champions that Celaena kind of connects with a little bit because he seems like he’s a little out of place to be there. They’re both like, whoa, like, they’re not, they’re not messing around. Prince Dorian now comes in, enters the chat, right? Uh, at his mom, mother, queen insistence, he finds himself, he’s dressed up, he’s at court, he’s bored, this s*** ain’t for him.

[00:10:57]Uh, he’s given a list of suitors to choose from, and, you know, he’s over this, like, he wants nothing to do with all of these pretty dressed up, you know, no can’t think for themselves, uh, court ladies, just, it’s not happening. So he slips out, finds himself, uh, going to one of the training rooms. In there, he finds Celaena sparring, her guards, and Princess Nehemia watching and clapping.

[00:11:29]And of course, he being the, uh,

[00:11:32]Don’t know what you want to the show off, uh, you know, boy, man, flirt that he is,

[00:11:38] Ka-Ce: Man flirt?

[00:11:38] James: You know, I don’t know.

[00:11:40]I just imagined him coming in and he’s like, what’s going on here? Oh, training. Hey, what? Oh, Oh, what’s up? Yeah. Well, you’re training over there, huh? Nice. I can do that. That’s just, that’s how I see it.

[00:11:54]Okay. Um, I’m sorry. Dorian is going to get a lot of s*** [00:12:00]from me throughout, throughout the most of this story because character’s developing, but, but, okay. So he’s flirting, but He ends up finding himself doing a duel, not a duel, but teaching Nehemia

[00:12:19]sword fighting, um, so he was kind of derailed in his efforts, um, but, you know, she’s the guest in the castle, he’s gonna play nice. Chaol comes in, joins them, tells Celaena to go back to her room, because she’s got to rest before the next test, and she’s just like, bro F you.

[00:12:43]The story switches, and now we’re focused on Lady Kaltain, and we’re discovering a little bit more about what she’s doing. And she is messing around, and, and before even anything’s going on, I, you know, we’re seeing that she’s, she is making gambles that, that could be good. potentially not pay off for her, um, in any sort of, uh, good way.

[00:13:14]But this is the game of the court lady, you know? She wants to do more. She wants to be more. She doesn’t want to be resigned to just being an arm piece for somebody, right? I mean, I remember reading through this and I was just like, girl, this is,

[00:13:33] Ka-Ce: Dangerous territory.

[00:13:35] James: is not going to end well, uh, you know, um, but so she’s been watching Dorian, um, she’s got her eyes set on him. And obviously because he’s the prince and she would like to have some sort of power and she’d like to get away from Duke Perrington. Cause that dude’s bad news and the Duke [00:14:00]obviously is wanting to get what she promised him. Which is her body and this is the gamble that we see because she was willing to bet that she could get what she needed first before she had to get, uh, before she had to pay up.

[00:14:21]Um, that’s a wager I would not want to be taking. Be making,

[00:14:26] Ka-Ce: Nope, definitely not.

[00:14:28] James: know, um, Kaltain tries to fish for more information on Lady Lillian, you know, getting some backstory, not getting very successful. Um, the Duke tells her that he’ll tell her more later before he goes off to do some things, but it’s, you know, still very much up in the air.

[00:14:49]Kind of feels like he’s stalling. Chaol then warns Dorian about Celaena, basically, you know, don’t get too close to her because she’s still an assassin. And Dorian is like, bro, back off. I know what I’m doing. I’m the prince. Mind your business. And Chaol’s just like bro. And all the while Chaol still can’t figure out why or how or who or what

[00:15:17]killed the eyeball eater, dude. Um, like why him? He was one of the nastiest guys in the tournament. Why was he the first one to go? You know? Um,

[00:15:31] Ka-Ce: Maybe that was why, because he was the nastiest.

[00:15:37] James: I did not think that he was going to be the first one to go. Obviously. Uh, or I mean, honestly, like that was kind of, that was a surprise. It was like, like they introduced this guy as the eye eater and you’re like, Oh s***, he’s going to be a problem later. And then. No,

[00:15:54] Ka-Ce: We should deep dive that during that chapter.

[00:15:57] James: like, like he dead. Yeah. You’re like, oh, [00:16:00]okay. So, so no eyeballs are getting eaten apparently because,

[00:16:03] Ka-Ce: Right? I, I, yeah, I’ll save it for the other chapter, but I, I thought there was going to be more to his character in all honesty.

[00:16:13] James: He got this introduction.

[00:16:15] Ka-Ce: hmm.

[00:16:15] James: And then the next, like, couple pages, its like, yeah, he dead. You’re just like, okay,

[00:16:22] Ka-Ce: He rolled a one.

[00:16:23] James: he,

[00:16:26] Ka-Ce: He rolled a negative one.

[00:16:27] James: He rolled, no, he, he flat out, you know, yeah, he rolled a one and then the DM said, you know what, roll again, just as an, and he, and he did, he rolled another one just because, and they’re like, there’s nothing we can do for you now. Your insides are getting eaten bro, like.

[00:16:47] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:16:48] James: And that is how, you know, the rise and fall of the eye eater never got to see the potential that he thought he’d see in the castle.

[00:16:59]Sad day for him, not for us. Um, so of course, while all of this is going on, Celaena is trying to distract herself with something else. So she starts playing with the pianoforte. And she finds herself getting lost in memories and feelings, particularly, um, about her life before she was captured and put in the mines.

[00:17:24]We still don’t have a lot of insight into that at this point, um, but it’s coming. Sort of. She is so engrossed in this that she doesn’t even notice when Dorian comes and, and sits, you know, with her. He’s just, you know, a surprise that an assassin can do this, you know, and also surprised that she didn’t notice that he came in.

[00:17:53]Um, even though he told her he was coming. Things don’t go the way that he thinks it was going to go. So then he [00:18:00]leaves, and as he’s leaving, he comes to find out that Celaena had loved and lost a man named Sam 13 months ago, right before she was captured. And we find out that this is all tied together.

[00:18:13]So he doesn’t really know what to do with this information. And then he goes back, takes the list of the potential lady, uh, suitors. Is it still suitors sutresses? I don’t know. No, it’s not. It’s not sutures. That is, that is something else. Um, he burns the list that, that his mom was like, pick somebody.

[00:18:37]And he’s like, no, I’m not gonna like, just he’s over it. He can’t get the Celaena’s playing of the music out of his head because to him it was so sad and filled with just raw emotion and he is now seeing another side of the assassin. Like, she’s not just an assassin, she’s She’s a girl, a person, you know, um, so, okay, that was a very long recap uh, by me.

[00:19:15] Ka-Ce: You know, the chapters are fairly short, but I feel like They have so much in them.

[00:19:20] James: yeah, there’s a lot actually that, that, uh, I mean, even this, I feel like I was really skimming through a lot of the stuff that happened, you know, like, because you obviously, if you go into much more detail, you might as well just read the book,

[00:19:37] Ka-Ce: yeah.

[00:19:38] James: you know, but there is so much more that does happen. And I mean, this is, you know, a good number of chapters, six chapters, but at the same time.

[00:19:50]Yeah. This, there’s, this is still not even, like, everything that went on.

[00:19:55] Ka-Ce: Yeah. All right. Well, thank you for the [00:20:00]recap. Let us go ahead and deep dive into chapter 14. So we have, Celaena, you know, she’s doing her training montage, as we like to call it. Um, using whatever she has in her room to help exercise. You know, I’m thinking squats and push ups and weights with the, the billiards.

[00:20:19]And everything, the Q Sticks. And then she eats breakfast with Chaol. And then they go for a run. And I have an issue with this. And, and, you know. This is just from my personal experience when, you know, when we were training, like, for our half marathon, um, we both can’t eat. We both can’t eat anything or drink anything before we go on a morning run, jog.

[00:20:45] James: Nope.

[00:20:48] Ka-Ce: there are people that do, and that’s great for them. We both have figured out that we can’t because, one, morning poops. We, we don’t want to be stuck outside somewhere having to have poops. To go morning poops and not having a place to do it. Two, we’re both just not morning people and, and we’re just not awake.

[00:21:11]We are barely struggling to get out the door,

[00:21:14] James: And I literally don’t want food

[00:21:17] Ka-Ce: bouncing around in

[00:21:18] James: that early in the morning, like, before, uh, before a run. Like, it is literally the last thing on my mind.

[00:21:25] Ka-Ce: Yeah, no. Like I, I understand the importance of fueling your body, uh, before burning that energy, but I don’t want something in my stomach that’s going to be sitting there like bouncing with that movement, you know? And so when I, when I was reading this and the next couple of chapters of all of her training montages, where she’s working out and she eats.

[00:21:48]And I get that because after working out any type of workout, you’re hungry. You need to fuel, you need to eat the carbs. But she eats and then she goes on a run and she’s trying to keep pace with [00:22:00]Chaol. Like when I try to keep pace with you, of course I’m gonna get sick because I’m a shorty. My short little legs have a hard time keeping up with you and you know, when you run at my pace, you’re basically walking.

[00:22:15]I, I like, I just kind of wanted to reach through the book and like strangle her and be like, stop eating before your runs. Do your run and then eat. And then go to the weapons training.

[00:22:28] James: Mm-Hmm.

[00:22:29] Ka-Ce: But anyways, that was, that,

[00:22:31] James: Yeah. No,

[00:22:32] Ka-Ce: little take.

[00:22:34] James: and she keeps puking and it’s like, maybe you shouldn’t eat because you keep throwing it up anyway.

[00:22:41] Ka-Ce: yeah, and that’s not good for your body either. Like, you’re not maintaining any of the nutrients at that point. That’s doing your body more harm.

[00:22:53] James: So yeah, I can’t, uh, there’s just no way that I could eat the way she eats and then go for a run because I also would be puking my guts out. Like, it, it just

[00:23:06] Ka-Ce: no,

[00:23:06] James: I don’t get it.

[00:23:08] Ka-Ce: No I don’t either.

[00:23:11]I know. Like for the longer runs that we have done, we’ve had like the energy gummies, um, and the gels and stuff. I know in this world, they don’t have that, but I would think bringing like some sort of nuts or something on a run would be better than eating a full breakfast.

[00:23:32]And then running and then puking, but she is somehow making progress. She is able to go farther and then puke, but still like, um,

[00:23:45] James: Not a good time.

[00:23:46] Ka-Ce: no, no. And, and after puking, the last thing I want to do is go and train with weapons like,

[00:23:53] James: No, right? No, I don’t want to, I don’t want to go and do anything after I throw up except for lay down and, and, [00:24:00]and wish for sweet death. I hate the act of throwing up. It, it is such a just, just the whole body thing. Just. No, couldn’t. Nope, couldn’t. And I guess that’s why I wouldn’t make it as a champion, because

[00:24:21] Ka-Ce: You and me both.

[00:24:22] James: throw up once and then be like, guys, I’m out.

[00:24:25]I’m out. I’m going home. I’m going back to prison because I can’t do this.

[00:24:31] Ka-Ce: I would be utterly useless. After working out in my room and then going for a run and then having to go and train with weapons my limbs would be useless. I would be Yeah, pretty much. I would be so rubbery and

[00:24:47] James: if you guys want to see what I was doing, you’ll have to watch the YouTube video

[00:24:51] Ka-Ce: it. Yeah, it was pretty,

[00:24:52] James: because otherwise all you hear is, “Eh, eh.”,

[00:24:57] Ka-Ce: You’re so weird. All right. So then, Chaol always joins her for lunch. So he eats breakfast and lunch with her. And then they do a couple more hours of training with Brullo. And that’s just to make sure that everybody can use the weapons. And she’s getting irritated, you know, because Cain is getting all of the praise for everything. And she is staying in that middle, middle ground and she’s hating it. You know, she’s used to being the star of the show when she was at the Assassin’s Guild and, and now she can’t be the star of the show here.

[00:25:37] James: She’s like, damn it, Chaol. I’m not a mid. And Chaol’s like, you’re whatever I say you are.

[00:25:42] Ka-Ce: And that’s gotta be so grating, like, damn men.

[00:25:50] James: He’s just doing his job.

[00:25:52] Ka-Ce: I know. But he could do his job and not be irritating.[00:26:00]

[00:26:00] James: I guess.

[00:26:01] Ka-Ce: That’s wishful thinking. All right. So now we finally get to their first actual test and Celaena knows that something is wrong. Chaol doesn’t join her for breakfast or the morning run or even for the weapons training. She gets to the training hall, and she’s, you know, staying by herself, staying near a pillar, just watching everybody.

[00:26:27]And Brullo is late, and, this is just really, really odd. So Nox Owen, the young thief from Peranth, comes up to her and asks her if she knows if anything’s going on. And she tells him just what she thinks, you know, Captain Chaol didn’t join her, so there must be something.

[00:26:50] James: Cause he’s been attached to her hip, like, you know,

[00:26:54] Ka-Ce: like, I would say they’re buddy buddies, but he doesn’t want to be buddy buddies

[00:26:59] James: I was going to, I was going to say like, he comes rolling in in the morning, like, Hey, bestie, let’s go for a run. Except that they’re not besties. She hates him. And he’s just like, Oh God, her again. But you know,

[00:27:11] Ka-Ce: I think she wants to be friends with Chaol, and Chaol is still holding her out, you know, like, arm’s distance, like, no, you’re a criminal, you’re an assassin, still.

[00:27:20] James: Right? Cause he’s, you know, the, the captain of the guard and he’s so high and mighty and, you know, untouched by the world and then we find out

[00:27:36] Ka-Ce: pretty posh

[00:27:37] James: yeah well then we find out his family’s F***ed up.

[00:27:40]Regardless

[00:27:44] Ka-Ce: Nox also admits that he is also feeling kind of invisible, much like Celaena is. You know, he’s, they’re not getting the attention from Brullo. And they, they happen to look over at Cain. And here is my, what I’m calling, or I guess I’m going to start calling like the Blackwatch.[00:28:00]

[00:28:00]Because we’ve noticed that a couple people have the black obsidian eyes. And now we see that Cain has a large, black, iridescent, iridescent stone on his finger. And Celaena notes this is weird because why would you wear jewelry to training? Especially when you’re surrounded by other thieves and assassins and murderers and stuff.

[00:28:23]That just feels like you’re calling attention to yourself,

[00:28:26] James: Or if you’re like me and you want to wear your ring and you go running your finger swells up to the point where you can’t get the damn thing off. So all jewelry comes off before you exercise in any peck capacity because That s*** hurts once it gets a little tight on the, you know? I mean, obviously I’m not big and hulking like some of these guys are, but still no jewelry.

[00:28:56] Ka-Ce: No, no, I, yeah, firm believer in not wearing my jewelry when exercising. I just, I made a note. Do you think there’s anything else going on or do you think it was just, she’s supposed to be this jewel thief and she happened to notice that he’s wearing a ring? Am I just obsessed with the color black?

[00:29:17]Hmm.

[00:29:20] James: know, it was pointed out for a reason. Um, I think at this point I hadn’t quite made any real connection with it yet other than I hadn’t made any connection about what the significance of the ring was, but I do remember reading it and thinking there’s something about the ring because he’s now what the 3rd person, right? We have Perrington who has 1 or is it just eyes?

[00:29:55] Ka-Ce: No, just their eyes that have been pointed out as being obsidian.[00:30:00]

[00:30:01] James: okay, maybe I was remembering wrong, but just, you know, it, it appeared to be, um, noteworthy. And, and without really knowing, you know, where it was going and actually, we don’t really even get the answers to that until much, much later. About the significance of, of this color, you know, this stone and the ring and the eyes and, you know, all that, but I do remember it being something like, okay, I’m going to keep an eye on this because, because there’s something, you know, and, and I had kind of tagged Cain as the, um,

[00:30:41] Ka-Ce: The one to watch out for.

[00:30:42] James: one, yeah, kind of the main antagonist for the competition.

[00:30:47]But also outside of the competition. Like I didn’t see him going away. I mean, I didn’t see the eye eater going away either, but, but Cain has this kind of importance around him where you look at him and you go, he, there’s, he’s not going to get caught off guard. He’s not, you know, they’re not going to find his body because you’d probably find the body of whatever tries to take him out.

[00:31:15]Like, you know what I mean? He just has that, um, danger level around him because you see him and you’re like, oh, he’s the big hulking, whatever, whatever, but then they go through the first couple, like sparrings and the test and you go, oh no, he’d be hulking. And he’s cunning and

[00:31:35] Ka-Ce: hmm.

[00:31:36] James: and, you know, that’s a dangerous combination when they’re big and smart.

[00:31:41] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:31:41] James: Um, so, you know, yeah, it, it, it was noteworthy, but I hadn’t made a connection at this point of, of why it was important, you

[00:31:55] Ka-Ce: Yeah. Wearing jewelry to me. Strange [00:32:00]when you’re working out. But some people do it.

[00:32:03] James: Not this guy, you

[00:32:04] Ka-Ce: Nope. So, Nox also points out that Verin, the loudmouthed thief, um, who has taken to being Cain’s lackey because, you know, all big, hulkin bully types have lackeys. He is by himself today and he’s kind of like pale and wide eyed and like he’s seen some s***.

[00:32:23]And we find out from Pelor, the youngest assassin that Bill Chastain, the Eye Eater, has been murdered. And like we kind of mentioned earlier, I kind of felt like he was kind of built up a little bit, like we got his full name, we got his, like, title, he is the Eye Eater, he is this notorious murderer, then we didn’t get anything from

[00:32:47] James: know, like

[00:32:50] Ka-Ce: I thought we were gonna get some stuff, like, I thought maybe he was gonna go and, and, murder people or try to murder Celaena or Nehemia or something.

[00:33:01]Like, I thought we were going to get some Eye Eater action out of this. And no, he’s the first one. That’s

[00:33:05] James: You know, it’s funny. This actually reminds me of not quite the same, but sort of similar. The there’s a, it’s an old movie called The Blob and it came out um, well, the first one came out in like the 1950s and then there was a remake that came out in 19, 80 or 1890 something. I don’t remember. Anyway, the movie 19, sorry, 19, 1980 or, or 1990 or something like that.

[00:33:34]And the movie starts out and you have the girl, this girl. It’s a classic like, um, takes place in, in, um, you know, I don’t know, before cell phones, right? And so they introduced the movie and you have the, the main girl character, you have the main guy character, and then you have another main guy character who’s sort of the like, [00:34:00]you know, the, the, um, you know, leather jacket with the hair and the, you know, like, oh, oh, you know, and you’re like, oh yeah, whatever, whatever.

[00:34:09]10 minutes into the movie, and you’re like, okay, we got the characters set up. You know, we got the, the mc and the MCF and the, or, you know, and the whatever, whatever. And then 15 minutes in the main character dies, he’s the second victim of the blob.

[00:34:27] Ka-Ce: Wow.

[00:34:28] James: And you’re watching the movie and you’re just like, what? And. And Mr. Mr. I’m too cool for my leather jacket guy actually becomes the MC, uh, with the, with the main female character lead.

[00:34:45] Ka-Ce: Oh, wow.

[00:34:46] James: It is, it is such a, like you watch the movie. You’re just like, what? That’s what that reminds me of. Like,

[00:34:57] Ka-Ce: Mm,

[00:34:58] James: Because it came out of nowhere.

[00:35:00] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:35:01] James: You got profession, name, crime, everything.

[00:35:05]And then four pages later, dead.

[00:35:10] Ka-Ce: Yeah. Because not every, not all of the champions were given names or titles or anything. It was, you know, there were certain few that got names and Yeah.

[00:35:22] James: Yeah.

[00:35:23] Ka-Ce: So, that was, that was just. That was funny to me. But I, I did like that we got to see Celaena start to develop a sort of friendship ish, maybe, something with Nox.

[00:35:38]You know, he kind of stuck with her for the rest of the day and they threw knives and she helped, helped him with his knife throwing. It was nice to see her connect to somebody else, not just talking to Dorian and Chaol.

[00:35:55] James: I was a little wary of Nox, to be honest, I was like, hmm, [00:36:00]it’s always,

[00:36:01] Ka-Ce: fishing

[00:36:02] James: it’s always the nice ones that you got to watch out for.

[00:36:06] Ka-Ce: yeah,

[00:36:06] James: Just, you know, I was a little wary.

[00:36:10] Ka-Ce: okay. What about Pelor? The young, the really, really young.

[00:36:15] James: Honestly, I didn’t even give him a second thought.

[00:36:19] Ka-Ce: I don’t think anybody did. This poor kid.

[00:36:23] James: Right? Authors like you’re small and scrawny and the readers like, yeah, that tracks

[00:36:34] Ka-Ce: We get a little bit of history of Dorian and Chaol. Uh, which is, you know, nice. Chaol opening up to Celaena moment. So we find out that Chaol is from Anielle, a city on the Silver Lake, and all of the citizens, um, of Anielle are warriors from birth. So it makes sense that Chaol, you know, trained to be a soldier, trained to be captain of the guard, but his father wanted him to pursue more of the, uh, The council member type role, kind of like a Duke Perrington,

[00:37:12] James: in political, he wanted his son to have some political, uh, I just don’t know what he was hoping to achieve with that because it’s not like Chaol would ever have any real political sway. Unless it was just a way of like, you need to go here, understand how this works. then

[00:37:32] Ka-Ce: I think to remain in the king’s good graces. So, you know, the king doesn’t come and annihilate and enslave everybody in, you know,

[00:37:41] James: that is true. He likes to do that.

[00:37:45] Ka-Ce: Yeah. Um, so yeah, we got this little bit of Chaol history and Dorian history that they grew up together, but you know, they’re about the same age. So they attended classes together and rough house together and [00:38:00]then, you know, Chaol turns it back around and asks Celaena about, about her and her youth and, and she, she retorts that she thought he didn’t want to know anything about her.

[00:38:15]Her parents are dead. They died when she was eight, she was born in Terrasen, she became an assassin, spent time at Endovier and now here she is. Um, we do find out that the scar on her right hand was self inflicted because of Arobynn Hamel, the king of the assassins. He told her that she had to either break her own hand or he would break it for her in order to force her to train with her left hand. And that’s just. What the f***?

[00:38:49] James: Couldn’t do it.

[00:38:50] Ka-Ce: Mm mm. And so she did she took it upon herself and she broke her own hand.

[00:38:55] James: I don’t think I could do it. Like I would be like, I really don’t want you to break my hand and I don’t think I can break my own hand. I…

[00:39:09] Ka-Ce: I okay, so I understand the thinking behind it, because you want to be able to train with your non dominant hand to make it as good as or better than your dominant hand. But to break it break your own hand, then you’re going to suffer with who knows what later on because things may not heal correctly, especially if they don’t have healers anymore or magic. What if a bone didn’t?

[00:39:35] James: that’s true. That’s a gamble. That was, but see the king of assassins, I mean, basically they’re, they’re going to be like, If you’re strong enough, you’ll pull through this, and if you don’t pull through this, well, then you weren’t strong enough.

[00:39:47] Ka-Ce: Yeah, that’s still bulls***.

[00:39:49] James: that’s literally the mindset though, you know? It,

[00:39:51] Ka-Ce: Yea. Wow.

[00:39:55] James: yeah, it’s on you. Like, either get better and, and do better, [00:40:00]or don’t and die, but that’s your fault. Not my fault.

[00:40:03] Ka-Ce: I mean, they could have like tied her hand down or something. It didn’t have to be broken. Men, they say women are the irrational, hormonal, emotional ones.

[00:40:16] James: Yeah, I don’t, I got nothing.

[00:40:18] Ka-Ce: Make it make sense.

[00:40:19] James: Have never broken a bone in my life, and I don’t intend to start

[00:40:24]at any point.

[00:40:25]I guess I’d suck as an assassin.

[00:40:26]I mean, what are you gonna do?

[00:40:28]Okay. So. Chapter 15.

[00:40:31]Celaena has been training just hardcore for the past five days. I mean, she’s, you know, doing her regimen of getting up in the morning, working out, going running. And then, uh, then there’s the training in the afternoon with the other champions. And, you know, she’s, I mean, this is like round the clock.

[00:40:51]She, she barely has time to even get back to her room and then just pass out, you know, um, and. She, she has an injury that she, you know, has been hiding. I mean, not an injury, it’s fatigue, like, you know, she’s sore and, and she doesn’t want to admit that she hurts. Um, like any person, you know, you get out there, you do a bunch of exercise and the next day you’re like, Oh, I feel pretty good.

[00:41:25]And then the next day you’re like, I’m a little sore. And then the third day you’re like, son of a bitch. I can’t, you know, so that’s where, you know, that’s where she’s at. She’s on day five of intense, hardcore training and her body. She, I mean, she’s 95 pounds, you know, after she’s, you know, Laid in a puddle and it’s, a lot for a person to do when, when they are literally, you know, nothing.

[00:41:57]I mean, She’s [00:42:00]still, she’s still recovering at this point. And so she’s, she’s trying to build and recover the same time. And that is not a sound way to, to do things.

[00:42:17]So, so we’re coming up to the very first test and Like I said, when I was reading through this, I was thinking that it was going to be like some sort of sparring event, uh, or something not very intense, um, because the first test was, you know, running. So I was,

[00:42:40] Ka-Ce: I don’t think the running was, like, I mean, it was a sort of test, but it wasn’t, like, an official test. It was, like, if you can’t keep up, you’re already out,

[00:42:48] James: yeah, but I, I kind of figured they were going to like, start off with like, because they have a couple of weeks to do or.

[00:42:55]Like what, two or three months to do this, right? Because it’s a couple of weeks until the Yule, Yuletide or Yulemas or whatever. And then it’s like two or three weeks after that, that the King is like, I’m going to make my decision or whatever

[00:43:09] Ka-Ce: I think, no, I think, um, Yulemas is when he makes the decision. Or, like, shortly after Yulemas. Yeah.

[00:43:18] James: so, but they basically have like, what, 10, To 12 weeks, right? To do all this, I think.

[00:43:24] Ka-Ce: Something like that. I would have to go back

[00:43:26] James: so to, for me, I was thinking, okay, so maybe they’re going to spend the first half of this doing like endurance tests to weed out the people who can’t keep up with things like the running or the, um, you know, just the, the basic, basic, basic, right?

[00:43:47]Like, uh, it’s like when you, you know, Uh, apply for a job at, you know, Walmart and they’re like, must be able to live 50 pounds. Like, you know, I, that’s what I was thinking [00:44:00]that the tests were going to be like that. Um, so I really, I really wasn’t sure. You know what to expect. Um, so yeah, they’re all going in.

[00:44:14]There’s a big black curtains. The competitors are there with their trainers and their sponsors. The there’s, um, up in the mezzanine, you know, there’s spectators and people who want to make sure that their investments are paying off the way that they think they should be. Because a lot of these people are prisoners.

[00:44:33]You know, or people that are down on their luck. Um, Chaol doesn’t like that Nox and Celaena are talking and

[00:44:45] Ka-Ce: Chaol doesn’t like anything Celaena does, let’s be honest.

[00:44:49] James: I mean, right. He’s like, Why are you breathing and she’s like, well, I have to breathe and, and he’s just like, well, could, could you breathe, you know, different because it’s annoying. That’s yeah, that’s just, that’s just how he’s acting, you know, at this point, like, what are you doing? I’m existing. Well, could you, could you do it differently? Cause. upsetting. Um, and I get it because, um, Chaol is looking at Nox, he’s competition, right? I mean, they’re competitors.

[00:45:30] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:45:30] James: like, well, what the hell?

[00:45:32]Why is she getting all chatty with him? Like, they’re, they’re going to be duking it out later.

[00:45:39] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:45:39] James: make any sense. And Celaena’s just like, bro, chill. I’m just chillin Talking with a dude who also hates being here,

[00:45:49] Ka-Ce: Right?

[00:45:50] James: you know, um, so, so Chaol’s like enough of that, get over here, blah, blah, blah. Um, [00:46:00]everyone’s like, what’s the test?

[00:46:01]What’s the test? What’s going on? Turns out it’s archery. Brullo announces the rules. It’s five targets scattered at different distances to make sure that they can do, you know, What they need to do. I mean, an assassin does need to hit a target, right? Um, five shots, one per target. The one with the worst aim goes home.

[00:46:23]Each person goes one at a time. Which is always kind of annoying because

[00:46:28] Ka-Ce: That takes a long time.

[00:46:29] James: a long time and the longer you wait, the more

[00:46:33] Ka-Ce: Anxious. And nervous.

[00:46:35] James: I get anxious. It’s like, ugh.

[00:46:37] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:46:39] James: Now I’m over it, you know, like

[00:46:41] Ka-Ce: Well, yeah. I mean, I remember, like, competing in Irish dance. Once you’re in championships, you go two or three at a time. And so you’re stuck waiting until it’s your round. And that was. The hardest part for me, I hated the waiting

[00:46:58] James: Mm hmm.

[00:46:59] Ka-Ce: nerves, like it, once you’re up there, you know, the adrenaline takes over, you dance, you’re fine, you walk off, but that initial waiting to me is the hardest part.

[00:47:13]And yeah, so I, I feel for her because she’s now at the back of the line, having to wait and watch everybody else shoot before her and, and I’m just an impatient person. Like, I don’t want to be last either. I don’t want to be last either.

[00:47:29] James: No get up there do your thing and then go and focus on something else. We’re like, okay I’m gonna go take a nap while the rest of you guys do your s*** like

[00:47:37] Ka-Ce: yeah.

[00:47:41] James: But I know that you know when we were going through this and The, the, you had said that you were kind of underwhelmed with the first test, like,

[00:47:53] Ka-Ce: A little bit, yeah. Like, I understand. Like, archery, okay. [00:48:00]So we have dabbled with archery. We’ve gone and taken a couple classes, and they’re fun, and you’re a better shooter than I

[00:48:07] James: I’m a, I’m hella good at archery.

[00:48:10] Ka-Ce: Yes, but I beat you with a shotgun and pistols,

[00:48:13] James: it’s a good thing that Celaena’s not using a shotgun then, huh?

[00:48:17] Ka-Ce: She would kick ass with a shotgun.

[00:48:19] James: she probably would.

[00:48:22] Ka-Ce: And so it is hard. Archery definitely does take practice and skill and everything, and a King’s Champion would have to be great with any weapon that they’re given, archery included, especially if they need to take somebody out from far away. I guess because they built her up so much as an assassin and now she has to compete with other assassins and murderers and soldiers, I was expecting something more? Like, instead of just a standard archery shot, like, yes, here are five different distances, you only have one shot each. Yes, that is hard because, you know, it sometimes takes you a while to warm up and to get those, uh, to get your aim and accuracy and everything. I was expecting like an obstacle course of some sort maybe?

[00:49:19]I don’t know, something to like jazz up the competition.

[00:49:22] James: Mm,

[00:49:23] Ka-Ce: Like ninja style, ninja warrior style archery. I don’t

[00:49:27] James: I mean, that’d be fun, but yeah, this to me, I still was looking at this as, as very much just a weeding out process. And so they were, they were doing a very slow ramping. Yeah. Like, if you can’t do this, you don’t stand a chance. And then they, they, the archery and they’re like, and if you can’t do this, you, there’s no reason for you to be here because, you

[00:49:55] Ka-Ce: that makes more sense.

[00:49:56] James: one of the things that, you know, that, that I thought about [00:50:00]later, you know, we have Celaena, right?

[00:50:02]And she comes and, and, and Dorian’s like, you know, you’re going to be my champion and you’re an assassin. And she’s like, you’re freaking right. I’m an assassin. I’m like, you know, I’ll kill you if I had the chance, you know, but not everybody in this tournament is of that level, you know, and, and I think that was one of the expectations that I was sort of.

[00:50:25]Did to myself when I was reading it, I was like, okay, Celaena is competing with all these other people that are going to be on the level. And, and

[00:50:34] Ka-Ce: and they’re not.

[00:50:34] James: forget that some of them are literally just people who are at the wrong place at the wrong time. And we’re like, gotta go and try to do this thing, but I don’t really have a choice because I’m a prisoner because I screwed up somewhere or whatever.

[00:50:52]Some of them are literally just people. You know, common street thieves.

[00:50:58] Ka-Ce: yea

[00:50:59] James: And I think at least for me, I had to remind myself that they’re not all on Celaena level. Like you have Celaena and obviously Cain

[00:51:08] Ka-Ce: and obviously you

[00:51:09] James: initially, you know, Mr. Eye Eater Bill.

[00:51:12]Uh, I mean, obviously he had a reputation, but you know, the rest of the competitors, they’re just, you know,

[00:51:22] Ka-Ce: Soldiers and thieves

[00:51:24]yeah, yeah, no, like, it makes sense. Like I had to step back and be like, okay, this isn’t like, you know, not everybody’s at Celaena’s level. If they were, then this competition would be totally different.

[00:51:41] James: exactly. Yeah.

[00:51:44] Ka-Ce: But I also, because I am an Olympian nut and everything, I did do the little bit of research. Um, because Celaena does mention that, what was it? [00:52:00]The target was nearly 70 yards away for the last target, right? That’s the farthest target. So, of course, Each distance gets harder and harder at the Olympics, the distance, um, that the archery, um, competitors were shooting at was a distance of 77 yards or 70 meters.

[00:52:19]So, I mean, yeah, that’s, they were shooting nearly Olympic sized, uh, distance for the very last one. So, you know, they had to get through the first four and then shoot at pretty much an Olympic level.

[00:52:36] James: Which is why they’re saying that the worst shooter is the one that goes home. Not, not everybody who misses the last one,

[00:52:42] Ka-Ce: yeah,

[00:52:43] James: just the person who does the worst. So, you know, because the expectation was probably there that there wouldn’t be very many competitors who could hit all five. But if you could hit four out of five, You’re still doing pretty damn good,

[00:52:58] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:52:58] James: you know, um, but yeah, I wonder if she looked that up when she wrote this, if, if she was like, Olympic is this, so I better shorten it a little bit.

[00:53:11] Ka-Ce: We don’t want to make it spot on, but

[00:53:14] James: Most people are not shooting and at an Olympic level.

[00:53:18] Ka-Ce: no, no, they’re not. And, and the ones that are shooting at the Olympic level, holy crap. Like if you did not watch the summer games, what were you doing? need to watch it at the next summer games.

[00:53:32] James: So, so of course, you know, everyone’s doing the shooting, right? Time passes. It’s her turn. What happens? Chaol says. Don’t show off and Celaena’s just like this mother effer I swear I would stab you through the eye socket, but the tips of the arrows have been blunted

[00:53:55] Ka-Ce: Of course they have been cause safety first, even though it’s a projectile.[00:54:00]

[00:54:01] James: So, yeah, so the tips she gets up there tips have been blunted each target is smaller the farther back it’s placed and the room Is long and so it is a challenge. Um, she gets up there, it’s her turn to shoot. And she’s saying to herself, I am Celaena Sardothian, Ardalan’s assassin. If these men knew who I was, they’d stop laughing. I am Celaena Sardothian. I’m going to win. I will not be afraid and then bullseye. Boom. Some people stop laughing and they’re like, who’s this Lillian chick that like, she’s supposed to be what a

[00:54:46] Ka-Ce: She will be

[00:54:47] James: jewel thief fish mongers daughter, like

[00:54:51] Ka-Ce: merchant.

[00:54:52] James: merchant. Yeah. Um, and then she just keeps that bullseye. Boom. Um, bullseye, bullseye, bullseye.

[00:55:00]She gets to the last arrow

[00:55:02] Ka-Ce: arrow. And, other guys

[00:55:03] James: and one of the other guys. Uh, Renault, a red haired mercenary, he snick snickers. I hate that word.

[00:55:11] Ka-Ce: Sniggered? It’s

[00:55:14] James: It’s just just say snicker. It’s the same I mean, it’s not the same, but whatever. I hate that word. Um, last and farthest target, and and sh you know what? She was she was gonna let it go. She was like, I got four bullseyes. Uh, and I’ll, I’ll throw it in for the last one, like, I won’t do perfect, it’s gonna kill me, but I ain’t gonna do perfect, and then this mother effer, sittin in the corner, like, and she’s like,

[00:55:48]mmm bullseye,

[00:55:51]damn, and everyone’s just like, well, damn girl, and [00:56:00]Chaol is pissed.

[00:56:01] Ka-Ce: Of course he is.

[00:56:02] James: Dorian is turned on.

[00:56:06] Ka-Ce: I don’t know if he’s turned on, but like, he’s, he’s, he’s loving it.

[00:56:10] James: boy, boy. He boy knows what’s up. He’s like, all right. I like this one. Uh, and I mean, he’s probably proud too, but I think he’s a little turned on. He’s like, He’s like, I made a good choice. I also think that Dorian loves the fact that, that Chaol’s mad.

[00:56:33] Ka-Ce: You think so? Yeah.

[00:56:35] James: Like, I’m sure he looked over and was like, Chaol probably said, you know, something.

[00:56:41]The look on his face is telling me that she did the exact opposite. I find that pretty funny. Like, you know, that’s, in my mind, I’m seeing that exchange, um, just because Dorian would notice something like that. And Chaol, Chaol wears his emotions on his sleeve, like,

[00:57:06] Ka-Ce: which wouldn’t really be that great if you’re captain of the guard, I feel like.

[00:57:10] James: it, it wouldn’t, but dude’s only 21, 22 or something like that? Like, he’s still a baby. I mean, people forget, you know, he’s not this war veteran, you know, Like, he’s never seen any real action. He hasn’t, you know, he is, he is very much an untouched soul at this point, and he needs to learn Poker Face, still, at this point.

[00:57:43]We get down to it and, and we find out that Pelor was not eliminated, which was surprising to me

[00:57:51] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:57:51] James: I actually thought he was going to be the one that wasn’t going to be out,

[00:57:54] Ka-Ce: I did too, actually. Um, yeah, I, I, I really [00:58:00]thought he was going to be eliminated and

[00:58:02] James: but it turned out to be an unnamed soldier. Um, because you know, they need, uh, they need story

[00:58:09] Ka-Ce: Yes.

[00:58:10] James: plot, uh, progression. So, uh, and at the end of it all, Celaena still feels like,

[00:58:18] Ka-Ce: Everybody, that was Liam,

[00:58:20] James: was that Liam?

[00:58:21] Ka-Ce: lion. Yes.

[00:58:24] James: I’m like, your desk’s got an earthquake going on. And then, uh,

[00:58:28] Ka-Ce: Yeah, he was, he was up on the cat tree next to my desk and he jumped over. Yep. It’s

[00:58:34] James: Um, so, yeah, so at the end of the day, Celaena still feels like she hasn’t really won anything because she, she, she did better than everybody, but she still reacted in a fit, uh, you know, in a responsive way, that was not conducive to what she’s trying to do. Um.

[00:58:59] Ka-Ce: Or what Chaol is wanting her to do.

[00:59:02] James: Well, I, I mean, I think she did see the benefit of keeping a low profile, even though she doesn’t like it.

[00:59:10] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:59:10] James: Um, but she let her emotions get the better of her. Oh, okay. I can see Liam in the back over there. Um, she let, she let her emotions get the better of her. So she still, despite her victory, feeling defeated. So,

[00:59:31] Ka-Ce: Yeah. Which is a bummer because she, she did kick ass. Um, but so we have more training montage. It’s been three days after the first test and the next test or elimination round is in four days and Celaena is still running with Chaol. She’s still vomiting, and she, she still realizes that she is still out of shape despite all of this. [01:00:00]Despite Chaol’s warnings, she is still eating before the run.

[01:00:05] James: See, Chaol had some sense. Chaol’s like, girl, chill. And she’s like, no. I want my bread. I want my potatoes. I want my, and he’s like, fine. Just fine. Whatever. Just fine.

[01:00:24] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:00:26] James: I feel for him at this point because girl, she’s being stubborn for no, uh, other reason than just to be stubborn.

[01:00:37] Ka-Ce: One of the mornings when, uh, they were on a run, she hunches over, you know, shirt soaked through with sweat and everything and Chaol notices the whip marks on her back and he questions her as to when she got them and she shoots back Boy, what do you think? When do you think I got them? She received those her first day at Endovier um.

[01:01:06]And this guy just cannot, like, does not have a clue. And he asks, what did you do to deserve them? Like, what the f***, dude? Like every time he opens his mouth, like when I was reading this, I was just like, I get that you are this holier than thou captain of the guard. And you believe her to be this horrible criminal, but like, do you hear the words coming out of your mouth sometimes?

[01:01:38]It’s like,

[01:01:41] James: Yeah, I think this is, like I was saying before that this comes down to part of him just, he’s still a baby. He doesn’t understand, you know, he, he doesn’t, he understands how his family works. He understands how the [01:02:00]castle works, but he doesn’t understand how the world works. Because.

[01:02:08] Ka-Ce: No, go ahead.

[01:02:09] James: Well, I was just going to say, cause you know, he, he’s, I don’t know. I want to say he’s kind of sheltered in the castle at this point, like,

[01:02:19] Ka-Ce: Oh, he’s definitely sheltered. Um, and pegging back on that to further showcase his shelterness. Like, he further is surprised when Celaena tells him that nobody came to her aid at Endovier. Like, you know, she was this young girl being whipped and abused. There are prisoners there. Of course nobody came to her aid.

[01:02:47]And, and he, he’s like, no one helped any of the women at Endovier. Like these women were getting raped and killed and whipped. And, and he’s just, he’s surprised as captain of the guard, he’s surprised that nobody came to these people’s aid to the women’s aid.

[01:03:08] James: It’s not a spa trip, like

[01:03:11] Ka-Ce: right?

[01:03:12] James: I’m going to the salt mines . Like

[01:03:16] Ka-Ce: Like, dude, no, like you, you don’t have to be at the salt mines to know that people are getting f***ed and no, of course, nobody’s going to come to their aid. Like

[01:03:33] James: I, I think it’s one of those things where it’s, you know, you, um, really easy to not think about the things that are, that are not in your life. And he had no reason to think about the salt mines because he was the captain of the guard in the castle. It wasn’t something. It just wasn’t on his radar. Why would he think about it?

[01:03:57]And it’s easy to be unaware [01:04:00]whether you’re, whether you’re intentionally unaware or you, or you, or you. Um, just honestly don’t know, but I feel like if, if somebody came up to you just like here, say on the streets and they came up to you and they were like, yeah, I, I spent a year in the, you know, uh, uh, I don’t know what you would say in the, in the oil fields. You’re not going to be sitting there like, Oh, did you have a holiday? You’d be like, Oh, that doesn’t sound good. You know what I mean? Like there are certain things that people say that most people look at that and go. That doesn’t sound good and, and as the captain of the guard, you got to figure he had to hear something about the treatment of people over there.

[01:04:55]Like, you

[01:04:56] Ka-Ce: Yeah,

[01:04:57] James: know,

[01:04:58] Ka-Ce: something like,

[01:05:00] James: so it’s almost like willful ignorance, you know, like he didn’t want to see it, but now that it’s in front of his face, he has to address it and he, and he doesn’t know how. And you know what I mean? So, so he’s asking these questions, like, what do you mean? Nobody helped and, and probably the act of even saying it was enough to, like, be like, that’s a stupid question.

[01:05:27]Like,

[01:05:28] Ka-Ce: yeah,

[01:05:31] James: you know, I mean, but. He is very much at this point still that, that black and white, like you got whipped, so you must’ve done something wrong. And she’s like, yeah, I showed up. I guess

[01:05:45] Ka-Ce: yeah. I kind of wish that we had gotten like, Insight into what he was thinking

[01:05:53] James: Mm, mm hmm.

[01:05:55] Ka-Ce: and what he’s processing when he’s learning all of this from Celaena. [01:06:00]Um,

[01:06:00] James: was a

[01:06:01] Ka-Ce: I, I wish we had gotten that perspective. I know we, like, the book would have been a million times longer if we had gotten everybody’s perspective on everything.

[01:06:10]Um, but just to, to be in his head at this point of. Essentially doors being opened, you know, like, is brand new information. I, I would have liked that.

[01:06:26] James: interesting insight to his character and just, Mm hmm. It, it, it kind of helped me to understand a little bit about how he viewed things and why he was still at this point very much like, no, you’re not a person, you’re an assassin.

[01:06:44] Ka-Ce: the

[01:06:45] James: Like this is this, and this is this. And she’s like, no, bro, like this.

[01:06:51] Ka-Ce: so much more

[01:06:52] James: There is so much that you are just not, and, and to Dorian’s credit, I think he caught onto that way faster because of the nuance that comes with being the prince of a king who is a warlord. You know, Dorian’s been playing the game for a while and Chaol has his duties, but his duties are very regimented and they’re very set and, you know, keep this person safe. Do this, do this, do this, do not, don’t even think about the outside world. And you know what I mean? Like his worldview is so much smaller

[01:07:36] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:07:37] James: um, than anybody else’s at this point.

[01:07:41]Really?

[01:07:43] Ka-Ce: Yeah. Uh, so the next afternoon while listening to Brullo go over weapons and their uses, you know, Celaena’s like trying not to fall asleep. Um, one of the discharge soldiers who [01:08:00]is actually one of the champions, uh, Sven shoves a guard and tries to make a break for it towards the garden doors. And he’s immediately killed.

[01:08:10]Yeah. Not hesitation or anything. An arrow goes right through his throat and he’s dead. And instantly everybody’s on lockdown and Celaena and Nox are like afraid to even breathe too heavy, lest they also get shot and killed. So that was, that was a surprise. Nox is in disbelief, you know, we learned that he was granted immunity.

[01:08:34]So he wouldn’t go to prison or anything, even if he doesn’t win this competition, like he gets to go free. And now he’s like, Oh my God, what just happened? Is this going to happen to me? And we get some insight to Celaena. She finds herself sympathetic to Sven, drawing parallels to her own time in Endovier and the day that she snapped, Adarlan had taken their freedom.

[01:09:01]And the one choice left to him and left to her was death and how they chose to go out.

[01:09:08] James: I mean, Sven’s looking at it like, Sven is probably looking at it like, there’s no way in hell I’m coming out on top in this competition. At this point, you know, they’re looking at like, if, if I don’t beat that guy, there’s no way I’m beating Cain. I figure everyone’s at this point looking at Cain like, dude’s got it in the bag, there’s no way, and so Sven’s like, well, I don’t want to go back to, wherever, prison, or,

[01:09:40] Ka-Ce: or

[01:09:40] James: I don’t remember if they told us where he was, um,

[01:09:44] Ka-Ce: He was just a discharged soldier. I don’t think we got much more insight as to

[01:09:50] James: but so for him, I mean, it was probably prison, or the mines, or,

[01:09:55] Ka-Ce: or just homelessness

[01:09:57] James: Or something and he looked at that and was [01:10:00]like this. I don’t have a choice. I’m not going to win this competition. I’m, I’m going for it. And he, maybe he thought he could make it. Maybe he knew it was going to die. You know, they don’t really, there’s no real insight to that, unfortunately.

[01:10:19]Um, but, yeah. Yeah, you, you see the hopelessness because what were his choices, you know, and you figure that a lot of the other comp, uh, competitors are probably thinking the same thing, honestly, like, we’re not going to beat Cain. Celaena is probably the only one looking at it like, I can do this. You know,

[01:10:46] Ka-Ce: I, I was thinking that. And I wish they would have done, uh, would have discussed more, but I thought maybe this Soldier Sven knew something about the Eye Eater’s murder, and that, and he was spooked,

[01:11:05] James: maybe

[01:11:05] Ka-Ce: that’s why he took a run for it.

[01:11:08] James: Maybe.

[01:11:10] Ka-Ce: I mean, they didn’t really say yes or no to that, um, but that’s where my mind was headed, like, you know, you had the one lackey of Cain who was already withdrawn and was like, was like freaked out.

[01:11:25]And then you had, you know, then we also had the murder and everybody’s like on guard. So I just, I kind of figured like Sven saw something or heard something and he was like, Oh, f*** this s***. I’m out.

[01:11:36] James: could have been, I mean, honestly, he’s like, no, did you guys see the body? I’m out.

[01:11:43] Ka-Ce: Right.

[01:11:45] James: Any death would be better than that death.

[01:11:48] Ka-Ce: At least it was like a straight shot. Boom. You know?

[01:11:53] James: mean, you would hope you’d go quickly with a shot through the throat, but

[01:11:57] Ka-Ce: Yeah. You could choke for a[01:12:00]

[01:12:00] James: I mean the chick who died in Vox Machina when he, when she got shot through the throat, she died pretty quick.

[01:12:09]So maybe,

[01:12:10] Ka-Ce: Cartoons know everything.

[01:12:12] James: if you get shot through the back of the throat. That will sever your,

[01:12:17] Ka-Ce: Hmm.

[01:12:18] James: your, your neck. I mean, if it was shot correctly, you could sever the spinal cord. I mean, yeah, I suppose maybe, hopefully, cause that would be terrible to be sitting there in agony and

[01:12:33] Ka-Ce: Oh,

[01:12:34] James: drowning in your own blood, basically, you know,

[01:12:37] Ka-Ce: yeah. Alright, moving

[01:12:40] James: that’s a great way. Uh, all right. Chapter 17, uh, we’re back on the,

[01:12:48] Ka-Ce: Favorite character.

[01:12:49] James: we’re what?

[01:12:50] Ka-Ce: Your favorite character.

[01:12:52] James: Oh yeah. We’re right back. Uh, Dorian back. He’s back in action. And when we say action, we mean My poor guy. He can’t deal. He’s in court and he doesn’t want to be there. But basically his mother was like you will be here and he’s just like, uh, Why?

[01:13:15]Why am I burdened with this princedom? Why?

[01:13:20]I thought you were

[01:13:20] Ka-Ce: going to say glorious purpose, and I was like, you’re pulling a Loki moment, and this does

[01:13:25] James: You know what though? You know what though? Um, um, Dorian, because he is just not focused, so his mother is trying to get him to focus on all the pretty young things because she wants grandbabies and Dorian’s

[01:13:45] Ka-Ce: And heir to the throne.

[01:13:46] James: yeah. And Dorian is just like, I’m just, I’m tired of chasing around. I don’t want, I don’t want none of that kitty no more, you know, and he’s bored.

[01:13:56]I mean, yeah, you know, and, and so he finds [01:14:00]himself thinking, getting lost in thought and he’s like, what in the actual hell is my father doing? Having all of these criminals, here in the castle for this stupid competition that we still don’t really know what the end game is. Um, you know, we’ve had Sven who died by trying to escape that.

[01:14:23]We had Bill being murdered, um, and Dorian’s here dressed up like a freaking peacock being paraded around. Because his mom wants him to choose somebody and get some of that action. And it’s like, thanks for being a wingman mom, but. Please stop.

[01:14:47] Ka-Ce: What I found, so his mom is so focused on court and what’s happening in court, but she doesn’t know that this competition is going on. And with the amount of competitors

[01:15:00] James: crazy to me.

[01:15:02] Ka-Ce: right? Like how could you be so oblivious to that out of every like, mm,

[01:15:09] James: Like you just be like, who’s that guy wandering around over there? He looks a little not quite court, uh, quality. Oh yeah. That’s just the new, uh, janitor cook guy.

[01:15:26] Ka-Ce: She’s so focused on parties and, and wanting Dorian to marry and worried about Holland. I’m just like, how can you not know what’s going on under your own roof? I get that castles are huge, but

[01:15:42] James: maybe it’s a poor people thing, maybe because we’ve never had to deal with anything on that, that, that big of a scale. That’s why we just don’t understand.

[01:15:53] Ka-Ce: I mean, I, I understand that like, usually the Queens have their said duties and Kings have theirs and stuff, but you would [01:16:00]think with as much attention as she pays to the court and to rumors and gossip and stuff that like the gossip would have gotten around like what’s going on with all these champions and there’s a female champion that

[01:16:16] James: the court. Yeah. From the court ladies themselves. Right. I mean, because that’s all they fricking do.

[01:16:22] Ka-Ce: Yeah, so I don’t know if that is, but maybe, maybe I’m a little biased

[01:16:29] James: it’s another case of willful ignorance? Like I don’t see it. I don’t know what’s going on.

[01:16:37] Ka-Ce: I think I might be biased too because of all the historical kdramas, like the queens and the queen consorts and everything, they knew like everything that was going on in court, like they made it their business to know everything.

[01:16:53] James: They also tortured all their little, like, uh, servants, like, every other day, so,

[01:17:00] Ka-Ce: I mean, it wouldn’t be a drama if there wasn’t torture.

[01:17:07] James: fair enough, you know what, that, that is a fair point. Um,

[01:17:13] Ka-Ce: So Dorian, as he’s, you know, thinking through everything, he, like Celaena cannot figure out why Nehemia is there and why his father has allowed for her to stay there for so long because she is literally from a Country or province or you know, whatever that is very actively resisting him, even though they’ve already been conquered. They are still very much like you may have conquered our, you know, place, but you’ll never conquer our minds sort of thing. And he’s like, yeah, just wait. Um, and they’ve allowed her to maintain her title and they’ve allowed her to maintain her dignity and they’ve now allowed her in the [01:18:00]castle, you know, like, why, what is the end game here?

[01:18:05] James: It doesn’t make any sense. And Dorian, because he’s a thinker, he’s trying to put all the pieces together. Um, And he also, you know, knows that she supports the, the Eyllwe, Eyllwe, I can’t say that word, the Eyllwe rebels, um, and she’s trying to shut down the labor camp at Cala, uh, Calaculla, Calaculla.

[01:18:31] Ka-Ce: Calaculla, I believe.

[01:18:34] James: Um, so, two thoughts, you know, first off, Dorian is, um, smarter than, than initially, you know, we would think of a princeling type of character. Um, I mean, we already know he likes to read. Very good with the music. Um, he, Is already, you know, doing mental games, trying to compete with his father, not really succeeding, but, you know, he’s trying.

[01:19:07]Um, so, you know, we’re thinking maybe Dorian has a little bit of ADHD.

[01:19:17] Ka-Ce: Yeah, I put that in my notes, I wasn’t expecting you to, uh,

[01:19:23]He

[01:19:23] James: could be though.

[01:19:25] Ka-Ce: I mean, cause he, he’s bored with court, he’s bored with all the court ladies, and they’re simpering and stuff, and he’s already bored with the contest, and they’ve only had Like, two official tests, like, to me that, that’s like, when I’m like, Ooh, a new hobby. Let me learn how to do this.

[01:19:44]Okay. That was fun. Now let me go and learn how to do this. Okay. That was fun. Next thing. It, that. To me just it, it, I was like, my boy got ADHD.

[01:19:55] James: Well, I mean, in today’s standards, I mean, maybe. It’s [01:20:00]probably not the way he was written, but it’s

[01:20:01] Ka-Ce: No,

[01:20:02] James: to think about anyway, because I can see that with him, where he’s invested so much to get this whole thing going, and now he’s just like, okay,

[01:20:12] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:20:13] James: I’m, I’m kind of over all this and yeah,

[01:20:17] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:20:18] James: but he literally has nothing else to focus on.

[01:20:22]He’s so sick and tired of talking to the court ladies, um, to the point where his mom is like, look, just pick one, knock her up, you don’t even have to like her. not what makes a successful marriage anyway. You just, you learn to get along, but you don’t have to like each other.

[01:20:49] Ka-Ce: No.

[01:20:50] James: you’ll learn to tolerate each other, and he’s just like,

[01:20:54] Ka-Ce: he

[01:20:55] James: what?

[01:20:56] Ka-Ce: He, he wants love, but yeah. And I mean, who doesn’t it just when you’re a Royal that’s a luxury you just don’t get to have unfortunately.

[01:21:09] James: yeah,

[01:21:09] Ka-Ce: But he, you know, he- he like you said, he reads and everything. He, he wants more He desires more than just-

[01:21:15]

[01:21:15] James: Makes you feel for the guy, you know, it’s a, it’s an insight to his life where at first you’re like, Oh yeah, this is just a regular Prince who goes around. It’s like, Hey, pretty lady, you could be the next queen. If you show me a little something, something, you know, and he’s like, yeah, I’m done with all that.

[01:21:31]Like, I can’t just, it was fun for like, you know, the first couple of whatever’s, but now it’s just like, There’s no challenge, you know, because every girl is going to be like, Ooh, I can be the next queen. Sure. You know, feast on my bosom, you know, kind of like, um, so with all this going on, Dorian’s like, I got to get out of here.

[01:21:56]Like, yes, mother, I’ll take the list. I’ll, you [01:22:00]know, I’ll take it under consideration. Blah, blah, blah. Good night. See you later. Peace out, later.. Um, as he’s going, he hears, uh, the, some training stuff going on. And so he goes over to see what’s, what’s all the hubbub. And he, and he finds Celaena sparring with three guards.

[01:22:26]Um, and then also Princess. Uh, Nehemia is there, she starts clapping, they stop fighting for a moment, um, and Dorian notices that it’s just them. There’s no Brullo, there’s no Chaol, and he’s like, this doesn’t seem right. She’s an assassin. Why is she being unsupervised with the freaking princess.

[01:22:54]from, you know, from this other province, is it province or country?

[01:23:00]I don’t remember.

[01:23:02] Ka-Ce: Uh, country, Eyllwe.

[01:23:04] James: It’s a country, right? Yeah. And, and he’s like, this, this is not, uh, this is not good. This is bad juju right here. Like she could kill all y’all and then her. And, and so he’s like, really bro? Yeah. Like if I wanted them, they’d already be dead before you even got here, you know, poor Celaena and she’s just looking for a friend, you know, like,

[01:23:35] Ka-Ce: And she’s just trying to train. Like she has an upcoming test and she’s already admitted that she still feels weak and not up to her normal standards. She just wants to train before the next test.

[01:23:49] James: Right. And as she told him, you know, Brullo said that she could train there for as long as she liked. It wasn’t her fault that Nehemia came in, like she was just doing her [01:24:00]thing. It’s not her place to say, I’m sorry, princess, you need to leave. Like,

[01:24:05] Ka-Ce: Well, and that’s the thing too. She’s a princess. Like, how are you supposed to say no to a princess?

[01:24:10] James: yeah, she’s just lady Lillian. Like she ain’t nobody.

[01:24:15]Dorian’s, you know, kind of on edge about this, obviously. And it’s good. He should be. He’s keeping an eye on things. he does tell her, you know, You can’t be hanging out with her. You gotta be supervised. These are rules. She’s like,

[01:24:34] Ka-Ce: Blah, blah, blah.

[01:24:35] James: She’s the only person who’s been nice to me. Why would I want to kill her? Dorian, you know, tries to get them separated, and Nehemia is like, Nah. Like,

[01:24:51] Ka-Ce: No.

[01:24:52] James: No. Which, you know, Dorian doesn’t really know what to do with that, because he’s just like, this fine, whatever. Like, I think he’s so done with it at this point, and, but he’s also sort of intrigued by the fact that now there’s not just one, but there are two of these women who are not fawning over him, and they are very much in fact, um, arguing with him.

[01:25:22]On literally anything he says, like,

[01:25:27] Ka-Ce: I mean, and I think also like he speaks a little bit of Eyllwe, but not fluently and Celaena does. And so, you know, that’s like another strike against him. And yeah,

[01:25:41] James: yeah, so he, he’s not, uh, he knows when, when he’s not going to win. So yeah, he decides to, um, participate in the training. He’s like, fine, if you can’t fight them, join them. Cause she’s not going to [01:26:00]listen to him, you know? And, and even if he had told, Celaena, look, you, I do have control over. You need to go. I think he knew that that was a losing battle too, like,

[01:26:15] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:26:16] James: he just, he, he wasn’t in the mood or the head space to deal with it.

[01:26:22] Ka-Ce: Dorian’s a smart guy. Do you know he has his, his. and downs and everything, but Dorian’s a smart guy. He, he does know when to pick his battles, especially with Celaena. Um, so I, I love that he’s like, fine, you can stay, but I’m going to be the one that trains with Nehemia. And then when he realizes that Nehemia knows what to do with her wooden staff, he’s like, oh.

[01:26:53]Oh no, I’m going to go grab some wooden swords and we’re going to do this instead so I can show off and you can be at the disadvantage.

[01:27:03] James: Right? Such a s***.

[01:27:07] Ka-Ce: Yup. Reminds me of somebody.

[01:27:09] James: Typical man. Why are you better at this thing? I need to go get something that I’m better at.

[01:27:19] Ka-Ce: Yeah, Celaena sits back and enjoys watching Dorian try to teach Nehemia basic fencing. And she’s noticing how cute he is and is kind of startled herself to find that she wants to kiss him. She hasn’t kissed anyone since Sam over a year ago and then comes in Chaol and ruins it all. He drags Celaena away and demands to know what is going on and she tells him. And before he can confront Dorian, oh wait, she quickly informs him of what is going on.

[01:27:58]They were training, [01:28:00]Dorian showed up, now he’s training Nehemia. And Chaol tells Celaena’s guards to take her back to her chambers. And of course Celaena’s pissed, like, dude, they were all getting along. They were all having a great time. She was training like she wanted before her upcoming test. Now she’s taking a break.

[01:28:21]She’s watching Dorian and Princess Nehemia. What the hell. And he tells her that it’s almost dinner time, she needs to rest, and she needs to eat. And I get it. You don’t want to push your body too much. And she already is pushing her body a lot.

[01:28:40] James: Hmm.

[01:28:42] Ka-Ce: But he doesn’t have to be a dick about it.

[01:28:45] James: I think he was just feeling left out.

[01:28:47] Ka-Ce: Think so?

[01:28:48] James: Honestly

[01:28:49]I think he came and he was like, Why is everyone having such a good time? I need to go and ruin that. No.

[01:28:59] Ka-Ce: See!

[01:28:59]He’s being a dick!

[01:29:00] James: No, I say that. I love Chaol’s my boy. I think he just has a lot to learn about social interactions.

[01:29:08] Ka-Ce: Yes. And the real world.

[01:29:10] James: I think he

[01:29:10] Ka-Ce: lot of growing up to

[01:29:12] James: I think he panicked, honestly. He comes over, cause he probably hears sword fighting, the wooden sticks knocking against each other, and he’s like What’s going on? Who’s in the training room? He comes over, and he sees Dorian, the prince, sword fighting with the princess from the other country and there’s the assassin sitting on the sidelines and he probably looks at this whole thing and he’s just like,

[01:29:40] Ka-Ce: This is such a breach of security.

[01:29:43] James: yeah, he’s like, they’re gonna have my head, my job, my nuts, my, like.. So he’s gonna come in and be like, No, you can’t do that. You can’t do that. Dorian, I’ll talk to you later. Like, I just imagined him going into [01:30:00]panic mode. Like, this is wrong. This is wrong. This is wrong. And I gotta fix it.

[01:30:06] Ka-Ce: yeah, no, I get that. But like, I feel like it’s been one step forward with Chaol and his relationship with Celaena and then three steps back. Like, they’re not making progress.

[01:30:20] James: No, no, not

[01:30:21] Ka-Ce: Like, he still, he still has her best interests at heart in regards to this competition. You know, as far as training and, and getting her meals in and resting and stuff.

[01:30:35]And she does need a rest. She is overtaxing herself, but he’s also being a dick about it.

[01:30:44] James: I think he just doesn’t know how to not be at this point.

[01:30:50] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:30:51] James: They’re like, Chaol, you’re being a dick. And he’s like, no, I’m just

[01:30:55] Ka-Ce: Being

[01:30:56] James: being me in the way that I need to be. Yes. You’re being a dick.

[01:31:02] Ka-Ce: Yeah. and she, she retorts back to Chaol telling him that her body is a mess. She knows it’s a mess. She needs more training. She needs to stop throwing up. and she knows that if she tries to flee that they’re just going to send her back to Endovier. And she does not want to go back to that place. And he’s still such an ass.

[01:31:26]And he tells her, I’m not going to pretend to know how a criminal mind works. And she’s just like, The f***, dude. The f***, you know? She hates sitting around, locked in her room, bored out of her mind. Yes, she has books, but still, you know, reading can only get you so far. She hates all the guards that are constantly around her.

[01:31:49]She hates being told to hold back in training. She hates being unnoticed in the middle. But most of all, she’s hating Chaol. There is [01:32:00]no kindness from him and he’s just like, are you finished? Are you done? Like, hmm.

[01:32:10] James: I didn’t, like, the whole interaction right there was a little odd. Like,

[01:32:15] Ka-Ce: I, I

[01:32:16] James: was colder than he had been in any other interaction at that point.

[01:32:22] Ka-Ce: yeah, like I get, okay, so she’s still young, you know, she’s like 18. She still has growing up to do as well and some maturing. And so I get being frustrated and then just lashing out. He has several years on her, but he also doesn’t have the life experience she does. And I just feel like they’re both, they both need to mature so much.

[01:32:48] James: Well, yeah, I mean, they are, they’re, they’re different. At different times, they’re at different levels, but they’re never right where they need to be like,

[01:32:58] Ka-Ce: but she, like, she just needs a little bit of kindness from him. Not saying that he needs to. overly kind because then he wouldn’t be captain of the guard and he wouldn’t be doing his job, but just like an inkling of kindness, but at the same time, you know, she is burnt out from all this training. She’s tired.

[01:33:20]She’s lashing out. And he’s just like, like how you would look at a toddler. I’m assuming and, and just be like, are you done?

[01:33:28] James: yeah, because he’s looking at it as, as a tantrum and she’s looking at it as a way of expressing the fact that. You brought me here to do this thing, but there’s more to me than just this thing. I’m not just an assassin. I’m not just a competitor. I’m not just a champion. I’m not just a slave. I am a person with a past and, you know, and, and he is not seeing any [01:34:00]of that. Um, and maybe it’s because he doesn’t want to, you know, because the minute he humanizes her, he

[01:34:09] Ka-Ce: makes his job harder.

[01:34:10] James: he can’t treat her like that anymore. As long as she is just an assassin or just a tool or just a whatever, doesn’t have to worry about it.

[01:34:21] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:34:21] James: know, but yeah, the whole interaction there was just, um, it felt like he was swinging back really hard against the, you know, because they were having banter and they were teasing each other and, and training and, and building a repertoire of between each other.

[01:34:45] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:34:47] James: and then there’s this one little thing where he comes in and freaks out and then he’s just like, no. I, no, just.

[01:34:58] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:34:59] James: and yeah, yeah, I don’t know.

[01:35:06] Ka-Ce: Come on, Chaol. Get it together.

[01:35:08] James: It’s kind of extreme. I can, I can see, you know, like his point of view, but yeah, I still think that he, he reacted a little bit, um, to. Too much extreme,

[01:35:26] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:35:26] James: you know, character development. Come on, buddy. Come on.

[01:35:33] Ka-Ce: We need to glow up.

[01:35:34] James: We need you to, we need to pull through here. All right. So chapter 19, we are now circling back over to Lady Kaltain. She is at the court. She has been watching Dorian. Um, because, I mean, she’s always watching [01:36:00]Dorian. Like,

[01:36:01] Ka-Ce: Girl

[01:36:02]wants the prince.

[01:36:03] James: she gets an eye on him and she’s like, that is my ticket. I need to, I need to get with that guy so I don’t have to f*** that guy.

[01:36:11] Ka-Ce: Mm hmm.

[01:36:13] James: Um, but anyway, um, she’s watching everything in the court at this point, right? Just because she is also, we’re getting insight to how, um, She is operating and how her plans and how her mind works. And, um, you know, why is she here? So she’s watching Duke Perrington converse with the Queen. She’s surprised because the Duke very rarely ever comes to the court. I’m guessing it’s he basically comes talks to the king and then disappears again to do who knows what right, is a very shady character, shady individual.

[01:36:58]Don’t like him

[01:37:01] Ka-Ce: Not at all.

[01:37:02] James: When she sees him leaving, she goes up and approaches him hoping to get information about what they were talking about. And this is where we learned that she was there at the court because of the Duke’s graces. She had convinced him to take her there, implying that, um, that she would be able to, you know, make more headway here by getting out of her, her father’s household.

[01:37:32]Right. And so she was like, I see an opportunity here. Maybe I can meet the prince. Maybe I can meet the king. Maybe I can get, you know, my foot in the door. Maybe I get myself in the bed kind of thing. Get the crown on my head, right? Whatever is necessary. Um, but, um, She knows that time is running out. She has [01:38:00]not gotten Dorian’s attention at this point.

[01:38:04]And she knows that Perrington is gonna come for collection at some point here. And it’s gonna happen pretty soon. Like, she can see the timetable, with the way, with the way that, that he looks at her.

[01:38:22] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:38:22] James: uh, because I think somewhere she even, she even says, like, the, the, it’s creepy. The way he looks at her, like she notices when he looks at her and she can just feel him, you know, basically violating her body with his eyes.

[01:38:37]Like, so, I mean, girl’s motivated, right? But, you know, this is a gamble, it’s a gamble I wouldn’t take, like, because that, that, it’s stacked against you.

[01:38:52] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:38:53] James: You’re one person vying for the crown, for the prince and, and your, your big scheme is like, oh yeah, like, I’ll give you a little something, something, you know, if you help me get, you know,

[01:39:06] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:39:06] James: bad, bad decisions, like not a good way to do it.

[01:39:10] Ka-Ce: I could not ever. Nope.

[01:39:13] James: But during the discussion, she lets him know that she met lady Lillian, who is Celaena and that she is nice. And we all what nice means when girls say another girl is nice. It means, F that bitch. Uh, she wants to know if one of the names that the queen gave Dorian as a potential bride, uh, she’s surprised when Perrington is upset by hearing this and tells her that, of course not, that that’s, she’s not an option.

[01:39:49]She’s not, uh, on the table, you know, don’t. Just get that out of your head, um, Kaltain implies that Dorian [01:40:00]has basically become enamored with Lillian because he very pointedly is like, yeah, yeah, are you done talking now? So Lillian, um, and she notices that, you know, because she’s vying for the crown. Um, Perrington says, you know, that’s a non issue, there’s nothing gonna happen, don’t worry about it, um, but he promises her that he’ll explain it all to her later. So we are getting sort of an idea here that Perrington is in the know for a lot more than we initially thought, right? Um, I guess, uh, that’s kind of like an insight to, to Perrington’s background role in a lot of what’s going on. Without really telling us exactly what it is he knows, we’re getting the idea that he knows something or maybe a lot of somethings.

[01:41:12] Ka-Ce: Mm hmm.

[01:41:14] James: So, you know, we’re figuring Kaltain, you know, she’s trying to dig up anything she can against Lillian because she sees her as the competition. Um, she. Figures that Perrington knows who Lillian is because Kaltain’s not buying this whole like, you know, daughter of the merchant, uh, jewel thief, whatever. Um, and there’s a secret here. What is the secret? You know, there’s a lot to

[01:41:49] Ka-Ce: To unpack,

[01:41:50] James: here. Like,

[01:41:53] Ka-Ce: well, I mean, with Perrington saying someday he would tell her, like, why, you know, [01:42:00]Dorian can’t marry Lillian, he can’t be in love with her and everything, um, like, what good would it do to tell Kaltain? He knows that she’s She’s involved in the court and, you know, what do they all do in court?

[01:42:16]They all gossip in court and stuff and they don’t want Lillian’s true identity coming out. At least not yet.

[01:42:23] James: I don’t think he ever had an intention to tell her. I think he told her that to just to keep her at bay.

[01:42:33] Ka-Ce: Okay,

[01:42:34] James: I don’t think there would. Yeah. Because like you said, there would be no reason for him to tell her because it wouldn’t do him any good. It’s not it’s not going to help his cause. But, you know, if you keep dangling,

[01:42:48] Ka-Ce: Little

[01:42:49] James: that little, that little thing, she’s going to be distracted by that little thing.

[01:42:55]And then she’s not going to notice when it’s too late when he comes collecting. That’s how I see it anyway. I just see it as one of those things that you just say when you want somebody to let something go. yeah. I’ll tell you later. Don’t worry. I’ll fill you in when the time is right.

[01:43:15] Ka-Ce: Makes sense.

[01:43:17] James: You know,

[01:43:19]And then, of course, we got him being creepy. he, uh, he makes a suggestion that maybe he could see her, you know, that night before he goes off to a meeting, hinting that. You know, he’d like to collect on, on their bargain and she kind of laughs and, you know, brushes off like, Oh yeah, maybe ha ha ha ha.

[01:43:38]And then she’s like, Oh God, like, I need to figure some s*** out because uuuhhh baby, you know,

[01:43:50] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:43:51] James: Um, so then we switch back to Chaol and Dorian. They are seeing Nehemia back to her chambers [01:44:00]before they’re going to dinner. Um, Chaol warns Dorian about this is the talking to, you know, the talking to he’s saying, you know, be careful with Celaena.

[01:44:12]You don’t know what she’s capable of. Um, I don’t know why you’re being so candid about all this. Uh, and Dorian is telling him, look, Celaena doesn’t want to kill him. She doesn’t really want to kill any of them at this point. She wants to be pampered. Um, she wants to just be treated like a regular person.

[01:44:35]And don’t forget that I’m the prince. So don’t tell me what to do

[01:44:42] Ka-Ce: Dorian’s

[01:44:42]laying the smack down.

[01:44:46] James: Right And then I think he realizes that he got a little too serious. You know, he makes a joke he’s like you need to stop worrying so much. You’re like a you know, you’re a grandma, you’re going to go gray before you’re 25. And, and, and how could there possibly be anything anyway? You know, she’s focused.

[01:45:05]She’s want to win. She’s going to leave. There’s no possible way that anybody could fall in love. Blah, blah, blah. Dorian’s defense mechanism. Make a joke out of it, you know?

[01:45:17] Ka-Ce: Much like a lot of us millennials, I feel like.

[01:45:20] James: Yeah, exactly. He got a little, he got a little too serious and then he went, LOL.

[01:45:29] Ka-Ce: yeah, how do I, how do I make this not so awkward?

[01:45:38] James: Yeah, exactly. And, and, And then he’s like, and even if she did try to escape, then you’d have to catch her, throw her in the dungeon, kill her. And then that would be heartbreaking. And Chaol is just like, what? Like, you’re so far off tangent now, bro. [01:46:00]Just, okay, fine. Whatever. Um, and then now we’ve, you know, um, we’re still trying to figure out, you know, what Chaol’s deal is, like, why is, why was he being very, I don’t want to say buddy buddy with her, but he was definitely starting to, you know, they were having an exchange back and forth.

[01:46:26]Um, he would say something and she would say, and then he would say, and then they would say, and then, you know, and ha ha, and you know, all that good stuff. And then we had the whole thing with him snapping and. What would be the cause for this? Yo, yo, you know, like, is he, is he reacting because he’s like, Ooh, I’m getting a little too comfortable with her or, um, you know, am I, am I pushing the boundaries and being not as professional as I should be?

[01:46:58]I am the captain of the guard.

[01:47:00] Ka-Ce: hmm.

[01:47:01] James: Am I fraternizing? Should I not be fraternizing? Like, I could see him, like,

[01:47:06] Ka-Ce: Questioning that,

[01:47:08] James: his duty. Like, am I, am I failing in my duty because I’m getting too comfortable?

[01:47:15] Ka-Ce: or because this is kind of a romantasy series, do you think he’s starting to have feelings for her? And he That’s taking him by surprise and he’s not ready to confront that.

[01:47:28] James: I mean, at this point, I think it’s friendship feelings. I don’t think it’s romantic yet. Um, but I could, I could see him even still pulling away from a friendship at this point because again, he is the captain of the guard. She is an assassin. And those two things wouldn’t normally be friends.

[01:47:51] Ka-Ce: Yeah,

[01:47:52] James: I mean, maybe under some circumstance they might be, but under this circumstance, they’re not. [01:48:00]So I would see him, even if it was romantic or friendship. Or just whatever I could see him pulling back regardless because he’s getting too personal and that’s not what he’s supposed to be doing.

[01:48:16] Ka-Ce: Hmm.

[01:48:17] James: You know what I mean?

[01:48:18] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:48:19] James: Um, so, you know, who knows, uh, Chaol’s got issues.

[01:48:26] Ka-Ce: Yes, yes, he does.

[01:48:27] James: got a, bro has got to grow.

[01:48:32] Ka-Ce: Yes. Bro has gotta grow. I like that. Hashtag.

[01:48:38] James: Right. Hashtag Chaol. Hashtag bro has got to grow.

[01:48:43] Ka-Ce: Oh my gosh. I need to write that down and use

[01:48:46] James: you know what? That’s a good one. That, that is a good one. I’m going to see if we can go viral with, uh,

[01:48:53] Ka-Ce: Bro has gotta grow. That’s probably already trending or something.

[01:49:00] James: I guess we’ll find out, won’t we? And you can’t be too hard on Chaol because he is also trying to figure out what ate Bill the Eye Eater. I just imagine Chaol, he’s sitting there going, Bro, this is tearing me up. Not like it tore you up. But I, but I can’t figure this out.

[01:49:30] Ka-Ce: Oh my gosh.

[01:49:32] James: Um, because bodily, bodily s***. Body, totally destroyed. Innards, completely gone. Brain, gone. Um. Which is oddly specific. Um,

[01:49:48] Ka-Ce: Right.

[01:49:49] James: they send a message to the king. Dorian says the king will be happy that the eye eater is gone. I honestly can’t imagine the king caring one way or the other. Um,

[01:49:59] Ka-Ce: Yeah, I didn’t get the [01:50:00]sense that the king

[01:50:02] James: and I will say, at this point, I thought that this was going to be a tie in with the gargoyles.

[01:50:08] Ka-Ce: I actually did too. Because the gargoyles were mentioned earlier and, like, and in detail and everything and their creepiness. I, I really thought, especially because, like, the body, like, the way it was first described being slashed and, and the innards and stuff. I mean, it still could be the gargoyles, for those that haven’t read this.

[01:50:33] James: yeah, no, I’m just, my initial thought was, oh yeah, those mother effing gargoyles that s*** came to life and, and just bodied somebody. Like,

[01:50:43] Ka-Ce: I just, like, see, I don’t, I haven’t read up on gargoyles, like, in myth and lore and stuff. Do they require magic to come alive?

[01:50:59] James: I, my total experience with gargoyles was the cartoon from my childhood. So,

[01:51:06] Ka-Ce: The, the TV

[01:51:07] James: uh, when the sun comes up, they turn to stone and when the, When the sun goes down, they,

[01:51:13] Ka-Ce: They animate?

[01:51:14] James: they come to life. That’s literally all I, other than the fact that gargoyles were placed on castles facing outwards because they were protectors, guardians.

[01:51:25]Um, I

[01:51:27] Ka-Ce: I think of, I think of the little, um, gargoyles from Notre Dame, Hunchback of Notre Dame.

[01:51:33] James: Oh.

[01:51:34] Ka-Ce: like legs. They, they just have like the um, yeah, no, my theory was gargoyles too. I mean, cause what else, what else would be at the castle that could shred a human like that and would want to eat their [01:52:00]innards and their brain and stuff.

[01:52:01] James: Had with the, when I read this, so, so I had a couple, my first one was gargoyles. My second one was that there was some sort of shenanigans going on with the other competitors. Or a competitor and that they were taking the organs and using them not to eat them or anything, but they were taking them to use them for something

[01:52:25] Ka-Ce: Mm, yeah.

[01:52:26] James: working up to some sort of summoning ritual or sacrifice or

[01:52:35] Ka-Ce: Making something. Yeah.

[01:52:38] James: because I was like, well, there’s, there’s a fair number of, um, myths and lore and things where, where innards are taken to be used as ingredients for something, you know, so I didn’t necessarily think about it as, as something like, oh, like bro got eaten, like he could have been, but then I also thought, yeah, but he could have also just, you

[01:53:03] Ka-Ce: his stuff taken.

[01:53:05] James: his stuff taken because there’s, you know, somebody, you know, obviously you’re thinking like, oh, it could be Cain, but then you’re like, you know, but he’s the obvious choice.

[01:53:17]It could be, it could be Nox, you know, because at this point, we still don’t really know that much about him.

[01:53:24] Ka-Ce: True.

[01:53:25] James: Like, we know that he doesn’t really want to be there. He’s quiet. A lot of times it’s the unassuming ones, you know, he,

[01:53:33] Ka-Ce: Ooh, it’s Pelor, isn’t it?

[01:53:34] James: and, and, you know, they’re the ones that you look at and you’re like, yeah, nah.

[01:53:40]So, you know, there are a couple of different things and you’re like, Okay. It could be, I don’t know, it could be something, but my first thought was gargoyle. And then my, my backup theory was it was somebody collecting the organs for a [01:54:00]ritual of some kind. Um, and I actually thought, you know, oh, are we going to like get to a point where they’re going to find like the

[01:54:09] Ka-Ce: All the body parts and stuff.

[01:54:11] James: in a bag or in a jar or like,

[01:54:15] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:54:16] James: Or something, right?

[01:54:17] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:54:19] James: Yeah, that was, that was what I was thinking.

[01:54:23] Ka-Ce: All good theories. So, like some of us, a lot of us, Celaena closed her book with a sigh because it had a terrible ending. And how much you want to bet she might have thrown that book across the room as well?

[01:54:40] James: I’ve never thrown a book.

[01:54:42] Ka-Ce: No,

[01:54:43] James: Nope.

[01:54:45] Ka-Ce: I might have thrown a math book or two, um, in frustration. We’ve all been there. Don’t, don’t deny it. Celaena finds herself a mess after her last confrontation with Chaol. And I mean, who wouldn’t? Um, how could she go from the most feared prisoner in Endovier to such a sappy mess?

[01:55:09] James: Um,

[01:55:10] Ka-Ce: yeah, I think she’s feeling all the feelings now that she’s out of the salt mines.

[01:55:15] James: well, yeah, she’s around people who are like people, not shells of people.

[01:55:20] Ka-Ce: Yeah,

[01:55:21] James: you know? And,

[01:55:24] Ka-Ce: yeah, yeah, it’s a hard transition. I mean, there’s, she’s dealing with a lot still. Since the death of the Eye Eater, um, Celaena has retrofitted her suite some more. You know, altering the hinges so that they squeak, She was able to get some sewing needles, and she embedded them into a bar of soap to make a pike.

[01:55:46]And to help settle her unease with approaching, the approaching test, um, and her fight with Chaol, she approached the pianoforte. Pianoforte? Pianofort.

[01:55:58] James: uh, I honestly, [01:56:00]I say piano fort, but that could be wrong. I don’t

[01:56:04] Ka-Ce: Let us know how to actually say that word. Um,

[01:56:09] James: it might be pianoforte, cause I think that there’s a note, note naming convention in sheet music. And I think it’s called Forte in piano sheet music.

[01:56:23] Ka-Ce: that makes sense.

[01:56:24] James: So it was probably

[01:56:25] Ka-Ce: pianoforte.

[01:56:26] James: it’s probably piano forte.

[01:56:28] Ka-Ce: Um, so she approaches, she used to be really good and her thoughts turn

[01:56:35] James: I used to be really good too.

[01:56:37] Ka-Ce: You were, you were.

[01:56:39] James: I understand her pain actually with with this because you know Yeah, I mean, I didn’t work at a salt mine or anything, but uh,

[01:56:49] Ka-Ce: But going to college

[01:56:50] James: get it like

[01:56:51] Ka-Ce: and stuff. Yeah.

[01:56:53] James: do and I miss it. You know like you sit down and you’re like In your mind, you’re like, Oh, I know how to do this. And then you put your fingers up there and you’re like, the hell do I do? So,

[01:57:09] Ka-Ce: was never that good. I used to write the letters of the keys on my halmoni’s piano. And I would write on my music books like I couldn’t remember

[01:57:19] James: Oh, I always wrote in the music books too. Cause yeah, I just, I can read the music. I just can’t read it fast enough to as I play it.

[01:57:28] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:57:29] James: But yeah.

[01:57:33] Ka-Ce: so slowly, Celaena starts to play. And she finds that her hands haven’t forgotten. and she finds herself playing the song that she used to play over and over and over. Music voicing the unspeakable. And I think a lot of us have been there, getting lost in music or in dance or in creating art, you know, painting or crocheting, drawing, [01:58:00]sculpting.

[01:58:01]It’s very healing and very therapeutic. Even getting lost in books, you know, as I am also prone to do, um, and since getting out of Endovier, Celaena just hasn’t had time and she hasn’t really stopped to deal with any of her feelings or anything regarding the betrayal, Sam’s death, or the trauma of being a slave.

[01:58:25]Um, so I think, I think all of this was just a long time coming for her and I’m honestly surprised that she hadn’t had a mental breakdown. Yet.

[01:58:37] James: Yeah, I mean, they came and they were like, you’ve been in the mines for a year. Okay, you’re out of the mines, get on this horse, come into the castle. You’re competing to be the champion. Here’s a room. Here’s a thing. Clean yourself up. Train. It’s like

[01:58:52] Ka-Ce: here’s some tests, somebody was murdered, somebody also was shot to death in front of you, like, it has just been one thing after

[01:58:59] James: Yeah, she hasn’t had a chance to stop like

[01:59:02] Ka-Ce: There is no calling a mental break day for her.

[01:59:05] James: No Yeah, and she can’t call in sick. Like that

[01:59:11] Ka-Ce: she has no PTO.

[01:59:12] James: That is not the world. She lives in. So, yeah, I mean,

[01:59:21] Ka-Ce: True to his word, Dorian shows up to her room that night, as promised. And he’d been listening to her play for quite a while. And she’s so wrapped up in her playing that she doesn’t hear him come in, which with the squeaky door hinges, I don’t know, um,

[01:59:39] James: she let down the entire Assassin’s Guild with that.

[01:59:43] Ka-Ce: I mean, like, I, piano playing can be loud and it can be soft. I’m not, you know, I, I don’t know, to me, I’m assuming that she’s playing something very melodic and not like death metal on the [02:00:00]piano forte. You know, she’s not like sitting there hammering it. She’s like, that, that’s what I’m picturing. so even wrapped up in your thoughts and in the music, I would still think like, the squeaky hinges of the doors would catch your attention. Could be wrong.

[02:00:19] James: yeah, I mean, yeah, she, she’s not wearing headphones, like

[02:00:22] Ka-Ce: no, no. so he came with the intention of embarrassing a snide assassin because he’s a prince and he’s also a little s***, but instead he found a young woman pouring her secrets out. I would say pouring her heart out into the piano forte, and he sli slid into the bench next to her and startling her so bad that she raced halfway across her room, um,

[02:00:52] James: she’s like, I will kill you.

[02:00:54] Ka-Ce: with the cue stick. and he notes her wet eyes, and seeing her turn red. and so he he knows that that he’s walked in on something. But he’s still, um, Dorian,

[02:01:13] James: You have a problem with the men in this book.

[02:01:16] Ka-Ce: I love them and love to hate them, but okay, so he knows that she has been emotional and she’s been pouring her heart out and he’s been listening to this and he notes the wetness in her face and he’s still like, um, I can still embarrass her like I planned to tonight. Come on,

[02:01:37] James: I’m on the fence about that because

[02:01:43]I don’t know if I would be better than him or not.

[02:01:48] Ka-Ce: you’re such a s***.

[02:01:52] James: you come in with the, with the thing and you go, oh, okay, this is sad. But then you see the opportunity come [02:02:00]up again and you’re like, opportunity. It’s hard to resist, especially when your inner being is being a s***. You don’t know, you don’t understand,

[02:02:18] Ka-Ce: Instead of being like, she’s clearly very emotional. Maybe I should lend an ear and maybe help comfort. He’s like, nah, how can I embarrass her some more? Because she’s not already embarrassed at, at having being caught of being

[02:02:38] James: but he may, he may have also been looking at it as like, uh, if I try to comfort her, she might look at that and close up and be like, no, that’s a weakness. I can’t take comfort in the Prince who is also my sponsor. And also, you know, so if he comes in and he’s like, okay, let’s take an awkward situation and make it even more awkward. It’s going to be super awkward, but immediately after when the tension goes down, then you’re like, you’re an asshole. And then the other one’s like, yeah, I know, but that’s almost better,

[02:03:18] Ka-Ce: yeah,

[02:03:19] James: than, than your sponsor looking at you with pity. She doesn’t want pity.

[02:03:26] Ka-Ce: no, she doesn’t.

[02:03:27] James: I think that’s, that could have been where his mind went to, like, it was an opportunity to help her save face.

[02:03:37] Ka-Ce: Mm, and break the tension, yeah,

[02:03:40] James: but also he still got to be a s***,

[02:03:43] Ka-Ce: yeah,

[02:03:44] James: like, I could, I could see him doing that with the way that he. Looks, you know, at things,

[02:03:53] Ka-Ce: That makes sense. Uh, Prince Dorian asserts that he is a crown prince and that he never jokes [02:04:00]and he’s allowed to do what he likes, including visiting her without Chaol around. She still seems uncomfortable, practically hiding behind the chair. But she does learn from Dorian that the king is the one that gave the command to kill any competitor trying to make a run for it.

[02:04:18]That command was not given by Chaol. Chaol would not have ever given that order. Dorian does try to ask, casually, how her and Chaol are getting along. and Celaena is convinced that Chaol hates her, but given his position, she is not surprised. So I don’t, do you think that Dorian’s picking up on something with Chaol? Or do you think he’s just asking for his own benefit because, you know, he’s been noticing Celaena and how beautiful she is and her curves and, and how, you know, talented she is and other things besides killing people. and even their banter is different than what her and Chaol’s banter is like.

[02:05:04] James: I think,

[02:05:09]you know, at this point it’s a little hard to tell, because the interactions between Celaena and Chaol have been so like on a professional basis at this point, but Dorian knows that they’re spending a lot of time together based

[02:05:25] Ka-Ce: Mhm.

[02:05:26] James: on necessity, right? And so Dorian is probably looking at it. Like you’re spending a lot of time with him. How do you feel about that? He only gets to see her occasionally when he’s not being wrangled into, you know, meeting more court ladies by his mother.

[02:05:46] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[02:05:47] James: Um, and so I, I feel like this could also be him trying to feel out the situation, kind of getting an idea of, Where things are, you know, [02:06:00]like where do you stand with Chaol?

[02:06:01]Where do you think he stands with you? Where do you think I stand with you? You know, like, you know what I mean? Like That’s gonna be great for the subtitles Oh No,

[02:06:16] Ka-Ce: going to use that for social media.

[02:06:20] James: I meant the when I went well, he well

[02:06:24] Ka-Ce: I’m definitely also using that for social.

[02:06:26] James: I think that Dorian has to catch up on what’s going on because he does not see them every day. And so he is trying to figure out where things are so that he knows where his best place to be is, because, you know, if she says, Oh yeah, I don’t like him and he don’t like me, then, then Dorian’s like, I could like you, you know, but if she comes back and says, oh man, we’ve been grand, we’ve been getting along and, you know, and it’s been great and then Dorian can go now I got to kill Chaol.

[02:07:09]Yeah. No, not really. But you know what I mean? Like, cause he doesn’t see all of the interactions they have. He’s not there for their runs. He’s not there for their trainings. He’s not there for the lunchtimes except for like a couple. I mean. Or dinners or whatever, right? So I think it’s just him trying to figure out the situation and where, where things are.

[02:07:36]Where do things stand

[02:07:38] Ka-Ce: Okay. Yeah.

[02:07:40] James: Do they absolutely hate each other’s guts? Like, is this not working at all?

[02:07:45] Ka-Ce: Or do they hate each other, but it is working.

[02:07:48] James: yeah,

[02:07:49] Ka-Ce: She is, she is, you know, packing on the muscles and she is reacquainting herself with all the weapons and everything necessary to win. [02:08:00]Yeah. I can see that.

[02:08:04] James: it’s field work.

[02:08:07] Ka-Ce: It

[02:08:07] James: He’s just trying to figure out what’s going on. Um, that’s how I look at it.

[02:08:16] Ka-Ce: Yeah. Okay. Uh, Dorian claims that she’s being prickly, um, especially after how they get into how she’d rather not be known for being one of his lovers. And he takes offense to that. so he tries to ask her about the piano forte playing and the piece that she played with so sad. Was it about his secret lover? And Celaena scolds him telling him that yes, it was for someone. But she is not to be gawked at. She isn’t some new adventure for Dorian. I look like I’m having an earthquake.

[02:08:54] James: Oh, who’s, is Liam back or?

[02:08:57] Ka-Ce: No, it’s Princess Monster. Uh, she’s on my desk scratching away. Um, she is not to be gawked at. She isn’t some new adventure for Dorian and Dorian is surprised because no one has ever spoken to him this way.

[02:09:11] James: yeah, all the ladies that he’s encountered are like, please conquer me and he’s like that that’s not

[02:09:18] Ka-Ce: it’s not a challenge.

[02:09:19] James: you say that, then I’m not conquering you. Like you’re offering your wares.

[02:09:26] Ka-Ce: Yea, I think he like’s being called out. I think

[02:09:29]it’s refreshing for him. Like, it’s a challenge. So, Dorian takes his leave and teasingly asks her if her lover doesn’t live in the castle. And he notices the light die from her eyes and he instantly knew that he said the wrong thing. See, I feel like he catches on, he catches [02:10:00]onto all the subtle behaviors and everything. And that stuff just like washes right over Chaol.

[02:10:06] James: I mean, you gotta, Dorian was raised to catch that stuff. You know, he’s,

[02:10:12] Ka-Ce: like though, that as captain of the guard, you have to be able to read people to know if they’re going to be a threat or not.

[02:10:18] James: I think Chaol would be looking for different indicators. He’s going to be looking for more, um, physical movements, moves of aggression, body tensing, um, noticing the change of somebody’s expression is such a subtle change, you know, when, when you have a person who’s standing somewhere and you’re watching them as a soldier or whatever, and, and you think, okay, threat, not threat, when a person is preparing to do something, most of the time, you’ll see that change in their body as they

[02:11:00]prepare.

[02:11:00]Right? The muscles.

[02:11:03] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[02:11:05] James: But when, when you’re talking about a change in somebody’s demeanor and their attitude, literally a lot of times, nothing in the body changes.

[02:11:12]It’s literally just going from an expression to expressionless.

[02:11:21] Ka-Ce: Mm-Hmm.

[02:11:22] James: it’s, it’s two different Skill sets Chaol’s not watching for that. He’s watching for other changes. That’s I don’t

[02:11:32] Ka-Ce: I, yeah,

[02:11:33] James: It’s hard to explain, but like, but I, I get it, you know, but

[02:11:37] Ka-Ce: yeah. No, I guess that makes sense. I just. I would have figured if you are in the business of having to watch people in order to assess if they’re a threat or not, you would be picking up on even the subtle things of like the eyes and whatnot just because like

[02:11:58] James: I think maybe [02:12:00]Brullo would be somebody who would notice,

[02:12:03] Ka-Ce: with his years of

[02:12:04] James: but Chaol is Chaol is still so young

[02:12:07]and lacking

[02:12:09]in, in real world interpersonal relationships. And Dorian has grown up in a court. Where your own family will cut your throat if it means that they can get ahead, right? I mean, maybe not. Well, I mean, basically, all the court ladies, Duke Perrington, all the ambassadors from the conquered, he has grown up watching. That difference in behavior with how people act and, and I think that would make him more in tune with catching those kinds of changes in a person’s attitude, because how many times do you think he watched that as a person came to the king and was like, you know, you know, we submit this is this and that’s that.

[02:12:59]And the king just sits there and goes, no, and he had to watch people being crushed, you know, by the king, like. By a word. So he’s, I would think much more in tune with that whole kind of a thing.

[02:13:21] Ka-Ce: That makes sense. I get that. so Celaena tells him that this lover, uh, his name was Sam and he died 13 months ago. And Dorian feels bad because I mean, Dorian’s smart. He can, he can do the math and he never would have teased her if he had known. He wishes her good luck for the test the next day. And he leaves, and when he returns to his room, he burns the names of all the suitors that his mom had given him.

[02:13:55]He’s just like, nope. And he can’t get the music that [02:14:00]Celaena played out of his mind. Not even when he read long into the night. That is where we end Chapter 20 on a haunting note.

[02:14:13] James: but also character development.

[02:14:15] Ka-Ce: Yes.

[02:14:16] James: I, I did like seeing, I think it was a, a nice development for Dorian as a stand, I guess, where, where he’s like, I don’t want to play this game. So just burning the list was like this little act of defiance. Like I’m not. I’m not going to do this. I’m not gonna like, there’s just not, it’s just not,

[02:14:45] Ka-Ce: Yeah,

[02:14:47] James: whether he’ll be successful or not.

[02:14:49]We’ll see. But, we’re seeing him, you know, coming out a little bit. I think she’s doing that to him. He,

[02:14:59] Ka-Ce: I feel like he’s maturing in front of our eyes a little bit, like he’s not like he is self centered in a way, but he is starting to realize that’s only going to get him so far. And if he wants meaningful relationships, regardless if their, you know, romantic or not. Then he can’t be all about him, and he has to mature and grow and take other people’s feelings and stuff into consideration.

[02:15:36] James: well, yeah, and, and, I mean, he’s had somebody now a couple of times say no to him

[02:15:42] Ka-Ce: Mm hmm.

[02:15:43] James: and just flat out be like, I’m not going to be one of your whores.

[02:15:46] Ka-Ce: Mm hmm.

[02:15:48] James: And he’s like, excuse you and ouch, but it makes him then look at that and, and think, you know what, [02:16:00]it doesn’t have to be like this.

[02:16:04] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[02:16:04] James: can do better. I can, you know, I like, I like her, her, um, presence is, is forcing him and Chaol to, to, um, to grow and, and become, um, more independent, you know,

[02:16:25] Ka-Ce: Mm hmm.

[02:16:26] James: of their worldview.

[02:16:27]So

[02:16:27] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[02:16:29] James: I do, I like it. It’s good character development.

[02:16:31] Ka-Ce: It, she’s challenging both of them, which is great. I love to see it.

[02:16:37] James: So that, uh, that wraps up chapters 14 through 20 of Throne of Glass, and we covered a lot, actually, in this. Actually, I feel like my voice is getting kind of raspy from, from talking so much. Um, but we’ve seen, you know, a lot of progression with the, the champion or the competitors, uh, with their tests.

[02:17:04]We’re seeing people, you know, um. We’re kind of getting an idea of how these tests might be working.

[02:17:12] Ka-Ce: Mm hmm.

[02:17:12] James: Um, you know, what’s the purpose behind them? Are they all going to be this easy? Or are they all gonna, you know, just be random things? Who knows at this point. we have an unsolved murder. We have more backstory on the characters and maybe a budding romance, but I’m leaning more towards friendship right now at this point.

[02:17:37]But there is definitely a budding relationship, um, possible love triangle. Well, we’ll see. we got to see, you know, a lot more into the backstory of Lady Kaltain and her very, um, [02:18:00]uh, well, what do I say? The, the jeopardy that she has put herself into. because when, when, when the collector comes to collect, she’s not gonna be ready for that.

[02:18:12]and it’s mostly just because I just, I don’t see Dorian swinging to her side, honestly.

[02:18:20] Ka-Ce: Nope. I don’t either.

[02:18:21] James: There, there’s, the minute that, um, that we had the exchange where Perrington was like, Can I get a little bit of, you know, that thing that you promised me? I was like, Oh no, girl, you screwed yourself. You shouldn’t, you should not have made that deal

[02:18:40] Ka-Ce: Nope. No.

[02:18:42] James: is not looking at you.

[02:18:43]He’s not coming to your side. I did not see that ending. I don’t see that ending well for her at all, honestly. Like,

[02:18:52] Ka-Ce: No. I, I feel like. Duke Perrington is a very tenacious,

[02:18:57] James: I

[02:18:58] Ka-Ce: impatient man. He gets what he

[02:19:00] James: oh yeah, he’s a man in power. He’s, he’s gonna, yeah. He’s not going to give up on that.

[02:19:08] Ka-Ce: No.

[02:19:08] James: So what do you guys think? What are your thoughts, theories, ideas? You can let us know in the comments on our, uh, our video. I think on our YouTube video. you can also send us an email at hello@bookscatsandchaos.com.

[02:19:27]com. As always, we want to say thank you for joining us. We really appreciate you guys tuning in and listening to us ramble about our thoughts and ideas on, on the story. And. You know, the progression of the characters and, you know, how it all goes, um, we’re, you know, we’re having fun talking about it. So hopefully you guys have some fun listening.

[02:19:53]Um, next episode, we’ll be going through chapters 21 through 26. [02:20:00]It’s gonna start off with Celaena going into her next test. Um, and again, we don’t know what the test is gonna be right off the bat. are we gonna find out any information about who, who murdered the Eye Eater? Is this gonna be a trend? Are we gonna just see competitors starting to get picked off here?

[02:20:23]Like, you know, was this a one off thing? Or, or somebody got a grudge? I mean, who knows? Um, And yeah, and we’re going to get some more, you know, uh, obviously some more interaction between our three main characters and, and some more backstory on some other characters. So.

[02:20:50] Ka-Ce: Sounds good. We have,

[02:20:51]a lot

[02:20:51]to look forward to. Please remember to like, subscribe and comment. We are again on YouTube and our podcasting Spotify and,Apple podcast. We are also on Instagram and Tik TOK. So find us. On all your social media platforms, your ratings and likes really do mean a lot to us. So if you like what you hear so far, please share with your family and friends and make sure to rate and like us.

[02:21:20]and as we head out, as we, like to close out our programs, we do like to mention our friends over at K911 ResQ.. They are a rescue that is devoted to the cats and dogs that are often overlooked. They are the seniors, the handicapped, the ones, with special needs and everything that K911 ResQ, you know, they do this out of the goodness of the heart.

[02:21:48]Sabrina and Chris do work full time jobs and they also run this rescue full-time by themselves. so if you are looking to adopt foster, volunteer, or would like to make a [02:22:00]donation, every little bit helps, um, that is K911ResQ.com and we will link them in the show notes.

[02:22:11] James: All right, sounds great, and thanks again for joining us, and we will see you, or talk to you, talk at you, next time.

[02:22:25] Ka-Ce: Take care.

[02:22:44]