Ep 3 Fourth Wing: Ch 13 – 18

[00:00:21] James: Hello, and welcome back to Books, Cats, and Chaos, the podcast where we explore epic tales, messed up humor, and embrace the love of cats and all things cats. I am James,

[00:00:43] Ka-Ce: And I am Ka-Ce. And we are a husband and wife team, who love all things books, cats, brews, and the fun chaos that comes in between.

[00:00:53] James: and sometimes the not fun, but mostly the fun. If you are new here, we just want to let you know, or remind you, that on Tuesdays we are still covering the Throne of Glass series and we are currently on, Crown of Midnight. We’ve gotten through the first couple chapters of that, and the story is already off the rails, so join us for that if you are looking to either get into Throne of Glass, or you just want to relive the world because you miss it.

[00:01:29] Because it’s a good world, let’s be frank. But, tonight, we are diving back into Fourth Wing. hopefully you have read up to at least chapter 18. It’s okay if you’ve read the whole book. it’s also okay if you’ve read the whole series. However, well, the series so far. However, we will not be discussing things from anything past [00:02:00] chapter 18.

[00:02:01] we are doing our very best to make this as spoiler free as possible, so that people who are joining us for the first time, like myself, there’s a lot of booktalk, husbands, boyfriends, girlfriends, who did not jump on this bandwagon when it first came out, and only recently have we started to enjoy the Fourth Wing series.

[00:02:24] Or I guess the Empyrean series, sorry. Although, being said, I only started reading this like a month ago, and I’m already up in Onyx Storm, so, you know.

[00:02:37] Ka-Ce: It’s one of those series that once you pick it up, you cannot put it down.

[00:02:40] James: Yeah. So, we will not be, uh, discussing anything from the other two books. It’s only going to be things from Chapter 18 and back, as we get through it. Um.

[00:02:55] Ka-Ce: For the most part.

[00:02:56] James: Well, I mean, we do drop hints here and there about things that you should keep a close eye on because it is almost impossible to not just look at something and be like, oh, that was the and the ooh, and the ee, and the, yeah, there’s too much of that.

[00:03:13] So while we won’t spoil things directly, we will tell you to pay attention to things, particularly if you are farther along in the series.

[00:03:25] And we will have a future episode, or episodes, where we discuss, everything all at once together at the same time. Everything everywhere all at once.

[00:03:36] Ka-Ce: Yes, so We will have our normal deep dive through the chapters, um, and we are planning a fourth wing Iron Flame, just like a theories, predictions, crossover things that we’ve noticed, once you read Iron Flame some of the scenes in fourth wing take on a whole new light, so we will be discussing [00:04:00] those sort of things in a podcast episode without having to do, like, Each chapter deep dives.

[00:04:06] And then we’ll do another one that covers Onyx Storm, what we learn in Onyx Storm, and how that pertained to Fourth Wing and Iron Flame. Other things that we might have picked up, you know, during rereads and whatnot. As well as, you know, what our thoughts and theories and predictions are, for the next two books that will be coming out.

[00:04:28] James: There’s already stuff I’m looking at as I’m reading Onyx Storm and, going back and going, oh, did they, did they talk about that in fourth wing? Damn, they did!

[00:04:39] Ka-Ce: Yeah, there’s a lot that goes into each three books, so there is a lot to cover. so if you have any thoughts and theories that you would like us to discuss or bring up, please feel free to email us, DM us. We are on social media. We would love to hear your thoughts and theories. but as we do move forward with the deep dives right now, we are only focusing. On Fourth wing, and then once we get to Iron Flame, then we will discuss things from Iron Flame only and Fourth wing. And then we will move on to Onyx Storm, because we don’t want to spoil anything for anybody, as James said.

[00:05:19] James: It’s a journey that you need to take.

[00:05:21] Ka-Ce: It really is. It’s an incredible journey. It’s a frustrating journey.

[00:05:27] James: It is. I am already frustrated in Onyx Storm.

[00:05:32] Ka-Ce: And you’re just at the very beginning.

[00:05:34] James: I know.

[00:05:35] Ka-Ce: Just wait. As a content reminder, this podcast is for adult audiences only, as we will be using adult language, curse words, to discuss adult topics, contents, themes, and more. Fourth Wing has violence and sex and we will be discussing those topics. If you are new here, our format is pretty simple.

[00:05:58] We do a recap of the [00:06:00] chapter before heading into our thoughts, theories, and predictions of what’s to come. And then we move right into the next chapter. Recycle, rinse, repeat.

[00:06:10] James: Recycle, reuse, reduce.

[00:06:12] Ka-Ce: Yea that too.

[00:06:14]

[00:06:14] James: if you haven’t already but you do like what you hear so far, please don’t forget to rate, subscribe, or comment on any of our social media channels like Ka-Ce said. we try to respond pretty much everywhere. And we like to put up fun stuff for everybody, so. It’s good times. Fun times for everybody. So, on that note, Cadets, it’s time to earn those wings.

[00:06:37] It’s threshing time.

[00:06:40] Ka-Ce: Chapter 13. October 1st. No matter where it falls on the calendar, it’s threshing day. It’s the day the cadets wander the field to see if they have been selected by a dragon. Professor Kaori advises the cadets to listen to their heart. If a dragon has already selected them, they will be calling. And if the cadet’s feelings say to go another way, listen to that too. Rhiannon is going to go for one of the green dragons that had approached Violet at presentation, but Violet doesn’t have any feelings pulling her towards one dragon or another. Dain tried talking her into approaching a brown dragon. But Rhi told her that Dain lost his vote when he tried to talk her into leaving. Kaori also advised not to go into groups, as they are more likely to be incinerated that way. And predictably, Jack, Oren, and Tynan make threatening gestures at Violet, because Threshing Day is also the day that cadets take out vendettas against each other. So, real original, guys. Before they depart, Rhi, Violet, and Ridoc hug each other and wish each other luck. After several hours, Violet hasn’t had any luck, and she climbs up a tree Katniss Everdeen style to take a look around. And what does she spot in the distance? The golden feathertail that was present at [00:08:00] presentation. As she climbs down, she happens to overhear the played out trio, Jack, Oren, and Tynan, talking about killing the Feathertail versus looking for their own dragons. For fuck’s sake. Jack says that Feathertail is unrideable, a certified freak, and Feathertails are useless in combat as they refuse to fight. Violet notes that no one knows anything about Feathertails, so doesn’t know where Jack is getting his information from, but she doesn’t have time to focus on that.

[00:08:29] She needs to find the Golden One first and warn it away. We will be talking about this a little bit today and later on in the book, so Tab that please, uh, because we do need to talk about where did he get his information from? Violet can’t contact Kaori or any other professor or senior rider, so she runs towards where she saw the golden one, chirping and rolling her ankle along the way. Violet just makes it before the stooges and tries to warn the golden dragon away, but the dragon isn’t being swayed. Jack unsheathes his sword and tells them he will make it painless. Violet tells the dragon to roast them with its fire, but it doesn’t, and Violet suddenly feels like the dragon can’t shoot flame. Fuck. Violet tries to reason with the boys, riders do not kill dragons, but Jack is dead set against letting the weak live, meaning both her and the golden one. The menacing trio lift their swords, Violet lifts her daggers, and suddenly a voice, his voice, demands I would strongly recommend you rethink your actions. Her scalp prickles as everyone’s gaze swings to Xaden and his terrifying navy blue daggertail. Threshing day is fun.

[00:09:52] James: This is another one of those things where it’s just like, How many students can we kill today?

[00:09:57] Ka-Ce: Yeah. Let’s just throw [00:10:00] all the cadets out into the field to either get picked or killed by a dragon and they’re gonna kill each other too. I feel like there should have been more rules in place.

[00:10:14] James: There should have been more rules in place along this whole process.

[00:10:19] Ka-Ce: That reminds me, there’s a TikTok of I think he’s a lawyer. There’s something who also picked up.

[00:10:26] James: I know exactly who you’re talking about, and yeah.

[00:10:29] Ka-Ce: He’s like, all the lawsuits and all of the things.

[00:10:33] James: Yeah, yeah, he’s just like, nope, nope, this would not go forward.

[00:10:39] Ka-Ce: So. Look, I don’t remember his name, but look for his TikTok. He’s a lawyer, and he’s read Fourth Wing, and he just, he’s like, the amount of stuff that would not fly in a normal college, the amount of, like,

[00:10:56] HR related things and whatnot, and the amount of deaths of students, like, this is just wrong. It’s a great video.

[00:11:05] James: Yeah, it really is.

[00:11:09] Ka-Ce: So, Violet, who has trained to be a scribe her whole life, doesn’t know much about feathertails. And Kaori, a professor who has studied dragons as much as they allow him, also doesn’t know much about feathertails. So, to me, it’s oddly suspicious that Jack, out of all people, says that they are useless in combat as they refuse to fight. How does he know this? And where did he learn this, or is he guessing? I mean, you can, they’ve already looked, you know, based on the feathertail’s size and everything that it can’t carry a rider. It’s too small to carry a rider. But how do they know that they refuse to fight in combat? That was just [00:12:00] a, interesting little tidbit that he says.

[00:12:03] James: I always figured that it was just him because he’s kind of like the ringleader of this little group of miscreants.

[00:12:11] Ka-Ce: Mm,

[00:12:13] James: I just figured that he was talking crap because he was just trying to, justify killing this thing.

[00:12:20] Ka-Ce: okay.

[00:12:21]

[00:12:21] James: Just, you know, nobody knows anything about feathertails, just plain and simple.

[00:12:26] Um, and I could see somebody like, and this isn’t the first time that Jack has kind of just talked nonsense and then has been shut down.

[00:12:34] Like, he’s been shut down in Battle Brief before, and

[00:12:37] Ka-Ce: That’s true.

[00:12:38] James: Was it battle brief or was it one of the history classes or something? But he runs his mouth and so I could see him with his two, you know, companions and being like, yeah, no, come on guys, we gotta kill him anyway, because look at the size of him and, and they don’t fight anyway.

[00:12:55] And you know, just kind of like playing it up so that they’d come in here and do this and then they wouldn’t be as likely to chicken out or, or. something, you know what I mean?

[00:13:09] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:13:10] James: That’s kind of how I looked at it, just him being, just being Jack, and just, yeah.

[00:13:19] Ka-Ce: I, like, So, everybody knows that fewer and fewer dragons are bonding each year, but the number of riders entering the quadrant is higher each year. So why are they so pressed to kill this golden one? To kill this small gold dragon? Instead of trying to find a dragon to bond on their own? Knowing That less dragons are willing to bond.

[00:13:47] It just seems like a stupid risk on their part, especially if they’re caught. Don’t you think the dragons would be pissed if they caught them killing the small gold one? And [00:14:00] that would just ruin all chances of ever bonding.

[00:14:03] James: Yeah. there’s that. um (gathers thoughts)

[00:14:07] But at the same time, they were talking about killing, not them, but, remember Tynan and, Luca, and They were like, we should just kill it while they were doing the presentation. They were like, we should just kill it. And they were saying that in front of all the dragons.

[00:14:22] Ka-Ce: That is true

[00:14:23] James: And nothing happened.

[00:14:24] You know, I mean, Luca and, and Pryor, got torched. But it was for completely different reasons. so who knows? You know, did the dragons have a code of like If you can’t fend them off yourself, then you deserve what happened to you. Does it, I mean,

[00:14:45] Ka-Ce: So, at this point, we readers, and Violet, because we’re reading through her eyes, don’t know what feathertails are at this point. But the dragons clearly do. So

[00:14:58] it really did surprise

[00:14:59] me that the dragons didn’t react during presentation, and that more dragons weren’t around at threshing. And maybe the gold one snuck off because it wanted to view, like, what Threshing was or whatever. But you’d think they, somebody would have seen something, somewhere, because the golden one doesn’t really blend in to the fall surroundings. She kind of stands out.

[00:15:28] James: True.

[00:15:29] Ka-Ce: Alright. Xaden comes sweeping in at the last minute. How did he know where to find them, unless he was tracking them? And Xaden is not allowed to interfere, as well, as a senior rider, and as a wing leader. There’s no interference during threshing. Does the same rules apply to Sgaeyl, his dragon? Dragons are known to make their own rules. They don’t, they don’t listen to humans, [00:16:00] especially if they’re going to defend one of their own.

[00:16:04] James: I figured that Xaden was either tracking Violet, because we still don’t know what his deal is with her. And again, how hard would it be to, oh, she tripped over a tree and cracked her neck, well, You know, I mean, he still hasn’t, done anything to try and kill her, but the thought’s there, you know, we still, we still don’t know

[00:16:29] Ka-Ce: And threshing would be a good way to cover something up.

[00:16:32] James: right? my other thought was, the dragons probably can, can, can communicate with each other the way that we can communicate, you know, humans talk to each other. And so maybe, maybe his dragon led him there because she knew. That there was, a feathertail, which is just unheard of, and maybe his dragon was getting ready to step in?

[00:17:00] If, who knows, but I figure, it’s one of the two. It’s either he was tracking Violet, or his dragon was like, no, we’re going this way.

[00:17:10] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:17:11] James: It’s not like he could really argue with her, you know, and be like, no. Dragon’s like, okay fine, I’m going over there.

[00:17:18] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:17:22] James: So, you know. In one way or another, they’re either tracking her, or they’re tracking the dragon.

[00:17:32] Ka-Ce: Or another thought just came up. Was he tracking the boys? And that is something we will have to discuss after Iron Flame.

[00:17:43] James: I, that could be, actually. Uh, that’s another thought to think, but don’t want to spoil it, so.

[00:17:54] Ka-Ce: So tag this for now if you are following along.

[00:17:59] James: okay. [00:18:00] Chapter 14.

[00:18:04] The sight of Xaden fills Violet with hope. He won’t let this happen. He’s a wing leader. He can’t just watch them kill a dragon. But his earlier words come back to her. Hope is a fickle thing. She needs to focus on probabilities. Violet asks the gold dragon to back her up with its claws, and then realizes she doesn’t have claws.

[00:18:29] Jack roars and is the first to attack. Violet whips a dagger towards him and it embeds in his shoulder on his sword arm. He drops the sword and hits his knees. Tynan and Oren charge at the same time. Her dagger catches Tynan in the thigh, but he keeps coming. Oren swings his sword, and if it weren’t for her dragon armor, she’d be a goner.

[00:18:55] Jack runs like a little bitch, unable to use his arm. Vi continues to fight Tynan and Oren. Xaden shouts, behind you! Violet pivots, but the golden dragon snaps at Oren, making him back away. Vi uses the distraction to knock Oren out. Tynan shouts at Xaden, telling him that he can’t interfere. Xaden retorts that he can narrate.

[00:19:22] You gotta love the technical loopholes.

[00:19:25] Ka-Ce: He is so good at those.

[00:19:27] James: Sgaeyl is pissed. Her golden eye is fixed on Tynan. You know she wants to kill him on the spot. And maybe she’s also telling other dragons in the area. Who knows. Tynan charges Violet, and she’s out of options. She’s too injured. Xaden takes a step forward, as if he intends to stop Tynan, but then a gust of wind slams into Violet’s back, making her stumble forward on her injured ankle.

[00:19:57] Tynan stumbles backward [00:20:00] as shade envelops them both. And it is the unbonded huge black dragon that has landed, tucking the gold one under his wing. And, I’m sorry, that, that right there, I’m running for the trees. I’m like, nope, I’m out.

[00:20:19] A deep, gruff male voice enters Violet’s head, telling her to step aside, Silver One. She stumbles aside. Tynan runs screaming and is incinerated by dragon fire. And this was a long time coming. Like,

[00:20:36] Ka-Ce: It certainly was. He had it coming for, from, oh, he should have been toast on presentation day.

[00:20:43] James: Right. Maybe some, some of the dragons were like, no let that one live cuz it’s, it’s gonna happen.

[00:20:51] Umm, I Don’t remember, did it say that the three of them had already bonded dragons though at this point and they were just looking for

[00:21:03] Ka-Ce: No, because they were arguing about whether they should try to find dragons to bond with or go kill the golden

[00:21:10] James: Oh, because Jack wanted to bond with the big black dragon, but he can’t because he ran away like a little bitch.

[00:21:18] Ka-Ce: Well, you have to remember the big black dragon had no plans to bond.

[00:21:22] James: Well, no, yeah, that’s true. the black dragon tells Violet that she should end Oren at her feet. And she tells him that it is not her way. He’s already knocked out. Xaden and Sgaeyl take off without a word, leaving Violet on her own with not one, but two dragons. The dragon tells her to stop bleeding, and asks her if she bleeds often.

[00:21:46] She responds that she tries not to. He orders her to get on his back, and she finally realizes that this big black dragon is picking her, choosing her out of [00:22:00] Everyone. She barely comes up to his ankle. She’s injured. She doesn’t know how she’s going to get on. Violet tells him she can’t just leave the golden one.

[00:22:10] What if Jack comes back or Oren wakes up? And of course the golden dragon decides then to fly away. Because, you know, why not? the black dragon tells her to get on again and it won’t ask her again. As she struggles to figure out how to get on, he surprises her by stretching out his leg, making a ramp for her.

[00:22:33] She doesn’t hesitate. She gets on, finds the natural seat that the dragons have, and holds onto the thick, ridge scales that they call the pommel. His name is Tairneanach, a. k. a. Tairn. Did I say that wrong?

[00:22:51] Ka-Ce: I mean, it’s like the English pronunciation.

[00:22:54] James: and Noh or something?

[00:22:57] Ka-Ce: I, not, I don’t know how to do the correct Scottish Gaelic

[00:23:02] pronunciation,

[00:23:03] James: Ok, I’ll look that up later. he tells her his full name and lineage before launching into the sky. Violet tries to hang on for dear life, but she slips and she falls right off. yeah. So,

[00:23:17] Ka-Ce: Nice action packed, uh, chapter.

[00:23:19] James: Yea, I find it funny that Violet is a) scared of Xaden, because she still thinks that he’s gonna kill her at some point, but when he shows up, she’s immediately filled with hope.

[00:23:39] Ka-Ce: yes, there’s another scene in one of the chapters that we will be covering in this podcast where Where I think Tairn actually starts to, make fun of her about, about, Xaden because, you know, she’s always like, this wing wing leader’s an [00:24:00] asshole and, you know, fuck Xaden and he’s like, oh really?

[00:24:02] Because why does your heart rate suddenly, you know? And she cuts him off like, don’t you dare finish that sentence. Like, she doesn’t want to admit it to herself, you know? That she finds him attractive, and Yeah.

[00:24:20] James: Yeah. It’s, oh, such a, a, uh, long and convoluted journey that these characters have.

[00:24:30] Ka-Ce: Yup.

[00:24:31] James: So we definitely know that, uh, Xaden’s dragon, Sgaeyl, is upset about this development.

[00:24:40] Ka-Ce: Very much.

[00:24:40] James: But she didn’t step in to do anything. But it seems like she would have been fully within her right to do so. Because when Tairn showed up, he did not hesitate to take Tynan out.

[00:24:56] Ka-Ce: The only thing I can think of is that the senior riders and their dragons are not supposed to step in but as we are reminded time and time again Dragons do what they want. The dragons don’t answer to the humans. And, again, we don’t know a lot about feathertails at this point. But she’s clearly upset about what’s going on with this feathertail. So you would think that she would step in no matter what. If she wanted to.

[00:25:33] James: yeah, I mean, that’s what I figure would be like, Those are your human rules, I don’t like that you’re threatening one of my kin. Flame.

[00:25:44] Ka-Ce: Yea exactly

[00:25:45] James: I cast Fireball.

[00:25:48] Ka-Ce: So the only thing I can think of is, Tairn, who’s a non bonded dragon, was able to step in and roast who he wanted. That’s the only thing I can think of, [00:26:00] but I think that Sgaeyl should have been able to still at least alert, like, the professor’s dragons to what’s going on. Like, hey, you have these three cadets. That are actively trying to kill a dragon. Like, you should come in here. Or you should be alerted. You know, depending on what happens, these cadets should be court martialed, or executed, or whatever. Like,

[00:26:30] James: something

[00:26:32] Ka-Ce: riders don’t kill dragons. You are here at this war college in order to try to bond with dragons. Like, this is counter productive.

[00:26:42] James: No kidding, huh?

[00:26:47] No guys, we said Bond Dragons. Not, not,

[00:26:51] Ka-Ce: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:26:52] James: It’s not Dragon Hunting College. That’s the one over across the mountain.

[00:26:59] Ka-Ce: Um, so, I know you asked about Tairn’s full name, and if you pronounced it correctly. Um, so, a lot of the dragon names, and even the name, Basgiath, the War College, they’re all taken from Scottish Gaelic. some of the names are, like, a combination of Scottish Gaelic words. Like, Bas is Death, and Sgaeth is Wing, so Deathwing. Death college.

[00:27:28] James: It certainly is that.

[00:27:31] Ka-Ce: Um, we have Sgaeyl, which means shadow, Tairneanach means thunder, and Andarna, which is Andarnaurram, her full name, means the second An darna, urram, is honor, so the second honor. I do have to say, if you listen to our podcast for Throne of Glass, I got on my little soapbox about [00:28:00] using Gaelic, Gaelic names and holidays and not having A glossary in the books or having audio narrators pronouncing the words correctly, like, Samhain.

[00:28:12] James: You mean, salmon?

[00:28:14] Ka-Ce: Yeah. Sam Huin. Haha. And I still stand by this. I absolutely love the Empyrean series, and I think it would have benefited greatly to have a glossary, to have a Scottish pronunciation guide, especially for the dragon names. I think it would have kind of elevated the dragon names and made them a bit more, like, otherworldly, instead of, Englishifying Scottish names and Scottish words, especially when we take a look at the Irish and Scottish history and knowing what we do about how the English government, you know, has tried to eradicate the Irish and the Scottish, Scottish history and their language and their culture. So I think it would have been a great way to bring awareness. You know, I know Rebecca Yaros has talked about wanting to honor her Scottish history roots by having, Gaelic words as names and everything, and I admire that. I just think moving forward with, with fantasy books and series where we are taking other languages and using their words, their names. Even as a, um, uh, what’s the word? As just a base or, or anything

[00:29:42] James: Oh, yeah, the, um,

[00:29:47] Ka-Ce: as a ref.. Not a reference. what’s the word I’m looking

[00:29:50] James: I know, I know exactly what that is. I think of the word either. It’s, um, like inspiration.

[00:29:57] Ka-Ce: Yes, if we’re using other languages, [00:30:00] and I’m not talking about just the Irish and Scottish languages, any language, if we’re using them as inspiration, we should give credit where credit is due. And we should try to pronounce them. In that way, correctly, you know. and there are a lot of TikTok videos and a lot of YouTube videos of Scottish speakers who go on and pronounce these names correctly. And it’s so beautiful to hear. And then they give, you know, what the meanings are. and there is a Reddit post, we’ll try to link it in the show notes. somebody writes down like, all of the dragon names, and what their meanings are, and I think they link to maybe one or two, link to one or two TikTokers, um, and they have a dictionary and stuff, so. Highly encourage you to look those up. I will step off my soap soapbox, but I just think in the face of what the English tried to do to these cultures, to these languages, we should be trying to represent them correctly and not Englishifying… english pronouncing these, you know, Gaelic and Gaelic words and stuff since they were already trying to eradicate them.

[00:31:20] James: Well, a little pronunciation guide would also be nice because for people like me who looked at the word and says, I think that that’s the way, but that’s probably not the way. and so you know that you’re saying it wrong, but you don’t know what the right way is. And, when you’re reading a book, you don’t always want to stop and go and Google.

[00:31:43] The pronunciation of something and then figure it out and then come back and be like, okay, okay, here’s another one and let me go, you know, because it breaks up the flow of trying to enjoy the immersion into the world. So it would just be nice if there was [00:32:00] like a preface or something in the, or even in the back to just says like, you know, these are popular Scottish names and here is a phonetic like it’s

[00:32:10] Like, you know, Ann, Darna, Urim, like,

[00:32:15] Ka-Ce: Yea

[00:32:15] James: part one, part two.

[00:32:17] When you’re

[00:32:18] talking in Scottish language, when you have a CH together, it’s not a kuh, it’s a khaw, you know I mean? Like, um, average person doesn’t know that.

[00:32:29] Ka-Ce: And I think, too, providing narrators a pronunciation guide as well. And not being like, here’s what I think it sounds like and off you go. Like.

[00:32:43] James: Right, and, or,

[00:32:44] or, or, Taking something that is very clearly based off of a Scottish or Irish or any kind of word and saying, I know that this is the word and I know that the inspiration came from this thing, but in this world it’s said this way. Don’t do that. Just pick a different word. Make up a word.

[00:33:05] But if you’re going to use a word from a legitimate language that has been around for a while, And I say while, I mean hundreds of, if not thousands of years.

[00:33:19] Then do it that way. Either use the word the way that it’s supposed to be used, or make up a new word.

[00:33:25] Ka-Ce: Yeah

[00:33:26] James: That’s my opinion on that,

[00:33:29] you know.

[00:33:31] Ka-Ce: Yes, I agree.. With all that said… again, we love the Empyrean series and we love Fourth wing, and we love the world that Rebecca Yarros has created. Throughout our podcast journey, we will continue saying the names um, as Audio narrators have said them, only to continue with the continuity, and if we were to try to [00:34:00] pronounce them in the Scottish language, I think a lot of people would be like, who are you talking about?

[00:34:06] James: Yeah.

[00:34:07] Ka-Ce: That’s not fourth wing. So

[00:34:09] we will continue using the pronunciation from the audiobooks. but just know that these are Scottish words, and you should at least go and listen to some of the TikTokers who have said them in Scottish because it is actually quite beautiful.

[00:34:27] James: It is.

[00:34:29] Ka-Ce: Alright, I’m off my soapbox now. Thank you very much for listening.

[00:34:33] James: yes, so lots of stuff, um, was going on, um, what was I saying? Oh yeah, you know, Xaden filled with hope, er, not Xaden, Violet filled with hope after seeing Xaden even though she still thinks he’s going to kill her. I do find it, uh, Not fun I mean, it is funny, but it’s so classic that the ringleader, as soon as he’s hurt, he runs away and tells the others to take care of it.

[00:35:06] And they just do it.

[00:35:08] Ka-Ce: With no other thoughts, like, no thoughts for themselves.

[00:35:12] James: Yea.

[00:35:12] Ka-Ce: Like, Okay. You go run and

[00:35:15] save yourself, let me,

[00:35:16] James: If I was tynan or Oren and I just saw her

[00:35:21] And we don’t know how long, how far away, I mean she’s like 50 paces or more away from them, right? And she just whips out a dagger and flicks it and it embeds into his shoulder. And then the other one,

[00:35:32] Ka-Ce: and can no longer use his arm

[00:35:33] James: and then the other one goes into, um, into Tynan’s leg.

[00:35:36] Like,

[00:35:38] Um, right? It was Tynan’s leg, right?

[00:35:41] Um, if I’m Tynan or Oren,

[00:35:44] I’m looking at that and going, I, no, I can’t even get close to her. Like, I’m out. You know what I mean?

[00:35:53] Ka-Ce: I think at that point, it’s probably just a matter of pride and ego, like it would have to be. Ya [00:36:00] know, because all 3 of them are so much bigger than her, she’s 5’2”, weighs nothing, she’s trying not to move to not show that you know, she’s already hurt her ankle. So, two against one, that’s still better odds. And she’s tiny. She’s already thrown two of her daggers, how many more does she have on her? She can’t wield a sword. She doesn’t have a sword.

[00:36:24] James: That’s true.

[00:36:26] Ka-Ce: So yeah, I think at this point, it’s just pure ego and pride, but still, like, if my leader got injured, can’t use his arm and he runs away like a coward? Why would I stick around?

[00:36:41] James: I’m going after him.

[00:36:43] Ka-Ce: Either go after him, or say, fuck it, I’m gonna go and try to find my own dragon now.

[00:36:49] James: Yeah, right.

[00:36:51] Ka-Ce: But again, these guys are not known for thinking on their own, or having brains.

[00:37:02] James: And, I mean, It wouldn’t be a death college without death, would it? I mean,

[00:37:09] Ka-Ce: No.

[00:37:09] James: kind of how they weed them out, I guess.

[00:37:13] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:37:14] James: The thing is, is you can’t even say that they wouldn’t necessarily even bond with a dragon because the dragons bond for the weirdest damn reasons. Like, cause there are clearly people who should not be on dragons who are on dragons later.

[00:37:28] Ka-Ce: Yes.

[00:37:33] James: What did you think about, Xaden and his taking a step forward?

[00:37:42] Ka-Ce: Oh, baby I, I, was like, oh damn. He’s actually risking himself by moving forward. ’cause we are told, you know, like Dain came out and said, told Violet like [00:38:00] senior riders cannot step forward. They cannot inter intervene out there on the field. and here’s Xaden. He’s standing by, he’s watching this play out, and he’s already shouted at her, like, you know, behind you, or whatever, and he skirts by that by saying, I’m narrating.

[00:38:23] He’s not helping her, but he’s narrating. Um, and, and the fact that he takes a step forward, I was like, oh shit, he’s actually gonna do it. He’s gonna risk everything. And I mean, if he were to take care of Tynan, who’s gonna tell? Violet’s not gonna tell. Cause he would be saving her life.

[00:38:45] And that’s just another debt that she owes him. He could say, this is, this is my payment, you know. You haven’t said anything about the Marked Ones meeting under the Oak Tree. Consider us even now. And Sgaeyl’s not going to say anything to any other dragons, and I’m sure the gold one is not going to say anything to any of the other dragons. I think he could have gotten away with it.

[00:39:11] James: I, yeah, I was, I was fully, expecting him to, to break the rules. And

[00:39:18] Ka-Ce: (laughs) wield some shadows.

[00:39:20] James: once he, I wasn’t until he took the step forward and then I was like, Oh dang, bro’s going for it. He don’t give a shit.

[00:39:30] Ka-Ce: And see, I, you know, now mentioning it, he didn’t even have to take that step forward. He could have just wielded shadows.

[00:39:38] James: That is very true, actually.

[00:39:41] Ka-Ce: He could have just wrapped shadows around Tynan’s feet and knocked him out and then, whatever,

[00:39:47] James: He could have stayed in the, he didn’t even have to show himself.

[00:39:50] Ka-Ce: That’s true.

[00:39:51] James: He could have just been in the woods and done the shadows and killed everybody. No witnesses.

[00:39:58] Ka-Ce: Yeah. But [00:40:00] then we wouldn’t have had a chapter. Or as an exciting chapter.

[00:40:04] James: I don’t know, if I was Violet and I saw shadows coming out of the forest and dispatch three people in front of me, I’d be scared shitless.

[00:40:12] Ka-Ce: Yes, but then it wouldn’t have given a reason for Tairn to come. And a reason for Tairn to bond Violet. The whole reason he bonded her was because she stood up for Andarna and she took on three people who were bigger than her. She really had no chance of surviving this.

[00:40:33] James: No and I’m sure that that is probably what the whole point was.

[00:40:38] Xaden, I think, was fully prepared to get involved. And he might have had, he probably was reminded, maybe by, Sgaeyl, or, you know, like, no, this is, like, this is her test. You can’t, If she can’t do this, then she’s not going to be worthy of bonding.

[00:41:03] Like, do not interfere, because there’s more on the line here than just her trying to save this dragon. It’s her proving herself worthy enough to bond with the black dragon.

[00:41:16] Ka-Ce: and Xaden knew that Tairn was going to bond her.

[00:41:19] James: I mean, well, that could be true too.

[00:41:21] Ka-Ce: I think Sgaeyl just notified Tairn, because as we come up on the other, coming up chapters, they’re mates. So Sgaeyl’s pissed. She tells her mate, like, hey, these guys are trying to attack our little one. come help. I can’t do anything, otherwise my wing leader, rider, is going to get in trouble. Come do something. So he does. And You know, he has, like, this moment with Violet where he’s, like, You need to take out Oren, and she’s like, no, that’s not who I am. [00:42:00] And he says, well, if the situation was reversed, Oren would take you out.

[00:42:04] And she says, that shows his character, not mine. You know, so I think, even Tairn sweeping in and toasting Tynan, He still hadn’t made up his mind yet. And I think, Her, her, um, her telling Tairn, you know, that she wasn’t going to kill Oren while he’s out probably solidified his choice or his decision then and there. Like, he had to see for himself what she was doing, how she was trying to protect Andarna, and what her moral compass was, what her character was.

[00:42:47] James: he’s like You’re spicy and you have honor. I

[00:42:52] Ka-Ce: I like that. I also have to think that Xaden’s step forward probably was, um, Instinctual, like, he didn’t even think about it. It just happened.

[00:43:09] James: I mean, we do know that Xaden has a thing for protecting as much as he talks about people being on their own and having to deal with crap, like that he’s not there to babysit. And he’s not, he works his ass off to try and keep people safe. Like the

[00:43:30] Ka-Ce: people within his circle.

[00:43:32] James: Yea, but I mean people who are weak and clearly, um,

[00:43:41] Ka-Ce: at a disadvantage.

[00:43:41] James: at a disadvantage but not in a, not in a way that, because you can be a bad person and be at a disadvantage, but I think he’s drawn to helping people who are legitimately good people, you know?

[00:43:58] Ka-Ce: Yeah, she was there to [00:44:00] protect a dragon.

[00:44:01] James: yeah.

[00:44:01] Ka-Ce: Knowing that she was smaller, she was weaker. She was at a disadvantage against these three guys. And she still chose to do it anyway.

[00:44:13] James: Yeah, exactly. I’m kind of curious though, is it, if they would have actually even been able to kill, Andarna, because she still has dragon scales, even as of being a feathertail, right?

[00:44:27] Ka-Ce: I think she does have scales, um,

[00:44:30] James: I know

[00:44:31] Ka-Ce: mostly feathers

[00:44:32] James: I know that you can get in through like some of the joint where the plates don’t meet because of the mobility, but I was kind of figuring like if she stayed huddled up, like, they wouldn’t be able to do much, but I don’t know that,

[00:44:44] Ka-Ce: I, like, I don’t think they really thought this through either because they don’t know if she can breathe fire or not. She still has teeth, she can still rip them a new one, or bite them a new one. And she can still fly away. Like, yeah, she can’t carry a rider, but she can still fly. So what the hell were they thinking? how were they expecting to, like,

[00:45:09] sneak up on a dragon and kill her? Just goes to show you the, their, their, level of critical thinking skills was just not there.

[00:45:20] James: no, definitely not there.

[00:45:24] Uh, yeah,

[00:45:27] Ka-Ce: one other, mention in this chapter, that surprised me was that dragons in this world don’t wear saddles. They have like a natural saddle and a natural pommel. And I would think that just with certain maneuvers, no matter how strong the rider is, they’re still going to fall off. And actual saddles would make more sense. Most dragon books that I have read. They have some form of saddle that they put on a dragon in order to stay on. [00:46:00] Especially if you think about if a dragon’s gonna be like, rolling in the air. Or, somersaulting in the air, or something like

[00:46:08] James: yeah. Um, yeah, I don’t know.

[00:46:14] Ka-Ce: No thoughts or feelings

[00:46:15] on, uh

[00:46:16] James: yeah, it was kind of odd. I mean, I just kind of figured that the dragons were like, hell no, you ain’t putting a saddle on me.

[00:46:23] Ka-Ce: I’m not chattel. I am not a horse.

[00:46:26] James: Yeah, exactly. but yeah, I don’t know. It just seems kind of, unless they just assume again, that if you can’t stay in the seat, then well, screw you.

[00:46:39] Ka-Ce: yeah. Yeah, I guess that’s true

[00:46:41] James: I mean, we do see that happen later on.

[00:46:45] Ka-Ce: Yeah. Chapter 15, Just as, violet thinks she’s a goner, tairn clamps her and she’s yanked up. He tells her that she’s making them look bad and to stop it. She tells them it’s hard to stay up when he’s doing acrobatics and there’s nothing simple about him. Tairn tosses her up and catches her on his back.

[00:47:05] She immediately makes her way to a seat. He tells her. That he can barely feel her and she needs to grip harder with her knees. She tells him she’s trying, but she’s just not as strong as other riders. And Tairn tells her, I know exactly who and what you are, Violet Sorrengail.

[00:47:22] James: I’m still waiting for the drop on this.

[00:47:26] Ka-Ce: I am too. I think the whole fandom is still waiting for this. There are so many theories.

[00:47:31] James: There’s a setup here, and I’m like,

[00:47:35] Ka-Ce: (laughing)

[00:47:36] James: like, what’s the deal, Tairn?

[00:47:38] Ka-Ce: What does he know? Tairn uses magic to lock her into place, and she tells him she didn’t think she’d make it this far, and he responded that he didn’t think he would either. Around her, other dragons are testing their riders. Tairn tells her they have to put on a show, that she will trust him. He won’t let her fall. He clamps his magic [00:48:00] around her. And so starts, their How to Train Your Dragon test flight vibes. But with 100 percent more danger. When he’s done showing off, they go back to the flight field and Violet spots the little golden dragon waiting. Violet wants to know why Tairn chose her. He tells her it’s because she saved the golden one. But Violet pushes, saying dragons value strength and cunning and ferocity in their riders. Tairn is like, please, yes. Do tell me more about what I should value. A ferocious roar of celebration goes up from the spectators as Tairn comes in and the other dragons make room for him to land. Tairn tells her she is the smartest of her year, the most cunning, in response to her thoughts of him being the most celebrated dragon in the Vale and she’s the most unlikely rider in the Quadrant. That’s when she realizes he can hear her thoughts. And Tairn tells her she’ll never be alone again. Whether that’s promising or frightening, I’m not sure.

[00:49:01] James: I know, right? Just this big, ominous, you know, voice in your head, like, Should I have the jello today, or the chicken? And he’s all, The chicken.

[00:49:14] Ka-Ce: I mean, he kind of does that later

[00:49:19] I just imagine when you’re like, on the, by yourself on the loo or something and, or you’re alone in bed at night, having thoughts and stuff and, he’s like, stop it, I’m trying to sleep.

[00:49:32] James: Can you imagine, you’re in the bathroom and he’s like, Stop pushing so hard. That’s how you get hemorrhoids.

[00:49:41] Ka-Ce: Oh my god

[00:49:42] James: And she’s just like, Out of my head, I’m pooping. I’m always here.

[00:49:49] Ka-Ce: That’s just creepy.

[00:49:51] James: Sorry. I’m sorry, fandom. I took that to a place we didn’t need to go.

[00:49:55] Ka-Ce: No, we did not need to go there.

[00:49:57] James: But it’s still funny.[00:50:00]

[00:50:00] Ka-Ce: Oh my gosh.

[00:50:03] James: He’s like Santa Claus.

[00:50:07] Ka-Ce: How is Tairn like Santa Claus?

[00:50:09] James: Because he knows when you’re sleeping. He knows when you’re awake. He knows when you’ve been bad or good.

[00:50:15] Ka-Ce: Oh my god.

[00:50:16] James: So be good, for goodness sake.

[00:50:22] Ka-Ce: That’s it, we’re done.

[00:50:23] James: Or, or Santa’s, you know, not gonna be the only one coming to town.

[00:50:33] Ka-Ce: Continuing on.

[00:50:35] James: You guys will get that later.

[00:50:38] Ka-Ce: A golden dragon lands next to Tairn. Tairn lowers his leg again for Violet and she slides off, favoring her ankle. The dragons around them mutter and Tairn tells Violet to ignore them. Violet tells the Golden One she is glad it’s safe, but next time she should fly off if someone suggests she save herself. And Violet is surprised when the Golden One speaks to her, Maybe I was saving you. Violet tells her she’s not supposed to talk to humans who aren’t their riders. As other dragons and their riders start to land, Violet makes her way to the scribe table to record Tairn’s name. The dias behind the scribe Table holds General Lilith and all of her medals and finery, Melgren and the other generals. Melgren eyes Tairn in open assessment and cold calculation as he also evaluates Violet. Lilith rises as Violet approaches. Kaori jumps off the platform and stares open mouthed at Tairn. Commandant Panchek starts to ask if that’s But Lilith interrupts him. Only Violet can say her dragon’s name first. Only a rider and the roll-keeper know a dragon’s full name. Violet is pissed her mom doesn’t even look down at her, to see if she’s okay. It’s as if her mom doesn’t believe that Violet bonded with Tairn. The roll-keeper tells Violet that Tairn is a legend. And Violet’s about to agree, when she hears [00:52:00] Andarnaurram. Andarna, for short. Violet spins around, looking at her dragons, asking Tairn what she’s supposed to do. He tells her to give the roll-keeper Andarna’s name as well. So, Violet does. And all hell breaks loose. I feel like all hell breaks loose around Violet all the fucking time.

[00:52:23] James: Seriously. She’s been in this place for, what, a couple weeks now, and she’s already just causing so much chaos with everything.

[00:52:33] Ka-Ce: Couple months, but yes

[00:52:34] James: Couple months, yeah. Uh, yeah, I guess that’s, yeah, with training and all that stuff that they have to do. they’re like, yeah, she’s weak, she’s gonna die. She doesn’t die. They’re like, okay, well, maybe the dragons will take her out.

[00:52:46] No, they don’t take her out. Well, she’s certainly not gonna bond. Oh, she just bonded the second largest dragon on the freaking continent. Oh, and that one too. And that one too. What the hell?

[00:53:02] Ka-Ce: Yup. Yup.

[00:53:05] James: Yeah, so uh, She’s a, she’s a troublemaker.

[00:53:11] Ka-Ce: she is, without even trying.

[00:53:15] James: So, we know General Melgren, I can’t stand that guy. Um, He has,

[00:53:22] Ka-Ce: You’ve hardly read about him.

[00:53:25] James: in the little bits that I have read, I can’t stand that guy.

[00:53:28] Ka-Ce: Fair enough.

[00:53:29]

[00:53:29] James: he has the only other dragon that is bigger than Tairn,

[00:53:36] Ka-Ce: And it’s also a black dragon.

[00:53:37] James: and is also a black dragon. and that seems like it could be a problem later. I think that, because Melgren is a general, right?

[00:53:50] I think he would look at this and his, his thought process would be like, Okay, I have the largest [00:54:00] black dragon that there is. How the hell did this tiny little thing Get the second largest black dragon on the continent. Like, what is happening here? And, she’s the daughter of Lilith Sorrengail, who, they don’t get along.

[00:54:23] so it’s like, kind of feels like he’s already anticipating a problem. From Violet, based on the fact that she’s Lilith’s daughter. And she also now has the second most powerful dragon.

[00:54:35] Ka-Ce: You think he’s sizing up the competition?

[00:54:38] James: It kind of feels like it.

[00:54:40] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:54:41] James: Or like disbelief or something. Like, like, The black dragon could not have gone to the, to a more wrong person.

[00:54:52] Ka-Ce: Or is he calculating? The second largest and strongest black dragon chose this seemingly weak girl. What kind of power is he going to harness into her?

[00:55:07] James: That’s true too. I, I mean

[00:55:09] Ka-Ce: What kind of weapon is she going to become? And can she handle it?

[00:55:14] James: Well, I mean, yeah, can she handle it? But my other thought would,

[00:55:19] My other thought would be, you know, she’s going to turn into this, you know, hopefully she’s going to turn into this powerful weapon that we’re going to find this out later, that, you know, things don’t always go as planned, but I feel like he, he’s still looking at it like this very powerful dragon has gone to somebody Who is probably not going to be in my corner, if Push comes to shove with things and ideologies, because she is already exhibited a very rebellious, way of thinking.

[00:55:58] Ka-Ce: Because she was trained as a scribe?[00:56:00]

[00:56:00] James: I would say because she was trained as a scribe, she’s a free thinker.

[00:56:03] You know, she’s not a soldier. She’s not been, you know, that training hasn’t been honed in her. She had six months of training. She didn’t get beaten down and then reformed as a machine that listens when ordered.

[00:56:18] I mean she questions everything

[00:56:21] Ka-Ce: Mmmhmm.

[00:56:22] James: And him being a powerful general I can see him looking at all of this and being like, is she going to be a help or a hindrance later because of who she is and who her family is? Um, you know what I mean? Like, calculating

[00:56:43] Ka-Ce: Yea..

[00:56:43] James: All angles, you know,

[00:56:46] And maybe, you know, if she’s more of a hindrance, am I going to be able to take her out? Cause, Tairn is only second to, I forget what his dragon’s name is, but, yeah. Like, that’s a problem.

[00:57:05] So, yeah.

[00:57:07] Ka-Ce: I also want to mention, tag this in your book if you are tagging your book or making notes. Only a rider and the roll keeper knows the dragon’s full name.

[00:57:20] But the roll-keeper only knows what the Dragon Rider tells them. And the Rider only knows what the Dragons tell them. So this doesn’t come up, really, in Iron Flame or Onyx Storm. But it was revealed, in one of Rebecca Yarris current, interviews. Uh, for her press tour for Onyx Storm.

[00:57:47] James: Ooooooh,

[00:57:48] Ka-Ce: So we’ll talk more about this we get into Onyx Storm. I don’t want to say too much, but I think you should tag it if you are tagging and making [00:58:00] notes. there might be something coming up in book 4 or maybe book 5 about this whole name roll-keeping thing.

[00:58:09] James: so is there a potential that the dragons are not being truthful about their names?

[00:58:14] Ka-Ce: Yes.

[00:58:18] James: But knowing the full name doesn’t, like, hinder the riders, right? I mean

[00:58:24] Ka-Ce: don’t think it hinders the riders, but remember, they’re keeping roll. They’re keeping track of everything.

[00:58:32] James: Hmm.

[00:58:35] Ka-Ce: So.

[00:58:37] James: We’ll have to talk about that one off the air.

[00:58:43] I mean, you’re not going to ruin anything in Onyx Storm for me, so we’ll have to We’ll have to see.

[00:58:51] Ka-Ce: Alright.

[00:58:52] James: moving on to chapter 16. And, oops, okay. In the med tent, in the med tent, Violet is getting looked at. Her arm had to be sewn up, her ankle had to be splinted. But at least she got some pain meds. And Jack fuckin Barlowe is just a dozen feet away, also getting checked out. Turns out, he bonded a small orange scorpion tail.

[00:59:26] He can’t stop staring at Tairn, and he is furious when he’s told his shoulder will need surgery. Jack shouts at Violet. Violet slides off the table, glaring at him. She’s done being scared of him. He was the coward who ran. Kaori steps in between them and tells Jack to rethink things.

[00:59:47] Tairn bonded Violet and will scorch him.

[00:59:51] Jack nearly lets slip what happened out there, and Kaori asks if there’s something he needs to know. Jack then marches across the [01:00:00] field to find his dragon.

[01:00:05] As I’m reading this, I’m now having thoughts about Jack and his dragon. I just, I’m just wondering how strong their bond really is. you know, in light of things. Violet asks Kaori if anyone else has ever bonded two dragons and he tells her no.

[01:00:23] She’s the first.

[01:00:25] The generals shouldn’t even bother arguing since it’s not their decision.

[01:00:30] She makes her way back to her dragons and tells them that they are causing a ruckus. Tairn tells her it’s for the Empyrean to decide and, not to leave the field. Codagh, Melgren’s dragon, walks center of the field, dragons following after him. Codagh stops to glare down Tairn.

[01:00:49] Tairn steps in between Codagh and Violet, growling. Andarna tells Violet they are talking about her. Tairn tells Violet to stay close to the wing leader until he returns. surely Tairn meant the squad leader? No, no, Tairn definitely meant the scowling wing leader. Poor Xaden. He’s on babysitting duty.

[01:01:14] Ka-Ce: Yep.

[01:01:14] James: Chaos erupts once the dragons leave. Rhi, Sawyer, and Ridoc have all bonded dragons. Sadly, Trina fell off her dragon and was not caught. yeah, Violet freaking lucky that Tairn was like, Nope.

[01:01:31] Ka-Ce: Right

[01:01:32] James: Violet tells the group that Tairn killed tynan. , She was about to tell them what Tynan was going to do when she’s interrupted by Dain.

[01:01:41] Dain drags her away to find out what’s going on. He tells her leadership is going to make her choose between the two dragons, and she should choose Andarna.

[01:01:49] She’s the safest choice. Even if she could ride Andarna and go into battle, there’s only a chance that she’ll be killed. If she chooses [01:02:00] Tairn, Xaden will get her killed.

[01:02:02] Dain drops the bombshell. Tairn and Sgaeyl are mates, the strongest bonded pair in centuries. Mated pairs can’t be separated for long or their health diminishes, and they are always stationed together. Dain asks her To tell him what happened out there, so she does. He tells her, don’t you see what Xaden has done?

[01:02:24] Implying that Xaden has somehow orchestrated it all. Which,

[01:02:31] Ka-Ce: make it make sense

[01:02:32] James: that’s far cry dude. Like,

[01:02:34] Ka-Ce: I feel like Dain is reaching so bad, at this point

[01:02:37] James: I mean he’s trying. Like, he’s grasping at anything to get her out of there.

[01:02:43] As if on cue, Xaden emerges from the shadows, demanding to know exactly what he did.

[01:02:50] Dain claims that Xaden manipulated Threshing, that he stepped in. Xaden tells him that he watched her, outnumbered, already wounded.

[01:02:59] Her bravery, admirable, as well as reckless, she fought off three bigger cadets.

[01:03:06] Uh, xaden continues to tell Dain,

[01:03:10] what you should be asking is if Sgaeyl saw it too. Sgaeyl watched the whole thing and told her mate. Tairn chose Violet all on his own. Violet is the last person on the continent that Xaden wants chained to him. Damn, bro.

[01:03:31] Ka-Ce: Ouch.

[01:03:32] James: But I mean, fair

[01:03:34] Ka-Ce: fair

[01:03:35] James: like He’s gone from, wanting to kill her to now he’s not going to be able to get away from her.

[01:03:45] Xaden further lays into Dain. Would you really level that accusation knowing it would have been what saved the woman you call your best friend? There’s a silent moment. that passes before Dain [01:04:00] tries to say that there are rules um, explain, you know, and Xaden further questions if Dain would have bent those rules to save Violet and Dain answers no.

[01:04:13] Xaden orders Dain back into formation. The dragons are coming back. He tells Violet that she puts too much faith in him. Knowing who to trust is the only thing that will keep her alive, them alive. Violet tells him that there is no us. Tairn’s bonds are powerful because he’s powerful. Losing his last rider nearly killed him, which nearly killed Sgaeyl.

[01:04:42] So if Violet dies, Xaden might die.

[01:04:46] Ka-Ce: Shiiiit,

[01:04:48] James: And the unbonded cadets are going to do everything they can to take her out in order to bond Tairn, there are 41 Unbonded this year. Melgren announces, what were you gonna say something?

[01:05:04] Ka-Ce: Oh, I was gonna say, that’s a lot of people to have coming after you

[01:05:08] James: no kidding. Right.

[01:05:09] Um,

[01:05:10] Melgren announces.

[01:05:12] The dragons have spoken about the Sorrengail Girl, and there is no dragon law against two dragons bonding the same rider. It’s just never been done before.

[01:05:21] Dragons make their own laws, so their choice stands. Lilith commands all new riders to step forward. Dragons blast their riders, giving them spiffy new relics.

[01:05:34] Vi’s is on her upper back. A large black dragon, wings spread in mid flight with a smaller golden dragon on top. Dain rushes forward to congratulate her and to see her relic. He cups her face and kisses her. And the thrill of the kiss is gone in less than a second for Violet. No heat. No lust. No energy.

[01:05:57] It’s like kissing her brother.[01:06:00]

[01:06:03] Dain is all smiles as he pulls away, but Violet realizes that she does not want this.

[01:06:12] Ka-Ce: Nope.

[01:06:13] James: I do feel bad for Dain at that point.

[01:06:16] Ka-Ce: Aww, did you?

[01:06:18] James: I mean, come on, they’re like, flirt, flirt, flirt, flirt, flirt, flirt, and then he screwed up because he keeps trying to get her out, and, and then they’re like, leading up to this big crescendo of the kiss, and then they do, and she’s like, Oh. What?

[01:06:37] Ka-Ce: See? I, okay. Talking about the kiss, why does Dain wait until now to kiss Violet? Was he waiting until she bonded to act on his feelings? Or was the whole confrontation with Xaden make him scared, make him, like, panic or something? Because Xaden pretty much called him out. Like, if Dain had been there when Violet was going up against three of the cadets and trying to save Andarna, Dain wouldn’t have done anything.

[01:07:08] He would have just sat there and watched her be killed. So is he feeling like panic or guilt or something and this is his way of saving face? Like let me rush in and and kiss her.

[01:07:20] James: Mmm, I could see that. Like, yeah, it’s a panic, Like, shit, I wasn’t planning on doing this, but I, I just screwed up by saying I wouldn’t have saved her life, and And he really does like her, care for her, I mean, maybe love her, cause he’s known her.

[01:07:38] Ka-Ce: They’ve been yeah, they’ve known each other They’ve been best friends and they’ve always skirted on this You know, I like you you like me, but the timing was just never right. I don’t know It just felt it felt weird like the timing of this kiss just felt weird

[01:07:59] James: and [01:08:00] I feel like, too, he He may have felt a little more threatened because now knowing that her dragon and Xaden’s dragon are bonded mates, and that means that she has to be around Xaden all the time now. And he’s like, my window for this is done. It’s closing if I don’t get in there right now.

[01:08:26] So, you know, that urgency. That wasn’t necessarily there before, it is there now. And maybe that was part of why he acted on it as quick as he did. Because

[01:08:40] Ka-Ce: Not to mention, too, she’s been fighting back against Dain more. You know, he, ’cause he kept pushing, taking her to the scribes, getting her out to the scribes, and then even pushing her Now, like what happened in that field? Xaden manipulated you. Now you have to choose Andarna. You can’t keep the big powerful dragon and she’s been getting more and more pissed with him, as she should, you know, he’s not supporting her as a friend should. He’s not letting her live up to her potential, all in this effort to, like, try to save her.

[01:09:19] So Do you think Violet’s feelings for Dain would have been different if he had supported her up until this point, instead of always He’s trying to, I wouldn’t say belittle her, but always trying to see her as weaker and trying to get her to the scribes.

[01:09:38] James: You know, that’s a good question, because, I was wondering about that. Like, did he inadvertently screw himself by continually pushing her and not, supporting her. Because, you know, we’ve talked about before how he, [01:10:00] like, the first, maybe one or two, maybe three times, he could have been like, let’s go, let’s do this.

[01:10:10] But after she did the parapet, After she did the gauntlet, after she did the presentation, he should have just been like, You know what, you’re doing it, and I’m gonna help you. You’re doing it, and you’re doing it good. And these are the things to watch out for that I had to go through my first year. He should have been the one telling her, um, you gotta watch out for the 41 unbonded.

[01:10:39] Not Xaden. That shouldn’t have been Xaden telling her. It should have been, it should have been Dain. but at the same time, I don’t feel like Dain would, well A, I don’t think he can protect her the same way Xaden, you know, just power wise. because now we know Xaden is going to be motivated to protect her.

[01:11:02] Ka-Ce: Yea.

[01:11:02] James: Um, Dain

[01:11:03] Ka-Ce: his life is laying on, his life is on the line

[01:11:05] James: Yeah, so Dain doesn’t have the same capability to protect her that Xaden does, and that might have ended badly for her. If things had gone differently, you know, alternate universe.

[01:11:23] Or, you know, would we have seen, because of Violet’s nature, and her unrelenting, drive to let things go. Would she have eventually pushed him to the point where he’s like, You know what, I will bend the rules on the Codex because Technicality. I can live with technicalities, you know.

[01:11:52] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:11:52] James: But we never get to see that because he isn’t pushed to protect her.

[01:11:58] by her or [01:12:00] himself, really. And then Xaden steps in and and now there’s nothing he can do. He can’t compete with that. It’s just you know, his signet’s cool but it’s not a fighter’s signet. It’s interrogation.

[01:12:15] Ka-Ce: Yeah, intelligence and interrogation.

[01:12:17] James: Yeah, and Xaden’s is very much frontline

[01:12:21] you know, wipe soldiers out and Take care of business.

[01:12:27] Ka-Ce: Very offensive. Yeah.

[01:12:30] James: So really, Xaden is like the most well equipped person to protect her at this point. Kind of funny enough. And Xaden’s just like, damn it!

[01:12:45] Must I use my powers for good?

[01:12:50] Ka-Ce: Melgren’s choice of words. Sorrengail girl. think it was on purpose? Like, to bring her down? Or do you think it’s more of like a generational thing? Like, a boomer calling everyone that’s younger than them a boy, a girl, a millennial?

[01:13:08] James: I, I feel like Melgren is Like, so many of the people that seem to be in this place is purposely trying to call her out on her weakness and her size and the fact that she is not like the rest of her family.

[01:13:36] It just is, yeah, it seems like everyone around her, except for her, like, later on, you know, her, her squad, her squad squad, is constantly trying to bring her down, um, like, mentally?

[01:13:55] Because she’s constantly, like, defying the odds. Like, she’s this tiny little thing [01:14:00] with now the strongest, one of the strongest dragons, and, It’s like they have to come in and be like, well, the girl or, you know, the one who’s tiny, the one, you know what I mean?

[01:14:14] Like, they can’t, they can’t let it go. And so they have to just belittle her in the way that they talk to her or the way they talk about her. And we still see that later on too, where people talk about her. While she’s in the room, and she’s like, I’m right freaking here

[01:14:42] Yeah, it just seems like there’s just just a problem that they have with her or her family in general I think and

[01:14:52] Ka-Ce: yea

[01:14:56] James: I did find it kind of funny that

[01:15:01] That, Kaori had to get in between Jack and Violet and was basically like, Dude, do you want to get your ass kicked again? Because I think she’s ready to do it again. And unless you feel like losing again, um, you might want to back off. And Jack’s like, Well, yeah, but if she, you know what, I’m, uh, I need to go.

[01:15:26] Ka-Ce: And Jack was, like, very telling on himself. Like, he almost let it slip that he was out there to hunt down a dragon and kill a dragon.

[01:15:36] James: Right. So clearly this was, this was not a, uh, condoned activity by any means.

[01:15:43] Ka-Ce: No, not at all. And I, uh, I kind of wish that Violet had told Kaori so that Jack would have got his just desserts, but then we wouldn’t have a story. Or we would have had a different [01:16:00] story.

[01:16:00] James: I mean, yeah, it just seemed, I know, actually kind of curious why she wouldn’t have mentioned just offhandedly. Like, yeah, that’s what you get for trying to kill a, you know, feathertail and then Kaori could be like the what now

[01:16:15] Ka-Ce: Exactly. Like, that seems like something you should bring up to a professor. That’s, again, something that riders are not supposed to do. You’re there to bond a dragon, not to kill a dragon. That, that just seems like, that seems like important information that you need to bring to your leaders.

[01:16:37] James: somebody had to have put that idea in his head.

[01:16:40] Ka-Ce: Exactly. Yeah. Maybe, maybe it’ll come to light later on, but it just seems weird. I get that cadets use threshing to take their vendettas out against each other, but this wasn’t a vendetta against Violet. This was going after a specific dragon, a small feathertail, just because it’s small. So I really think that somebody put Jack up to it. Leadership. Somebody in leadership must have. Like,

[01:17:24] James: Yeah, it’s just,

[01:17:27] Ka-Ce: I don’t think he would have gotten that idea on his own. I think, would he have gone after Violet during threshing? Fuck yeah. Because Jack’s just on this mission to kill her. And Tynan and Oren would have followed along because they’re followers. But. Killing a dragon is just not what you’re there for.

[01:17:49] James: Yea… Seems like an odd choice.

[01:17:54] Ka-Ce: And it just also seems like an odd choice that Violet didn’t tell Kaori or somebody, like, [01:18:00] Hey, these three guys try to attack a feathertail. maybe she didn’t because nobody would have believed her that she stood up to three cadets, you know, and

[01:18:12] James: And two of them are dead, so.

[01:18:15] Ka-Ce: one of them.

[01:18:16] James: Oh, oh that’s right, Oren’s not dead. Okay, but, I mean

[01:18:19] Ka-Ce: Oren was knocked out,

[01:18:20] James: Tynan is dead, I mean, so, you know.

[01:18:24] Ka-Ce: And I mean, if they didn’t believe her, then Tairn could have shared his memories of, you know, killing Tynan and telling her to kill Oren and her not, but. We digress. We could, we could talk this in circles.

[01:18:39]

[01:18:39] Chapter 17. The new riders now get their own rooms, and they don’t have to do any more of the less desirable duties, like kitchen duty. All their energy has to be saved for flight lessons. Violet confides in Rhi about the kiss with Dain and that it ended up being eh, It seems a bunch of the new riders spent the night celebrating. In style. Oren is among the unbonded and is now serving breakfast and glaring daggers at Violet. As Vi, Rhi, Ridoc, and Sawyer get breakfast and sit, they notice as people start to treat Violet differently. And Jack is pushed out of his own group and table. Even Even Imogen, Quinn, Heaton, and Emery, senior riders. Join them. Power structures are changing, shifting, now that people have dragons. And well, Violet now has the biggest, baddest, strongest one, and Jack has a smaller dragon. Senior riders tell the First Years it’s no use getting to know the First Years when most of them die, so no offense. We will actually see this come up again in Iron Flame. Heaton is surprised that Oren didn’t bond, and Violet admits that he tried to kill Andarna. Tairn must have told the other dragons about what Oren did, so [01:20:00] no one bonded him. It’s a shame no one told them not to bond Jack. First years ask about the senior signets, and Violet starts to notice all the different patches some of them have. Imogen announces that Violet will begin working with her after classes and they are going to start working with weights. Violet puts two and two together. Xaden ordered Imogen to help her. He now has to keep her alive. Some squads are rearranged due to the deaths at Threshing and the first years that bonded are now issued flight leathers. Only 92 riders are in first year, the smallest class to date. There were 101 dragons willing to bond, and 41 cadets remain unbonded. Kaori is teaching their first dragon riding course, and Tairn is the second to launch into the sky after Kaori’s dragon. Violet notes that Tairn is an in front sort of guy. Little does she know. Violet also insists that Tairn not hold her in place. She needs to be able to ride him on her own. And so she falls. Over, and over, and over again. On her way to the sparring mat later, Dain catches up to her. Tairn insists on making maneuvers harder than Kaori, and Dain tells her to tell Tairn to ease up. Tairn tells Violet he needs to mind his own business. Dain touches her face. Again. Seriously? And his gaze drops to her lips for a heartbeat before stepping back. He says their kiss never should have happened, they are still the best of friends, but his eyes are heavy with sadness that Violet doesn’t understand. He says it’s about politics. Is he covering? Or is he actually sad because for him, it is actually about politics?

[01:21:49] We will discuss.

[01:21:50] James: this is like, Dorian and Celaena but reversed.

[01:21:54] Ka-Ce: Violet thought they were on the same page. Dain is further surprised that Violet is [01:22:00] starting training with Imogen, especially since, you know, Imogen tried to kill her. Imogen makes her work out her inner thighs and tells her she isn’t to question her. Ever. And it’s Riorson, not Xaden. Looks like Imogen is not too happy to train Violet.

[01:22:20] James: Dun dun dunnn.

[01:22:22] Ka-Ce: Do you think Dain read her memories of their kiss? And that’s why he’s sad.

[01:22:30] James: I don’t know, actually. Like, you kind of think, you kind of get the idea that he did. Um, but

[01:22:45] He also seems like the kind of, because he’s such a stickler for the rules and they are encouraged to stay within their,

[01:22:58] Ka-Ce: Their years.

[01:22:59] James: Their years, and I could see that being the thing for him. So even if he didn’t read her memory for him, the politics is don’t get intermingled with the classes because first year, second year, and then second year, third year, and then He’s gone, and then, you know, and that makes it hard, because you never know when someone’s going to be out doing something, or they get killed, or, you know.

[01:23:26] Ka-Ce: I mean, I think too, it’s she was already questioned by Tynan and Luca, like she’s sleeping her way to the top sort of thing you know, they already thought that her and Dain, you know, already had a relationship and stuff, and it wasn’t until Rhiannon spoke up and was like dude, their families have been stationed together their whole lives, their friends, like, think about it, and they’re like, oh. So I could see that, [01:24:00] and it’s, like you said, not a rule rule, it’s just frowned upon.

[01:24:07] James: but he is one who

[01:24:10] Ka-Ce: Would be looking at

[01:24:11] James: would be looking at, yeah,

[01:24:15] Ka-Ce: But at the same time, he cupped her face, again! And whereas he was smiling He cups her face and then he steps back because he’s sad. And that just reads so much like he did read her. To see what her memories were of their kiss. And if that’s true, if he did read her, do you find that a violation?

[01:24:47] James: well I think, yeah, any time that you take something from someone without their consent would be considered a violation.

[01:24:55] Ka-Ce: Or maybe I should, rephrase it, How would I rephrase that? Is that something you would do? Would you want to know?

[01:25:07] James: I’m,

[01:25:07] Ka-Ce: Or do you think it was by accident? Like, cause he’s so used to cupping her face and so he cupped her face and then he went Oh, I wonder what she thought about the kiss and then, like, he saw her memory without meaning to?

[01:25:19] James: I mean, he does say at some point that he is still learning how to control his power, you know, because he is just a second year.

[01:25:28] Ka-Ce: Yea

[01:25:28] James: It’s not like he has complete mastery, you know, he’s not like Xaden, who, um, has gone through, like, just so much training to, to wield this, um, this power, you know.

[01:25:44] Um, so I could see where, especially if he’s already accustomed to touching her that way, You know, as a, as a, uh, it you know, a token of affection, [01:26:00] right?

[01:26:00] Ka-Ce: Mmm, yea

[01:26:01] James: And then if he did do it on accident, you know, but if he did it on purpose, that’s one thing, but You know, accidentally reading someone’s mind because you don’t have full control of your power. That’s not really…

[01:26:17] I’m sure people would argue it, but I don’t think that you really should be held accountable for that because you didn’t go into it with bad intentions.

[01:26:26] Ka-Ce: Yea.

[01:26:26] James: it just depends on his intentions. Did he do it? Well, first, did he do it at all? Or was there something else going on in his mind and it all just sort of happened coincidentally so that it seemed like he might have done it, you know?

[01:26:47] But maybe he didn’t do it at all, or did he do it on accident, or did he do it on purpose? There’s three possibilities there. and we don’t know what he did, so.

[01:26:56] I think I still would bank on it being.

[01:27:01] I think probably an accident.

[01:27:04] Ka-Ce: You think he read her but on accident?

[01:27:08] James: It would really kind of be the only thing that would explain the shift in his, way he was acting. and I could see something like doing that where it would kind of just hit him, you know, like a wall, and it would be like, Oh, oh, shit, you know, like,

[01:27:29] it’s, uh,

[01:27:34] Yeah, that’s, I think that’s what that would be. If he did it, I think it was on accident.

[01:27:41] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:27:43] James: And I actually don’t actually really remember, I remember that there was an instance, but I don’t remember if it was this one. But I do remember it being explained later.

[01:27:54] I was gonna say something,

[01:27:56] 101 dragons that were willing to bond, [01:28:00] and there were 41 cadets that were still unbonded. but only 92. So that means that there were 9 dragons that were willing to bond, but looked at everybody and went, Yeah, never mind. For some reason or another. And so, you know, the dragons are definitely, it seems, they’re being more and more picky about this bonding with the humans.

[01:28:30] And it doesn’t seem like it would really be something that they should be as picky about. Because, you know, as we learn, the humans need the dragons, you know, for protection to the borders and everything. But the dragons agreed to do this because for the humans. For the protection of the vale. So you would think that they would be doing max capacity on both sides to get as many riders like out and about as possible, right?

[01:29:01] So, As you’ve said before, you know, this is the Empyrean series, not the Basgiath series, you know,

[01:29:14] So it just leads you to wonder what the politics are that are happening within the dragons that are causing them to not want to bond with the humans at the same rate that they were willing to before. you know, what is the reason for this? Because it’s certainly making life harder, for the humans.

[01:29:38] Ka-Ce: Yes.

[01:29:38] James: Especially with the number of cadets that come into the college.

[01:29:42] Ka-Ce: Yes. Yes.

[01:29:49] James: Just yes.

[01:29:50] Ka-Ce: Just yes. I’m afraid of saying too much and too

[01:29:56] little.

[01:29:56] James: am I gonna, am I gonna figure some stuff out the farther I get into Onyx [01:30:00] Storm?

[01:30:00] Ka-Ce: I mean, you’ve You learn about some of it in Iron Flame. some of it towards the end of Fourth Wing. So you, you learn that the Empyrean itself is divided. And I feel like the Empyrean gets further divided in Fourth, uh, in Iron Flame. And you’re gonna continue to see some of that in Onyx Storm. But yeah, unfortunately we don’t get any point of view chapters from the dragons themselves so everything we learn, you know, is through Violet’s eyes.

[01:30:40] James: And as she learns.

[01:30:42] Ka-Ce: and as she learns, we learn. so there is definitely something. especially if more riders are coming in. wanting to bond and less and less dragons are willing to bond. so it makes you wonder if there’s something going on with the Empyrean, or if there’s something going on with human leadership that we don’t know about. Or is, is it both? It could be both at the same time.

[01:31:14] James: That’s true. Humans are not known for, their strong negotiation skills, so.

[01:31:21] Ka-Ce: No. And I mean, even if you were willing to bond, You know, as a dragon, and you looked at this group of cadets, and you were like, None of these are worthy. Would you really want to tie your life to that? Or would you want to wait the next year to see if somebody was stronger, or was wiser, or more cunning, or more whatever the dragon is actually looking for?

[01:31:52] James: Oh, that’s true, actually, yeah.

[01:31:55] Ka-Ce: Because you have to remember

[01:31:56] once a dragon

[01:31:57] bonds they are tied to their [01:32:00] rider.

[01:32:01] If their rider dies, they may or may not die. But if they die, their rider dies. And if you are bonded to a rider, you are now in active service. You don’t get to sit there and go, Yeah, I bonded this dude. Cool, have fun over there.

[01:32:16] I’m gonna go sleep away over in the vale. You don’t get to do that anymore. Now you’re in active service. Some dragons probably don’t want that. Some dragons probably just want to You know, chill in the vale, and not deal with humans at all.

[01:32:31] James: they’re like, these humans die so easily, why am I putting myself at risk for this?

[01:32:36] Ka-Ce: Exactly.

[01:32:39] James: I can see that. That’s,

[01:32:40] Interesting.

[01:32:44] Okay. chapter 18. Violet is assigned to Archive’s duty, which for her is like a dream. Her friend, Jesinia, comes to help, and they sign, catching up. Violet hands the list of requested tombs to Jesinia, then asks if they have a copy of The Fables of the Barren, feeling a bit homesick. It’s not an academic book, it’s a collection of folktales that her dad shared with her.

[01:33:13] now that Vi is going to be wielding, she could use a few good folktales of what happens when humans defile the power channeled to them. The stories must be parables to warn them of the dangers of bonding to dragons.

[01:33:27] But in Navarre’s 600 Years of Unification, she’s never read about a human losing their soul.

[01:33:35] The dragons keep that from happening. Markham is leading a group of cadet scribes around and stops before Violet. Violet schools the cadets. The archives have a fire mitigation system, less air, less risk of history being burned to the ground. The stuffy hoods that they wear make it harder for them to stand out [01:34:00] amongst the tombs.

[01:34:01] No one and nothing is more important than the documents and the books in this room. Turns out, Jesinia can’t find the book that Violet requested. She’s surprised, as the archives either have a copy or original of almost every book in Navarre. Only ultra rare and forbidden tombs are excluded. comes to think of it, Violet realizes that she was studying to be a scribe, and she never came across anything mentioning wyverns or venin.

[01:34:31] Other creatures, like Kraken, Chimera, sure. Violet catches up with her group at lunch, shoveling food into her mouth as Ridoc retells the story of Sawyer’s signet manifesting. He’s a metallurgist. Quinn tells the First Years that they will manifest when their dragons think they are ready. The relic that the dragons give the riders is a conduit to their magic.

[01:34:59] If you don’t manifest a signet and let it out, then after about six months or so, bad things happen.

[01:35:10] If you’ve ever wondered what happens when a human, yeah, well. Violet feels a tingle in her scalp and knows that if she turns, she’ll find Xaden watching. They haven’t spoken since threshing, but she’s never alone. There is always a marked upperclassman somewhere when she’s walking the halls or headed to the gym at night.

[01:35:32] They head out to the flight field just in time to see Jack with Caroline Ashton. She just bonded Gleann. Apparently, Gleann’s first rider fell off during their first flight lesson. Even after getting a dragon, there’s no guarantee you’re going to keep it.

[01:35:52] Ka-Ce: Nope.

[01:35:53] James: Tairn insists on making their flight lessons harder. [01:36:00] Telling Violet that Kaori is teaching them parlor tricks. Tairn is training her for battle, but he keeps catching her as she falls, and she’s lucky she’s the only one. None of the other dragons are catching their riders.

[01:36:16] Ka-Ce: Nope.

[01:36:17] James: Tairn also teases her about Xaden, mentioning that her heart rate, but stops as Dain approaches.

[01:36:25] Tairn’s teasing turns into a growl. Tairn makes Violet tell Dain word for word that if he harms her, Tairn will scorch the ground where he stands. There’s anger burning behind Dain’s eyes, but he tells Violet he would rather die than harm her. Dain turns on her, demanding to know why she didn’t tell him that she can’t keep her seat.

[01:36:54] Anger bubbles up in Violet, and she doesn’t hold back, telling him that it’s not a secret she can’t hold her seat. Everyone in their wing knows. And she isn’t going to stand around while he lectures her like a kid. Dain sighs. He just wants to help. At this point, it’s no more help. Okay, Dain, no more help.

[01:37:16] Ka-Ce: You’re doing it all wrong,

[01:37:17] James: Yeah, you’re not helping. She tells him at the beginning of the month she fell off three dozen times. At least now, it’s only a dozen. She’s training with Imogen, building muscle. Dain still thinks that Riorson doesn’t have her best interests at heart. First, by bending the rules at Gauntlet. Apparently, Amber lit into Dain for an hour about how Violet acted dishonorably.

[01:37:46] Dain says that Amber is wing leader. He’s not going to question her integrity. Violet shoots back that she proved herself with the Codex and Riorson accepted it. [01:38:00] He’s a wing leader too. Dain then admits that he’s terrified. And Violet’s had enough. Basgiath cuts away. All the bullshit and the niceties, revealing who you are at your core.

[01:38:16] Is Dain so enamored with the rules that he doesn’t know when to bend or break them for someone he cares about, that he can’t believe Violet can do so much more? And that is the reason why they can’t be anything more. Dain has no faith in Violet. Even now, when she has survived all odds and bonded with two dragons, which nobody else has ever done, she marches past him down to the courtyard where Xaden and Garrick are leaning against the wall.

[01:38:46] Violet flips off Xaden before meeting up with Rhi. I love how random that is, like,

[01:38:55] Ka-Ce: Wait, what?

[01:38:55] James: I love how random that is. She’s like, she’s mad at Dain, and then she’s walking through the courtyard, and she’s like, Yeah, and fuck you too.

[01:39:04] Ka-Ce: I was gonna say, I love it. Like, Xaden didn’t even open his mouth to say anything, or whatever, and Violet’s just like, fuck you.

[01:39:14] James: I just imagine him and Garrick,

[01:39:16] Ka-Ce: you, fuck you.

[01:39:17] James: They’re just standing there, and they’re like, What?

[01:39:25] It’s so random, but it’s so great.

[01:39:29] Ka-Ce: It is, but like, You know Xaden’s gotta be like, What the fuck? And then he probably sees Dain like, running after her, and he’s like, Oh, okay. But still, what the fuck, what did I do?

[01:39:46] James: Just as Violet is about to tell Rhi about Dain. Jeremiah runs by screaming. It turns out he just manifested and he’s reading everyone’s minds. He’s an inntinnsic, it’s [01:40:00] a death sentence. Xaden comes to stand next to Violet. She asks him to help him. He tells her to start mentally reciting whatever book shit she’s learned.

[01:40:11] If she values her secrets, she has to clear her thoughts. Just as Jeremiah turns his gaze on Garrick and starts to speak, shadows race up Jeremiah’s body. But Professor Carr comes up and snaps Jeremiah’s neck. Xaden’s shadows melt away. Him and Garrick leave. That night, as Violet dreams of her father, a familiar voice keeps telling her to wake.

[01:40:39] Her father tells her that while riders are the weapons of the kingdom, it’s the scribes who have all the real power. and then again, wake. Violet comes awake just as a blade comes down at her. She rolls and the blade slams into the side of her back. The sword rebounds thanks to her armor.

[01:41:00] Violet slams into the hardwood floor and pulls two daggers from under her pillow. There are seven unbonded First Years in her room. Four unbonded men, three unbonded women. But how did they get into her locked room? Make that two unbonded women as one of the women Violet recognizes runs out of the room.

[01:41:20] They attack. Tairn is rushing to get to her. Oren grips her throat and lifts her off the ground. Tairn promises that he’s almost there and Violet thinks, He who? But she can’t think, she can’t breathe. Oren flips her around so her back is pressed against his chest. He tells her that Tairn is his, a blade now by her neck.

[01:41:45] The knife touches her skin just as her bedroom door flies open, the wood splintering as it slams against the stone wall. Andarna screams, mine. And the energy zings down Violet’s spine and through her body. [01:42:00] Go, she demands. Everyone in the room is frozen in place, except for Violet.

[01:42:07] Ka-Ce: Wow.

[01:42:09] James: dun, dun. And actually, I wanted to So, we have 41 unbonded who are all trying to Get with, you know, a dragon, right?

[01:42:25] And so they’re like, I will kill you. And, and there’s still no guarantee that they’re going to get that dragon after they kill the rider.

[01:42:34] Ka-Ce: Correct.

[01:42:34] James: Like they’re also intent, like I’m going to kill you. And then I’m going to have Tairn and

[01:42:38] nobody’s considering that if they just kill her, Tairn is going to be like, all right, yeah, screw y’all

[01:42:42] and

[01:42:43] take off.

[01:42:44] Cause at this point, if she dies, I don’t think it would be enough.

[01:42:48] to kill him

[01:42:49] because they haven’t bonded that strongly yet

[01:42:52] and I feel like he would just be mostly annoyed like well damn it

[01:42:56] like, and then he’d be like well I’m not bonding now and he would just leave

[01:43:00] Ka-Ce: Exactly. I don’t think Tairn is the type want to bond if somebody were to kill Violet. I also think the audacity of Oren. He was one of the ones that was trying to kill Violet and Andarna. And yeah, he was knocked out, you know, when Tairn had flown in and torched Tynan. But you would think that somebody would have told Oren what had happened. You think Jack would have told him, or something, like he would have heard that Tynan died. He might not have known how Tynan died, but he would have heard that he died, and could assume, you know, Violet or whatever. What makes him think that Tairn is going to now bond him? It’s just that level of audacity that even Jack had, when Jack saw the image that Kaori did of [01:44:00] Tairn, in their class.

[01:44:01] And Jack is like, I want that one, and it’s like, dude, that’s not how it works.

[01:44:05] James: they don’t care what you want

[01:44:06] Ka-Ce: to pick the dragon. yeah

[01:44:09] James: I just don’t understand how any of them think that the Killing her is gonna be what makes Tairn be like, Oh, okay, I’ll bond with you instead. He just, from the get go, doesn’t seem like that kind of dragon.

[01:44:24] Ka-Ce: Like, he didn’t even want to come and bond in the first place. He came because Sgaeyl was like, come help Andarna. Yeah,

[01:44:32] James: Yeah, exactly. So, it just doesn’t seem like there’s a big thought process. But at the same time, I think a lot of people are just still itching to kill her anyway.

[01:44:41] Ka-Ce: Yeah

[01:44:42] James: And so, they’re kinda like, I’m gonna get your dragon. But even if they don’t get the dragon, they’re gonna be like,

[01:44:47] Yeah, but she’s still dead.

[01:44:48] So

[01:44:49] Ka-Ce: Yea. There is that.

[01:44:50] James: It’s kind of like a win-win for them.

[01:44:52] and

[01:44:57] I kind of, well, no, I’m not gonna go there. no, I don’t wanna, I don’t wanna lead any, any thoughts on anybody?

[01:45:06] I just was thinking about the whole scene with Jeremiah and, and Xaden and how quick he was to, to come up beside her, um, and just,

[01:45:25] Ka-Ce: Well, yea, it even mentions. I didn’t put this in the recap notes but Ridoc was actually next to Violet And Xaden moves Ridoc out of the way to stand next to her. So it’s very protective.

[01:45:39] James: well it’s,

[01:45:40] Ka-Ce: brief, but it’s

[01:45:41] James: it’s protective and I’m just wondering,

[01:45:44] knowing what I know now.

[01:45:47] If there was something else behind that, like, if he was trying to protect her, you know, in a way that only he could,[01:46:00]

[01:46:01] Ka-Ce: was he there because he didn’t want the secret of the meeting getting out?

[01:46:06] James: I

[01:46:07] Ka-Ce: Like if she were to randomly think

[01:46:08] about that?

[01:46:09] James: there’s that.

[01:46:11] Ka-Ce: Though I’m sure that was like probably the farthest thing from her mind while she’s watching this guy lose it.

[01:46:17] James: Yeah, but, you know, people have a tendency when whenever somebody, you know, like we were just watching in Buffy, the minute you know somebody can read your mind, your brain immediately starts bringing up all the things that you don’t want anyone to know. Like

[01:46:31] Ka-Ce: true. That is

[01:46:32] James: It’s like a weird panic reflex, like

[01:46:36] Ka-Ce: Yeah. I, was wondering too, knowing what we know now about Garrick and Xaden, they could have easily seen Jeremiah freaking out and ran for the hills, so to speak. So they wouldn’t be anywhere near him. So that whatever they have going on wouldn’t have been brought to light. And it’s very telling that Xaden came forward to step up beside Violet, putting himself potentially at risk.

[01:47:08] James: Yeah, what I’d like to know is for the inntinnsic, mind reading power, are they just assuming that they’re reading surface thoughts or, I mean, or is there a possibility that it wouldn’t matter what you were actually thinking and they could just go deeper on accident and that’s why they’re so quick to come in and snap their neck?

[01:47:33] Like, you know, like if a person’s looking at Violet and she’s sitting there going, you know, Navarre’s got a 600 year history, and, and, it’s like, yeah, that’s what you’re thinking on top, but, my power, like,

[01:47:45] Ka-Ce: can go deeper.

[01:47:46] James: deeper and into your subconscious, I’m pulling out, like, Oh, the marked one’s meeting under the tree, it, like, you know.

[01:47:55] Ka-Ce: I think, I think if inntinnsics were allowed to [01:48:00] develop their signets, that probably is what some of them could do. But we never get to find out, because once leadership learns that a cadet or a rider is inntinnsic, it’s like an automatic death sentence. Because it is a, it’s a security risk. If they can read minds, especially if they can read minds even while people are shielding, then they can get into leadership’s heads and

[01:48:30] James: Can’t have that.

[01:48:32] Ka-Ce: No. No, but I mean, it also could be such a great tool to use in war, you know, reading your enemies and stuff. It’s just, how do you, how do you say yes to one and no to another? How do you clamp somebody’s power while they’re around leadership or around somebody with a classified signet, but then turn them back on when they’re out?

[01:49:02] You know? Fighting the Griffins or whoever.

[01:49:08] James: Yeah, but who knows? Maybe if they let them train, they’d figure it out.

[01:49:15] Ka-Ce: put them in a secluded room where they can’t hear anybody and

[01:49:18] James: Yeah, I mean,

[01:49:19] Ka-Ce: introduce them to somebody one at a time, two at a time.

[01:49:22] James: Clearly they would have

[01:49:25] Ka-Ce: Figured something

[01:49:26] out. by

[01:49:27] James: I mean, it just seems like such a waste.

[01:49:30] Ka-Ce: There’s a lot at this college that seems like a waste.

[01:49:33] James: That is true.

[01:49:36] Ka-Ce: But I think that’s the only reason why. Dain was able to, um, to stay alive is because his inntinnsic signet only works with touch.

[01:49:47] James: Right? Yeah.

[01:49:52] And it’s only with recent memory. It’s, it’s not like he can dive in and see what you were doing, you [01:50:00] know, a year ago and be like, you’re a spy, a year ago on Tuesday, you were, you know, like,

[01:50:06] Ka-Ce: I mean, at least for now. He’s only a second year.

[01:50:09] James: Well, that’s

[01:50:09] Ka-Ce: knows what he can develop.

[01:50:12] James: they just haven’t really talked about it. So

[01:50:14] Ka-Ce: But,

[01:50:15] James: don’t know.

[01:50:17] Ka-Ce: Speaking of Dain, he mentions that he doesn’t question Amber because she’s a wing leader. But he seems to question Xaden a lot.

[01:50:28] James: No kidding.

[01:50:30] Ka-Ce: And is this because Dain and Amber were special friends?

[01:50:33] James: Oh, definitely.

[01:50:37] Ka-Ce: Yeah, that’s the only reason?

[01:50:38] James: I mean, it’s hard to mistrust somebody that you’re bed buddies with.

[01:50:43] Ka-Ce: Yeah. And she just happens to, like, love the Codex as much as Dain does?

[01:50:47] James: That’s probably the only reason they even banged.

[01:50:52] Ka-Ce: They both get high off of, not high, but they both get

[01:50:55] James: Like, she’s like, man I sure love following the rules in Codex, and he’s like, so do I! And she’s

[01:51:03] Ka-Ce: Talk Codex to me.

[01:51:04] James: Would you like to have some very consensual within the same year banging? And he’s just like, I would, do you mind if I read the codex while we do it?

[01:51:19] And she was like, yes, please do.

[01:51:24] Ka-Ce: Oh god, and it was probably missionary all the way, all the time. Sorry, I should not have gone there either.

[01:51:37] James: But yes, it’s a, it is, But I think it just goes to further show you the discrimination that the marked ones get. Simply by being marked.

[01:51:48] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:51:48] James: Xaden had no, role in what happened. He was a child. And him and the others are all blamed. [01:52:00] And that is used against them, continually. And, and, so from the get go, you know, it’s The, the distrust is, is there and like I said, it’s very unlikely for you to mistrust your bed buddy, like.

[01:52:24] Ka-Ce: Yea And he doesn’t even This is what frustrates me with Dain and his relationship with Violet. Because they grew up, they’re supposed to be like BFFs, you know. And Amber lits into him for an hour and says that Violet Acted dishonorably, with the whole gauntlet thing. And Dain doesn’t stand up for his best friend. Regardless if Amber is a wing leader or not. Like, he just sat there and took it, and didn’t say anything on Violet’s defense. Dain is her squad leader. And best friend.

[01:53:06] James: Yeah.

[01:53:09] Ka-Ce: That’s just He, he knows Violet’s character. He knows Violet the best out of everyone. He’s known Amber for, what, a year and a half. And he still takes her word for it.

[01:53:27] James: Well, he, he takes her word and he didn’t even ask Violet about it.

[01:53:31] Ka-Ce: Yeah, he just.

[01:53:34] James: Yeah, point blank, no second opinion. He probably didn’t even ask Amber to explain it or anything either. She probably bitched at him for an hour about her breaking the codex and all he would have done, all he should have done would have said, Okay, tell me exactly what she did so we can,

[01:53:56] Ka-Ce: and why you

[01:53:57] James: yeah, and why you feel like [01:54:00] she broke the codex and then we can look at it and say, She took the point penalty for using the rope.

[01:54:07] Um, but nothing in the Codex says that what she did was wrong. She brought it over the parapet. It’s considered within the Codex. It’s a technicality.

[01:54:17] Ka-Ce: yeah,

[01:54:18] James: Um, but she didn’t break the rules.

[01:54:22] Ka-Ce: yeah.

[01:54:23] James: And, you know, that could have gone such a, so far differently. Like,

[01:54:33] Ka-Ce: Yeah, and he didn’t even think to get Violet’s sight of it, he just took Amber at her word and believed that Xaden was bending the rules. If Xaden is bending the rules, he’s only doing it to make sure that Violet survives and that she survived. Up to this point, what has Dain done? To get Violet to this point. Nothing.

[01:55:01] James: yeah.

[01:55:01] Ka-Ce: Other than make, make her angry so she wants to survive. And prove him wrong.

[01:55:07] James: And what’s so wrong about bending the rules anyway? You’re not breaking them.

[01:55:12] Ka-Ce: Exactly.

[01:55:12] James: I mean rules are just technicalities. You should be looking at it and saying, well, technically, you stayed within the boundary of the rule, and I may not agree with what you did, but I’m a little impressed.

[01:55:27] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:55:28] James: You know?

[01:55:28] Ka-Ce: The right way isn’t the only way.

[01:55:30] James: Yeah, exactly.

[01:55:32] and I’m sure that that’s partly why he also He’s so quick to believe her, but he’s so quick to give Xaden crap because Xaden is a rule bender and Amber is not.

[01:55:49] Ka-Ce: But see, even right there, just between Amber and Xaden, Dain is totally dismissing Violet. And how do you do that after years of friendship?

[01:55:59] James: It really [01:56:00] does, yeah, he, he does seem to like dismiss her. Really fast. For

[01:56:06] Ka-Ce: quite a bit

[01:56:07] James: for

[01:56:07] Ka-Ce: somebody

[01:56:08] James: that’s supposed to be best friends, like

[01:56:10] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:56:12] James: Yeah, I don’t,

[01:56:16] Ka-Ce: so this is not an Onyx Storm spoiler. So no worries to everybody listening, and to my husband.

[01:56:24] James: I already knew this, so,

[01:56:27] Ka-Ce: oh, well, yeah. But a lot of people didn’t realize until the third book that Jesinia is deaf. People online were so confused, thinking that the scribes took a vow of silence. And this is really, really surprising to me, because I don’t understand where the confusion came from. Throughout Fourth Wing, scribes are talking. If they can talk, they are talking. They’re taking roll at conscription day. They’re not signing. They’re talking. The rollkeeper at Threshing is talking to Violet. She’s not signing to Violet. So at the, and at the beginning of chapter 18, this chapter, Violet talks to a first year scribe, and he says, Good morning, Cadet Sorrengail.

[01:57:12] I missed you yesterday. And she replies, Good morning, Cadet Pearson. I wasn’t feeling well. Markham, who is the leader of the scribes. I shouldn’t say leader. He’s a professor, you know, of the scribes. He teaches a class. He teaches battle brief. He is speaking. He also teaches the scribes. Markham is talking to Violet and to his students in the archives. And one of the cadets One of the cadet scribes also talks to Violet. The only person she signs to is Jesenia. The only purpose you would need to sign to somebody is if that’s their way of communication. Jesenia needs to sign because she [01:58:00] is deaf.

[01:58:01] James: So, what was the thing? People didn’t get it until Ridoc started doing it?

[01:58:08] Ka-Ce: People read, or skim read, All three books, and then came to the point in Onyx Storm and was like, Oh, Jesenia’s deaf. I didn’t realize that. How could you not realize that after reading Fourth Wing and Iron Flame?

[01:58:22] James: Well, that’s what I mean, did they not realize it until Ridoc was like, teach me to sign so I can talk to Jesinia, and then people were like.

[01:58:29] Ka-Ce: Oh no, Ridoc knows how to sign. Sawyer.

[01:58:31] James: Oh,

[01:58:32] yeah, yeah. That’s right. Sawyer.

[01:58:35] Ka-Ce: But that took place in Iron Flame.

[01:58:37] James: Oh,

[01:58:38] did that take place in Iron Flame?

[01:58:39] Ka-Ce: Yeah, so, okay, sorry guys, there was a little bit of a spoiler. But, yes.

[01:58:45] James: It’s not really a spoiler, I mean.

[01:58:48] Ka-Ce: Well So Guys, I don’t know, I don’t know, this is just a little, hmm. I just didn’t understand where the confusion was from. I don’t know if you at all were confused, but I never got the vibes that becoming a scribe meant that you had to take a vow of silence. None of the scribes at all seemed like they were taking a vow of silence when they were all clearly communicating with each other

[01:59:15] James: No, I got it. I got it right away. I read the thing and

[01:59:20] it was like, oh, she’s talking to the one. And then, and then I read and she signed, you know, good morning or hello. And I was like. Okay, wait, she talked to him and she’s like, Oh, okay, so Jesinia’s deaf. Cool. Like, I think we even had a conversation about, like, the whole inclusion thing and, just how, how she’s so, yeah, how Rebecca’s so good about including,

[01:59:43] and she does it very seamlessly, you know, including

[01:59:46] Ka-Ce: She does.

[01:59:47] James: The deaf character and

[01:59:49] you know, a couple of, um,

[01:59:51] You know, non binary, I think there’s at least, at least two.

[01:59:57] but you don’t, it doesn’t change [02:00:00] the story. And I think what it is, is because it’s included in such a way that it’s just expected.

[02:00:08] Ka-Ce: It’s expected, and it’s just normal for this world. Yeah,

[02:00:12] James: There’s no, yeah, there’s no like, spotlight focus on it, like, this is the character and this is the way that they are, and this, it’s just like,

[02:00:20] da da da da da da, da da da da da da. And it just, the story just goes, there’s no call out on it, there’s just no, special attention given to it, it’s just, this is this character and this is how she talks and this is who, you know, just.

[02:00:38] She does it very well. It just

[02:00:40] fits really nicely into the story without even having to double think it. Which I really liked.

[02:00:47] Ka-Ce: I agree. No, I, I really like, and I really like the representation and that it’s not awkward.

[02:00:55] None of the stuff that Rebecca has included or anything is awkward. It, like you said, it just flows and it’s just seamless and it’s just natural and it’s just the way our world in society should be.

[02:01:08] Should be. Give it another 200 years. If we’re not all on fire. Well, I mean, we won’t be on fire. We won’t be here.

[02:01:24] I also found it, it seemed pretty important to me, at least, know, Violet mentions that the Archives would have every book, unless it’s like an ultra rare or special book or something, and if they have books on Krakens and Chimeras, I still want to say Chimeras. Um,

[02:01:42] James: Chimera.

[02:01:44] Ka-Ce: yeah. Why don’t they have anything on the Wyvern and venin? It just seems kind of suspicious. And it’s like, they talk about Wyvern and venin several times, you know, her and Rhi, even her and Mira. [02:02:00] So why wouldn’t the archives have something on these creatures, but they have books on other creatures?

[02:02:09] James: Hey, no, because clearly, I mean, the stories are clearly told enough that people know about them, right? I mean, she grew up learning about wyverns and venin, and obviously everyone, you know, they’re the boogeyman under the bed, right?

[02:02:29] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[02:02:30] James: But it does seem odd that the very specific things cannot be found in the archives.

[02:02:36] You would think that they would have, still, a copy of basically the fairy tales, you know. It’s the Grimm’s Brothers fairy tales and the, you know, those kinds of things. And you say, yeah, I had this book when I was a kid and I want to read it now. And the archives are like, yeah, we don’t have that. But you have everything.

[02:02:57] Ka-Ce: Right.

[02:02:58] James: How do you not have that? And now that I think about it, how do you not have anything regarding that at all? Where did it all go?

[02:03:08] Ka-Ce: Right? Especially since her father was a scribe and worked in the archives, and he had a copy. He had the book.

[02:03:18] James: Yeah. Very questionable. Already making me question leadership and who is telling the, who has control of the narrative here and, and why those things would be left out.

[02:03:34] Ka-Ce: Mm hmm.

[02:03:34] James: just seems odd.

[02:03:36] Ka-Ce: It does. Especially since, you know, like, we learned earlier, like, the venin, they’re the boogeyman, and it’s because they channeled from the earth. But then, you know, Violet is saying, Or is it? She’s saying in the fables, you know, that they’re like parables. Stories to warn about the dangers of bonding to dragons. [02:04:00] So it’s like, completely different because they’re clearly all bonding to dragons. So it’s like two different

[02:04:08] James: Yeah,

[02:04:09] Ka-Ce: narratives going on. I don’t know. Just something to think about.

[02:04:17] James: I mean, isn’t that the way it usually works though? You know, control what the people read and and that’s it.

[02:04:23] Ka-Ce: Yup.

[02:04:24] One last thought, at least on my end, who do you think let the unbonded into Violet’s room? And who knew which room was Violet’s?

[02:04:35] James: yeah, I’m kind of ashamed of how long it took me to figure this one out.

[02:04:42] Knowing who it is now. I’m like, damn, I should have seen that coming. it, it is, it’s,

[02:04:50] yeah, we spent so much time like discussing the reasons for it. And then it’s like, just completely just whoop. but then when I found out who it was, I was like, oh, damn.

[02:05:11] Ka-Ce: I think Rebecca is just a mastermind when it comes to this kind of storytelling. Like, the clues are right there in plain sight. But you don’t realize them until after you read it. And then you go back and you’re like,

[02:05:26] James: Yeah, exactly.

[02:05:30] Ka-Ce: So we’ll be doing that a lot.

[02:05:31] James: Yeah,

[02:05:32] Ka-Ce: Throughout these books

[02:05:33] James: it was um, All I’ll say is that it was Not who I was expecting, but I was not surprised by it.

[02:05:47] Ka-Ce: Alright. Think we’ll discuss that next week. Who you thought it was. And who it ended up being. So we don’t give anything away tonight.

[02:05:58] James: Yeah, I don’t actually even [02:06:00] remember who I thought it was.

[02:06:04] but somebody who had a key. Dun dun dunnn. And on that note, I think that that brings us to the end of our recap. So next week, we’re going to be doing chapters 19 through 24 of fourth wing. Or, sorry, next Thursday we’ll be doing that. Because on Tuesday we will be doing chapters 15 through 21 of Crown of Midnight. So, try to keep track, try to stay on board.

[02:06:44] I’ve already confused myself at least twice now. trying to remember which chapters go to which thing. Once again, thank you so much for joining us this week, and we hope that you were able to enjoy some of our conversation, even when we tend to go off into the weeds. There’s a lot to unpack in these books, and it’s very easy to just go off on tangents when you’re trying to put pieces together.

[02:07:12] Especially when you start seeing things that you didn’t catch the first time and you’re like, Oh, son of a bitch. Okay. so, you know, give us a like, give us a follow. give us a conspiracy, give us a theory. We want it all.

[02:07:28] Ka-Ce: We do. We may even talk about your theories on the air.

[02:07:32] James: True that.

[02:07:36] Ka-Ce: Well, please, like he said, remember to like, subscribe, and comment. Your ratings and likes really do mean a lot to us. And if you like what you hear so far, share it with your friends and family. You can also check us out on TikTok, Facebook, Instagram. You can email us at hello at books, cats, and chaos dot com. As we head out, please don’t forget to give some love, major, major love over to our friends [02:08:00] over at K9 1 1 ResQ, K9 1 1 R E S Q. They are amazing people who do amazing work trying to save and adopt out all the animals that often get overlooked, the seniors, the handicapped, you name it. They try to help. Also, please give, a like and follow to Pasadena Humane Society. They have been working around the clock rescuing, treating, and trying to reunite animals from the LA fires. we will drop both of their links in our show notes. Please, please, please go visit them. Give them love. We’ll put their websites down below, but both of them are also all over social media.

[02:08:42] James: Alrighty. We hope everyone has a great, weekend. Great. A great rest of your week, a great weekend, and we will catch you again next week for the new episode.

[02:09:04] Ka-Ce: Alright, happy reading everyone!