Ep 2 Fourth Wing: Ch 7 – 12

[00:00:21] James: Hello, and welcome back to Books, Cats, and Chaos, the podcast where we explore epic tales, sprinkle in, actually don’t even sprinkle in anymore, this is just humor, and embrace the chaos of book loving, cat herding, coffee drinking, uh, and all the good stuff. My name is James.

[00:00:45] Ka-Ce: I’m Ka-Ce, and we are a husband and wife team who love all things that he just listed.

[00:00:53] James: If you are new here, we just want to let you know that, as of right now, our schedule is still on Tuesdays, we’re doing Throne of Glass, and Thursdays we are doing the Empyrean series. Throne of Glass is going to take Several months, because there are a lot of books in that series, and we didn’t want to wait to get through all of those before we started to talk about this, particularly because Onyx Storm just came out, and there’s a lot of good stuff, and I just happened to pick up it.

[00:01:25] The book and thought yeah, let’s see what happens and then I read it and I went all right Well, I guess this is my life now, so I’m almost done with iron flame. So I said Yeah, there’s no way we can wait until we’re done with Throne of Glass We have to get started on this one too because there’s just there’s too much good stuff to talk about so

[00:01:47] Ka-Ce: Yep, both are a very great series in their own right. So please make sure to have read Fourth Wing before continuing this podcast. It’s better if you [00:02:00] have read the full Fourth Wing book, but at the very least, you know, chapters 1 through 12, as today we are covering chapters 7 through 12. And as much as I am dying to deep dive The full series, Fourth Wing, Iron Flame, and Onyx Storm, all at once, I have to sit on my hands, because we decided to do it one book at a time.

[00:02:24] there are still many of you who are new to Fourth Wing, so we don’t want to spoil the later series for you. And mainly because James mentioned that he is still reading Iron Flame. So no spoilers for James, and for many of you. And with that said, There will, might be spoilers for 4th Wing as we go through 4th Wing.

[00:02:46] We’ll try to keep the rest of the book as, spoiler free as possible, but it’s better to have read it in its entirety when joining us.

[00:02:56] James: It is very difficult when For me particularly at this point as I’m reading through and I go, oh, that’s what the, oh, some bitch, that’s what that was. And you guys aren’t going to get the context. And so it’s very hard not to to be like, dang it. That’s what that meant. And that’s what that meant. And we’re going to do our best.

[00:03:16] But if you hear moments like that, maybe just take a minute and say, you know what, I’m going to notate this part. So that can come back to it later. But we will do our best to not actually outright say what the connection is, because

[00:03:30] Ka-Ce: Yep.

[00:03:31] James: it’s great when it unfolds for you in your brain. I mean, I’ve been, I’ve been bugging her about questions.

[00:03:39] I’m like, does this mean this? And does that mean that? And she’s like, read, you’ll find out, read, you’ll find out. And it’s like, you know, and

[00:03:48] Ka-Ce: I don’t want to spoil anything for you. You have to go on the journey. The same journey I went

[00:03:54] James: I, yeah, and it’s, it’s. Equal parts frustrating, [00:04:00] but equal parts, uh,

[00:04:01] also just good. Because when you start putting pieces together, you know, or particularly if you’ve read far enough in the series and then you come back, like what we’re doing for this, and you reread parts of it and you go, oh. Yeah, there’s a lot of like lightbulb moments that happen when you revisit this, which is why we say it’s best if you read ahead as much as you can so that when you come back for this discussion, you’ll hopefully also get some of those lightbulb moments.

[00:04:38] Because they’re great, you know, they just, and sometimes infuriating.

[00:04:43] Ka-Ce: Oh yeah. It’s an emotional rollercoaster. so do look out for a future episode where we will discuss the Iron Flame reveals, with Fourth Wing. it’ll probably be an episode in between our Fourth Wing coverage and our Iron Flame coverage. And then we may later do the same thing with Onyx Storm.

[00:05:05] Just a theory’s Sort of episode, no recaps, just all the little things that we picked up throughout the books. And

[00:05:14] James: Also we’re going to try to make some time to talk

[00:05:17] about all the things that I thought, and how many of them I got right.

[00:05:25] Ka-Ce: how many of you got

[00:05:26] James: And how many I got wrong. I would like to say I’m at least about 80 20 at this point. Most of the stuff I think I’ve actually gotten, If I haven’t gotten it in its entirety, I’ve at least gotten the core of it right, with a little bit of a left or a little bit of a right, like, I didn’t quite, uh, put into my, um, considerations, or, you know.

[00:05:50] But so far, I think I’m doing pretty good, actually. I don’t think I’ve really been off the mark too terribly bad.

[00:05:58] Ka-Ce: been, you’ve been rock [00:06:00] solid so far. I’m actually surprised.

[00:06:05] James: I, you know, me, I, I analyze and I overanalyze, especially when I know that there are things, I know that there are things that I’m missing and it is frustrating the crap out of me because

[00:06:17] Ka-Ce: (laughing)

[00:06:18] James: I’m racking my brain trying to think of what clues I missed. And, and some of ’em, it’s like, oh, that was the clue, but there’s no way you would even know until you reread or got farther.

[00:06:29] And then came back to it. Like, some of it is in plain sight, but it’s so well hidden because you don’t have the knowledge yet. So, that’s what makes it fun. That’s why it’s fun to talk about it, so.

[00:06:45] Ka-Ce: Rebecca Yarros is a mastermind genius with all of this. So the content reminder of this podcast is for adult audiences only as we will be using adult language, curse words, to discuss adult topics and themes and more. Fourth Wing, the Empyrean series, has violence and sex and we will be discussing those topics.

[00:07:05] James: Also has violent sex.

[00:07:09] Ka-Ce: Now don’t spoil it.

[00:07:10] James: Oh, I think people already knew that.

[00:07:15] If you haven’t already, but you are liking what you hear so far, then please don’t forget to rate, subscribe, or comment on this podcast, or on our YouTube, or any of our socials. we love to interact and put stuff up and hear from everybody. So, on that note, cadets, let’s tackle the gauntlet. That’s not, I don’t think they’re saying yay.

[00:07:43] Ka-Ce: I think Aurelie did.

[00:07:45] James: Well ok.

[00:07:48] Ka-Ce: Alright cadets. Chapter 7. It’s nighttime at Basgiath, and Violet is collecting an arsenal of things. Berries, roots, mushrooms, etc. To help her take out her opponents on the challenge mat. So far, her [00:08:00] squad has not lost anyone. She climbs her favorite oak tree, searching for the purple berries that will give her her advantage.

[00:08:07] When she has collected what she needs, she starts to descend, but realizes there’s movement under her. It’s Xaden and Imogen. Aw, shit. And they are soon joined by other cloaked Marked Cadets. Turns out Marked Ones have been meeting in the Rider’s Quadrant for the past two years. Xaden is looking out for them, but expects them to help themselves as well.

[00:08:27] Assigning those that need help with hand to hand to Garrick and Imogen. One of the First Years loses it and asks if Xaden can get him out of the Rider’s Quadrant, and Xaden tells him he’s not gonna make it and moves on. Harsh. Xaden is not one to mince words. Another First Year brings up Battle Brief, and Xaden tells them, Learn what the professors teach, keep what you know, but recite whatever they tell you to.

[00:08:52] Violet is shocked and appalled by this. Girl, just you wait. Marked Ones ask when they get to take out Violet. Xaden tells them that Violet is his to handle when the time is right. He orders everyone to leave in groups of three. Violet counts to 500 before making her way off the tree and then is promptly hurled against Xaden’s chest.

[00:09:15] Oh baby. turns out Xaden’s signet is shadow wielding and he knew she was there. Oh shit. After some dagger throwing on Vi’s part, which left Xaden a little impressed, he tells her she should do her knife trick on Barlowe the next time he’s being an ass.

[00:09:31] And oh my Dunne, Xaden re sheathes Vi’s daggers on her, his gaze locks on her braid, and his breath hitches. Xaden tilts his head, studying her. As she tells him, she won’t tell anyone about his secret club. And Ice prickles her scalp. Funny enough, he believes her, and tells her he owes her a favor of his choosing.

[00:09:53] He tells her to get back to the barracks before her wing leader finds out she’s out past curfew, and she tells him he’s her wing leader, [00:10:00] but Xaden has already left the chat. Alright, time for our thoughts, theories, and predictions! So at the start of each chapter, we get these little excerpts or blurbs that I like to call them, from different officers or, you know, cadets, riders and stuff.

[00:10:21] And for this chapter, we find out that there were two amendments made to Basgiath War College. Marked ones assembling in groups of three or more will now be considered an act of seditious conspiracy and is hereby a capital offense. We come to find out later that Melgren can’t see the Marked Ones when they gather in groups of three or more.

[00:10:46] He can’t keep an eye on them. which is why tonight’s little gathering, you know, would be a big no no if leadership or anyone were to find out. Leadership is keeping an eye on the Marked Ones to see if the children will also turn rebel like their parents did. And, we also later find out all the Marked Children end up in the Riders Quadrant, which Melgren is the general of, and the Marked Ones don’t get a choice of quadrants like the other conscripts do. Which, that’s fucked up.

[00:11:24] James: I wonder how long it took Melgren to figure out that, he couldn’t see the marked ones when they gathered.

[00:11:31] Ka-Ce: his dragon is the one that Executed all of their parents

[00:11:36] James: yeah,

[00:11:38] Ka-Ce: and all of their children ended up being marked

[00:11:41] James: right, by his dragon, right?

[00:11:43] Ka-Ce: Yeah

[00:11:44] James: Yeah. So it’s like his own, like his own thing works against him, which is a pretty big, uh, power flaw, honestly.

[00:11:57] Ka-Ce: it does kind of seem like that [00:12:00] Hot take I wish Violet would have questioned Xaden more About the whole like Not, maybe not specifically to him, but questioned herself and her teachings, um, when she learned, or when she overheard Xaden tell everyone, Learn what they teach you in Battle Brief, recite that, but keep what you know. Like, her training as a scribe was, you know, to find answers, to research to find answers and stuff.

[00:12:33] Wouldn’t you think her curiosity would have peaked at that point and be like, What do they know? Why is Xaden telling them? Keep what you know. What is different than what they know versus what our professors are teaching? I think, so far, she’s still early into the Rider’s quadrant, so she would be more of the scribe like mind.

[00:12:55] James: I think they do.

[00:12:56] Ka-Ce: and I think they’ve just pushed this. out really fast. it

[00:13:01] James: You know? Yeah. It would’ve been for a girl who Yeah. Literally questions everybody and is like, why are you doing this? And, and why are you? you know, forcing that and whatever. And for him to say something that’s in direct, um, um, conflict with, you know, what they’re taught, which is, you know, the professors are the ones who, um, are out on the front lines and they see, are not necessarily the, I, they get their information from the front lines, right?

[00:13:36] So, so they’re supposed to be. That next step on to the information that they get and obviously you would look at and say, they’re not going to tell us everything because some of it’s going to be classified, you know, but the way that Xaden says this makes it sound like, like the ones who are meeting here know a truth that nobody else knows and that the [00:14:00] professors do also know, but they’re not telling anybody for reasons, but that they’re also pushing them.

[00:14:06] An agenda that is different than,

[00:14:09] than the, than the truth. Right? It’s like a half truth or a, you know, just withholding information or, which we do actually see that later,

[00:14:17] considerably later, about, you know, the selective truths that they put forward and especially when others know and they’re like, that’s not it.

[00:14:25] Why aren’t they talking about this, or, you know, like, we know that this is a thing, and nobody’s talking about it? Like, you know, so, this is, I think, a peek into that. Xaden already knows that the professors deal in half truths and withholding information, and even information that’s not even classified sometimes.

[00:14:47] It’s just a matter of keeping the students, unaware and in control. Which, I mean, to be fair, you know, an uneducated populace is much easier to control than, you know, those who are in the know, you know? It’s, uh,

[00:15:06] Ka-Ce: A great commentary on

[00:15:11] Today’s.

[00:15:11] James: I mean, like, from a military standpoint, I get it. You know, they’re the soldiers. They don’t need all the information.

[00:15:19] And that can cause unrest where people disagree with, you know, decisions that are being made. but it does seem weird that Violet wouldn’t be looking at that being questioning and like, what do you, like, why would you say, why would you say that? Cause, um, it’s, uh, just, it’s an odd thing to say, you know?

[00:15:47] But she does it, she completely passes over it, like.

[00:15:50] Ka-Ce: I think her bias against the marked ones at this point is still really heavy.

[00:15:57] James: Well, yeah,

[00:15:57] Ka-Ce: mean. So [00:16:00] that probably was affecting her, her thinking and everything. I just, for her, who is always on. quest to learn, and to learn the truth and stuff. I thought that was just really glanced over. I also noticed, I don’t know if you picked up on this, but Xaden told the group Violet was his to handle, not take out, not kill, not destroy.

[00:16:26] Handle. And, the word sounds threatening and I can see where people would take it to mean kill her. But I feel like he purposefully said handle here and not kill.

[00:16:42] James: Well, uh, when you consider that this is one of those things that you’re gonna tie in later

[00:16:51] Ka-Ce: Take notes. Make a tab.

[00:16:54] James: but yes, because, because he knew that she was there in the tree, but nobody else did. So, handle is the word that he chose because he is going to handle her. He’s not going to kill her for reasons. whether that’s because he’s being sadistic, he wants to torment her some more, or string it out and just have her break under pressure.

[00:17:20] I mean, who knows, right?

[00:17:22] Ka-Ce: That’s true.

[00:17:22] James: Um, I mean, we know, but you guys, you have to get further in the book to know.

[00:17:28] Ka-Ce: I mean, that is a great psychological

[00:17:31] James: I mean, yeah. And it does, it works on her because she’s constantly like, Is it now? Is it going to be now? Where is he? Why? Like, Drives her absolutely nuts.

[00:17:47] Ka-Ce: does drive her nuts, and she views Xaden more of a threat than Jack. And Jack is the one actively like, I’m gonna slit your throat, I’m gonna kill you, I’m gonna do this, and Xaden’s just like, Yeah guys, I’ll [00:18:00] handle her when the time is right.

[00:18:01] James: And when is that? but yeah, it’s Handle is, like, enough of a thing that you can say that people look at you and go, Okay, like, he’ll get the job done. But it’s not quite as, um, You say kill, and then people are gonna come back later and be like, You said you were gonna kill her, and he’d be like, No, I said I was gonna handle her. And handle he does.

[00:18:34] Ka-Ce: Oh my god. Okay, moving on. We will see, and have already seen several times. When Xaden seems to be studying Violet, she feels that prickly sensation at her scalp. And she doesn’t get this feeling when Dain or Jack are studying her, only Xaden. What does it mean?

[00:18:55] James: It means that he’s, around. I attribute it to his shadow powers.

[00:19:04] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:19:04] James: know, or I mean at least that’s, you know, that was the working theory, was because we know his shadow powers are also very strong. Stronger than, than most of the other, uh, cadets, right? Like, in, in terms of their own signets, like, his shadow powers are just really strong.

[00:19:26] So I always just figured that she just was, maybe because she was always just hyper aware of his presence because, you know, a looming threat.

[00:19:39] Ka-Ce: Mm hmm.

[00:19:39] James: And so the shadows would give that kind of like, like, oh. He must be here somewhere because there’s something and, you know,

[00:19:52] Ka-Ce: Yeah. This will be one of the things that we’ll discuss, we’ll debate, in that special [00:20:00] Iron Flame fourth wing. Crossover episode. So I highly suggest reading Fourth Wing, reading Iron Flame, and then maybe rereading certain sections of Fourth Wing. I think some of the scenes take on a whole new meaning.

[00:20:15] James: definitely,

[00:20:16] Ka-Ce: we’ll, we’ll debate that

[00:20:18] James: they definitely, a lot of stuff in this book, it really makes you rework the way you view events in this book when you read through Iron Flame.

[00:20:29] Ka-Ce: Yeah, oh yeah.

[00:20:31] James: And I imagine it’s going to be that way when I eventually get to Onyx Storm. It’s going to make me rethink things in Iron Flame. And,

[00:20:38] Ka-Ce: And Fourth Wing.

[00:20:39] James: and, yeah, see, so.

[00:20:42] Just mark every page

[00:20:43] and write a note to yourself to come back and re look at this.

[00:20:46] Ka-Ce: Read

[00:20:46] the series, then reread the series.

[00:20:48] James: Everything means something. And then it means something else later. So. I’m telling you, there’s a lot, there’s a lot to absorb. Chapter 8. Dain has been walking her to her morning duty shift every day and Vi looks forward to it. He checks in on her, asks her if she’s okay with the challenges later that afternoon.

[00:21:12] She tells him not to worry, she’s been training with Rhi. What she doesn’t tell Dain is that she’s found the list of challenges that Brennan said would be posted, so Violet knows who she will be facing. Dain advises her to lay low with Jack Barlowe, and in classes, which is the complete opposite of what Xaden said, because Xaden said throw daggers at him.

[00:21:35] Maybe that’ll make him, you know, think twice about his, uh, um, Vi briefly feels bad for not Xaden’s secret club. But knows that holding the secret is the right thing to do. Xaden is looking out for the first years. They weren’t planning anything nefarious. Violet checks in for breakfast duty. She has, Dried, [00:22:00] powdered fonilee berries that she just happens to sprinkle on Oren Seifert’s eggs.

[00:22:07] Professor Kaori’s signet allows him to project what he sees in his mind, which makes his dragon class really cool. and This is where we get to learn some stuff about the the dragons. apparently, fewer dragons are willing to bond each year despite the number of riders entering the quadrant.

[00:22:27] No one knows why, and the dragons won’t tell. Dragons only talk to their bonded rider and only give their full names to their bonded riders, which this will be something to talk about in Onyx Storm eventually. So put a tab on it. actually, this whole thing is going to be something to discuss later when we learn about the dragons and the Empyrean and their own, politics and, because the dragons are not all in the same mindset either, they’re just like the humans, and so it gets really

[00:23:01] As you learn about the relationship of the riders and their generals and then the dragons and their uppers and the elders and oh man, it just

[00:23:10] Ka-Ce: called the Empyrean series for a reason. Not the Rider series.

[00:23:15] James: No blue

[00:23:18] dragons are willing to bond this year However, there are several blue ones in active service, of course Sgaeyl Xaden’s dragon It is typically forbidden for dragons to bond relatives of their previous riders, which we will go into that later too. There is one massive black dragon, Tairn, besides General Melgren’s, Codagh?

[00:23:48]  Codagh?  Codagh??  Codagh??  Codagh? I haven’t listened to the audio stuff, so. He’s the oldest of his den. Black dragons [00:24:00] are the rarest, smartest, most cunning, and most discerning. Reds are quicker to temper, and blues are ruthless and fierce. There are also greens and browns. And of course, Jack Barlowe, he wants Tairn, cause, I mean.

[00:24:16] Why wouldn’t you want the second biggest black dragon? Um, as if he has a choice on who the dragon bonds with. And I feel like this is something that everyone forgets a lot. Um,

[00:24:28] Ka-Ce: at least the bullies do.

[00:24:29] James: like, yeah. A Rider’s signet is the result of a unique chemistry between the rider and the dragon. And it says more about the writer than the dragon.

[00:24:38] The stronger the bond, the more powerful the dragon, the stronger the signet. Naolin was Tairn’s last rider and he could siphon from other power sources, dragons, riders, etc. and use the power or redistribute it. He depleted himself trying to revive a fallen rider who just happened to be Brennan, Violet’s older brother. Violet questions Kaori about why Naolin Would try to revive Brennan if he was already dead and Kaori doesn’t give him a straight answer. He tells her that he taught both her siblings and Vi is the smarter one and more compassionate. Not all strength is physical.

[00:25:25] Which is also something that Tairn also echoes to her later, too. Later that afternoon, Dain and Violet are standing near the challenge mats. I realize that that might have been a spoiler for some people, but I figure everybody knows that Violet and Tairn are the bonded pair, so I realize we haven’t gotten there yet, sorry guys, but you should at least know that much from the series, so Later that afternoon, Dain and Violet are standing near the challenge mats, watching [00:26:00] Rhi, go at it and kicking ass. Dain tells Vi he heard Oren and his friends talking about how they were going to take her out today on the mats, since they consider her to be weak and a liability to the wing. But Violet happens to see that there’s a greenish tinge to Oren.

[00:26:16] Vi congrats Rhi on her win. Jack taunts Vi, telling her it’d be a shame if someone else killed her before he did, cause bros got issues. Xaden’s words come back to Violet and she throws two daggers at Jack. One nearly nicks his ear and the other lodged itself in the wall an inch below his balls. This is twice now that she’s threatened his balls. And dude is just not, like, giving it up. fear widens his eyes and Violet waves at him. Dain is upset at Violet for not laying low.

[00:26:49] (clears throat)

[00:26:50] Chaol. but Vi feels a Prickle at her scalp and shifts her gaze to meet Xaden’s. There’s a hint of a smile on his lips as he leaves to observe fourth wing cadets on another mat.

[00:27:01] It’s Violet’s turn on the mat. Oren is now green and sluggish. She’s watched his fighting style for the last couple of weeks and knows when he will charge. For a moment he looks like he’s going to be sick, but then he charges anyway. Vi knocks him down and he throws up everywhere. Professor Emetterio says he’s done.

[00:27:20] He yields. For the next month, the hardest part of Violet’s plan is the timing of the poisons. Fifth week Vi supposed to challenge, Rayma, but V vi, sorry, but vi fed the poison too early, and she was taken to the healer’s quadrant. Let no problem, because Xaden is here to save the day, and he steps on the mat instead.

[00:27:48] Ka-Ce: I don’t know if he’s going to save the day but it’ll be fun.

[00:27:54] James: I mean, the fight was going to be canceled and he said, no, no, it’s okay. I’ll [00:28:00] take her on. I legitimately think everybody thought that Violet was going to die right here. Like,

[00:28:10] Ka-Ce: That was the end of the book.

[00:28:10] James: Like, I think everyone was just like, oh, Xaden, he’s making his move right now? Okay, yeah, it’s done. It’s over.

[00:28:17] Ka-Ce: He’s gonna make a big spectacle out of it in front of everyone. Yup.

[00:28:26] James: so as we tend to do, as we look at the relationships of the characters, we’re gonna, we’re gonna see a lot of comparisons between Xaden and Dain, because Dain is, you know, her, her best friend, and Xaden is her best shot at being killed. So . Dain is supposed to be looking out for her, right? He keeps telling her to lay low, but he

[00:28:59] ( James sighs) he’s really

[00:29:01] he’s

[00:29:01] like You can’t just tell somebody, like, lay low, don’t do anything, or whatever, and then, like, go off and do something else.

[00:29:09] Especially when Well, that might not be fair, actually, because he is still thinking of her as the scribe girl.

[00:29:18] Ka-Ce: (nods) he is

[00:29:20] James: she is already exhibiting a very rebellious nature

[00:29:24] Ka-Ce: A

[00:29:24] violent nature

[00:29:25] James: to survive, right? And, and I, so I think his mistake is he’s like, you need to lay low, you need to chill. He’s thinking, this is Violet, she’s going to be fine, she’ll listen to me because that’s how it used to be.

[00:29:40] And Violet is like, no.

[00:29:43] Ka-Ce: Its, yeah. She’s gotta do what she’s gotta do in order to survive. In order to not look the weakest.

[00:29:51] And Dain is kinda telling her the

[00:29:54] opposite.

[00:29:57] James: Yea… so[00:30:00]

[00:30:00] It’s

[00:30:00] it’s hard to be mad at him

[00:30:02] Ka-Ce: (blink blink)

[00:30:03] James: because he is sort of like, do this and then thinking that that’s the end of it. And he’s not taking into consideration that things have changed. And also as a squad leader, he, I think he should be paying way more attention to what she’s doing. Like.

[00:30:19] Ka-Ce: I agree.

[00:30:20] James: It is like, you need to be safe and you need to protect, dah, dah, dah, dah.

[00:30:23] But, but he’s still leaving her alone. Unprotected and basically like it’s like that’s great, but if I lay low and that doesn’t work Then what?

[00:30:39] Ka-Ce: Like, she tells him, you know, Rhi and Sawyer have stepped up and they’re training her in the hand to hand for challenges, but you would think that as her best friend, as her squad leader, he’d be like We need to do more. You need to do more. This is what you should be focusing on. Not, lay low in your classes.

[00:30:58] Lay low from Jack. Like, that’s just not helping your friend. And you’re not helping your squad. You are a squad leader. You should be looking at who are your potential weakest and trying to strengthen them up. he’s not doing that. I mean, and we later learn what the second years go through in Iron Flame.

[00:31:26] So that could be

[00:31:27] James: Yeah

[00:31:28] Ka-Ce: it. But at the same time, if he is such a good friend, why isn’t he doing more?

[00:31:39] James: Yeah,

[00:31:40] he’s

[00:31:40] Ka-Ce: Versus, we have Xaden, who’s a third year. He’s a wing leader, so we know that he is busy. He is strapped for time. But he’s making all the marked ones meet in secret and trying to find out what areas they’re having a problem with. And he’s assigning them to, you know, the senior [00:32:00] cadets and saying, okay, work on it.

[00:32:02] These two people, they’re the best fighters we have. You train with them. You know, battle brief, this is what you’re going to do. This is what you’re going to pay attention to. And it’s such a different, leadership dynamic.

[00:32:16] James: Yeah, well and That does go to show And again, we’ll learn, this is one of those things when you reread, you can have a better understanding about why Xaden is so invested in, uh, in this stuff, right? Like, oh, he’s a natural born leader. And it is really not that, it’s,

[00:32:43] Ka-Ce: It’s part of that. But it’s, there’s more.

[00:32:46] James: There’s so much more about just his everything that he does and has been through and, um, know, yeah, I’m not going to say much more about that, but, but but he is a good leader versus Dain, who maybe still kind of learning the ropes a bit. But yeah, he’s just, he’s not treating Violet like he would treat any other squad member because he, I think he still just can’t get past the idea that she is Um, that she shouldn’t be here. which would mean even more, help her more. Until you see her walk out that door to the scribes, you should be focused on protecting, training, keeping her safe, and, you know. I don’t know. It’s, A little irritating, the way he just got kind of a half, half assed, like, Just lay low, and they’ll leave you alone, and it’s like, that’s not,

[00:33:48] Ka-Ce: That’s not gonna

[00:33:48] James: that’s not how it works, dude.

[00:33:50] Ka-Ce: No. So, what are your thoughts on why so many of the dragons are [00:34:00] unwilling to bond? But, what is happening? you had just finished fourth ring, not too long ago. So what were you thinking now versus, you know, when you’re almost at the end of Iron Flame? I,

[00:34:14] James: I, you know, I still don’t have, like, a definitive reason

[00:34:17] for this, um,

[00:34:19] My thoughts kind of go halfway, like,

[00:34:21] Less of the dragons are less willing to bond because as we do learn at some point, there’s a fair amount of a discord within the dragon’s own political society. we don’t know what it’s about. We don’t know, why one is choosing what and, because we’re not privy to that information, because dragons don’t share that information with humans.

[00:34:46] And so. Because we’re doing this from Violet’s point of view, we’re also not privy to that information. We just know that there is some sort of discord happening within the, I don’t know what they call it, the Council of the Dragons, right? Um, and so initially I thought it was just the dragons were getting kind of just like, eh, I don’t see the point.

[00:35:11] This is annoying. Humans are annoying. But now as I’m reading more, you know, in Iron Flame, and the thing is, even through Iron Flame, at least where I’m at, and I only have, I don’t know, maybe a hundred, maybe less than a hundred pages before I’m done, there’s still no like definitive answer about why the dragons are bonding less and less. But I imagine it has something to do with their views on the humans and the wards and just the whole split between, I don’t know, it’s hard to, I don’t know. I just know there’s, there’s, there’s something that not [00:36:00] everybody is agreeing with.

[00:36:02] Ka-Ce: it will be a reoccurring question, I think, throughout the series, until the end.

[00:36:07] James: So even in Onyx Storm, we still don’t really have an, uh, idea about what the deal is, or

[00:36:13] Ka-Ce: No, no, that’s the only, thing I’ll tell you about that.

[00:36:17] James: Yeah.

[00:36:21] Ka-Ce: So we also learn that it’s forbidden for dragons to bond relatives of one of their previous riders. We don’t know, or at least it’s not clear to me, who made this rule. Dragons or humans. We do know that dragons are above human rules and laws, so was this a human made rule and the dragons have just agreed to it, or is this a dragon rule for a specific reason?

[00:36:47] We just don’t know what yet. This is something to be also tagged for later.

[00:36:53] James: Do we actually find out who made that rule?

[00:36:56] Ka-Ce: I don’t think so.

[00:36:58] James: We just know it was a rule, and we know why that is the rule. But it kind of seems like the dragons don’t actually really pay that much attention to it. Like,

[00:37:09] Ka-Ce: Dragons do what they

[00:37:10] James: kind of do, but at the end of the day, they’re like, nah. I like you. I think I won’t eat you. Or, or fire breath you today.

[00:37:18] And you’re like, alright, cool. Is there a family thing here? I don’t care. It’s not up to me.

[00:37:28] Ka-Ce: So I have a, a question, and this has not been answered yet. I don’t know in which book it may or may not be addressed, but do you think we’re gonna get an epic showdown between Tairn and Codagh? So, Codagh’s currently the biggest, largest black dragon and Tairn is the second biggest black dragon. There’s only two.

[00:37:53] Black dragons so far.

[00:37:56] James: I don’t know. I mean, [00:38:00] it’s obvious that they do not, um, see eye to eye on things from their interactions. And particularly when you get up into Iron Flame, you see a little bit more of that too. That Tairn has his opinions, and Codagh has his opinions, and they are strong opinions.

[00:38:22] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:38:23] James: Um, we do know that Codagh’s bigger. and I think that would, you know, if they did do it, that would be a f Tairn would be in for a fight for his life, because there aren’t a lot of other dragons willing to go up against him, Tairn. But

[00:38:41] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:38:43] James: Tairn’s also not stupid. He’s full of himself, you know, and his abilities, but he’s not stupid.

[00:38:50] Ka-Ce: No, no, he’s very smart and very cunning.

[00:38:54] James: I don’t know, I mean, That would be, I kind of hope not, because I feel like Tairn wouldn’t walk away from that very easily. So But, Melgren’s also a dick, so

[00:39:09] Ka-Ce: yeah. I want to know how absolutely no one else realized that every single one of Violet’s opponents were getting sick in some sort of way before her challenges. Even Rhiannon and her friend, who is shown to be really observant, with a lot of things, didn’t really catch on.

[00:39:34] James: This is actually probably one of the more little frustrating things in this part of the book because

[00:39:44] Ka-Ce: Did this frustrate you?

[00:39:46] James: Oh, it did. She did

[00:39:50] this to, what, five of her opponents?

[00:39:54] Ka-Ce: Yes.

[00:39:55] James: I can see

[00:39:56] Getting away with it once or twice

[00:39:59] Ka-Ce: but by the third

[00:39:59] James: [00:40:00] and the fourth time, somebody should be looking at that and being, why is every opponent of Violet’s getting sick?

[00:40:07] Ka-Ce: I mean. I think one of the ones like their whole squad ended up getting sick because they all ate off the same breakfast tray.

[00:40:15] James: yeah,

[00:40:15] Ka-Ce: but it was still one of her opponents.

[00:40:18] James: But there’s a pattern and it’s a very definitive pattern that I feel like anybody with half an observational skill would look at that and be like, That’s, that’s two in a row. Okay. That’s three in a row. That’s four in a row.

[00:40:39] Ka-Ce: Even, even if none of the other cadets really realized it because, you know, they’re all focusing on their own challenges, you think Professor Emetterio would have picked up on something since he has to watch them and notes on them.

[00:40:54] James: I mean, maybe it’s because none of them were fully incapacitated and they always showed up, except for the one girl who, you know, had to go to the Healer’s Quadrant early. Um. And, you know, they all try to fight. But still, she’s literally winning all her fights based off of her opponents being unable to, I mean, the one was basically like seeing colors and stuff like That That on its own seems fairly odd.

[00:41:22] Or if nothing else, why is the professor not out there? Like, this cadet is clearly on mushrooms Has anybody else come into contact with mushrooms? Did you guys go out and pick them? Where’d they come from? Who else has access to this? Because this is a very serious problem if you guys ate these on accident or somebody ate these on purpose.

[00:41:46] and I feel like somebody somewhere should have got that.

[00:41:51] Ka-Ce: no, I agree. I was just like Yeah, you got away with it a couple times, but five weeks in a [00:42:00] row?

[00:42:00] James: Two, three at the max, but five is plot armor. Yeah, it was, it was annoying.

[00:42:16] Ka-Ce: Sorry you felt that way. It’s okay, I felt the same way too. Alright, flying into chapter nine. Dain immediately tries to argue about Xaden challenging Violet on the mat, saying he’s a little out of her league. And one has to wonder if Dain means this in more ways than one. Xaden discharges all of his weapons, but Vi keeps her daggers. She’s not stupid.

[00:42:39] She immediately throws one at him and he’s able to catch it mid air. What the fuck. Xaden knocks her to the mat, blocks her strikes and kicks. also the first time he introduces his nickname for her, Violence. He easily disarms her just because he can. And while doing all of this, he gives her quick, quiet advice, and she realizes the lesson is just for her, despite other cadets watching. Don’t trust a single person who faces her on the mat. He expects her to learn from her mistakes. He also lets her know that taking people out before hitting the mat is smart, but she’s not testing herself and she won’t get better. Yes. Once he has her Oh, you have a thought?

[00:43:26] James: I’m just wondering now, based on what I just read, whether, whether he caught on to her poisoning people because he’s observant? Or because of the other things.

[00:43:49] Ka-Ce: That’s a question for our bonus episode that we will, uh, debate about.

[00:43:53] James: Right? I mean

[00:43:55] Ka-Ce: Well, also, think about, he caught the dagger in midair

[00:43:59] James: Well, [00:44:00] I was gonna say that too, like

[00:44:02] Ka-Ce: Not his shadows,

[00:44:03] James: No, it all makes a little bit more

[00:44:06] Ka-Ce: More

[00:44:06] James: sense now, like

[00:44:10] Ka-Ce: you just having that lightbulb

[00:44:11] James: Yeah, no, it, it, it’s like, oh, okay. And yeah, there’s really just no way that she’s going to get away from him. Cause yeah, you guys, you’ll get there when you get there, but you have to get through 90 percent of iron flame to, to get it. So unless you’re smarter than me.

[00:44:33] Ka-Ce: Xaden has her on the floor, he notes that she’s tiny. Like he’s realizing it for the first time, and tells her to stop going for bigger moves that expose her. He guides her hands to show her where to strike. Kidneys, rib shot, the waist. These are all killing blows, vital blows, and so far Violet has been trying to avoid those.

[00:44:55] He further tells her that Dain is holding her back, and defenseless women have never been his type. When the match is over, Xaden tells Dain to stop coddling her and to actually train her. Yes, thank gods. That’s what we’ve been saying. Later that evening, Dain gives Violet a massage and tells her he told Colonel Markham that he thinks Xaden wants to kill her. Dain also told Markham about Barlowe and Oren. Markham agrees to still take Violet into the Scribe Quadrant. Say that ten times fast.

[00:45:27] James: No,

[00:45:29] Ka-Ce: Violet accuses Dain of going behind her back because he thinks she’s not cutting it. Dain informs Violet that first years take out vendettas during threshing. Second and third years can’t do anything.

[00:45:40] They can’t step in. They can only watch. Dain doesn’t want to lose Violet. He wants to protect her, but part of Violet knows she’s actually made it this far. What else can she do? He’s giving her a way out, but really she wants to stay.

[00:45:57] James: that was a big turning point for Violet, I think. [00:46:00] When, she realizes that she could, like, she has been given a way out, right? She didn’t want to be here, but then she actually made it across the parapet and she didn’t die.

[00:46:15] Ka-Ce: Mm

[00:46:16] James: And then she’s like, holy crap, I’m here, I’m alive, I did it. And then she finds herself feeling more at home in the Rider’s quadrant. Even though she was fully prepared and trained for the Scribe Quadrant. And I think she would have been happy in the Scribe Quadrant. Like, what you don’t know that you missed. Like, you can’t miss, right? What you don’t know.

[00:46:43] Ka-Ce: Yeah. Mm

[00:46:44] James: But this is one of those things where she found, a truer calling than the other thing.

[00:46:53] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:46:54] James: But Dain Refuses to see that because, to his credit, he is trying to keep her alive, and

[00:47:02] Ka-Ce: In his

[00:47:03] way

[00:47:03] James: he’s being very overbearing, but go through the journey with Dain, and it’ll make sense, and you’re gonna, you’re gonna go down lows, but you’re gonna come up highs, and

[00:47:18] Ka-Ce: I mean, yeah. No, when I first read Fourth Wing and Most of Iron Flame, I was pissed. I did not like Dain. I was like, mm mm. No, he’s holding her back. This is not what a true friend would do. I, I, I was pissed. it took a reread of both books, and it took watching a couple of, uh, Rebecca Yarros um, interviews and stuff but, after reading Onyx Storm and then coming back its like you see a different side of him and you start to understand him a little bit more so I don’t hate [00:48:00] Dain now, but yea my first read I was just was I don’t mmmm

[00:48:06] James: you

[00:48:06] Ka-Ce: I still get frustrated.

[00:48:08] James: I mean, I was, you, you saw me go through that whole journey cause I was, yeah, I was right there and I was just like, I cannot believe, but, but yeah, it does, it, it all kind of comes together in iron flame and you just, you sit there and you’re like, ah, damn.

[00:48:31] Ka-Ce: But, I mean, do you feel like, I mean, you, you’ve known me since, God, like my sophomore year of high school. Do you feel like he’s overstepping here? Like, would you be this protective, overstepping, if, if it was us?

[00:48:51] James: That’s a hard question, because one

[00:48:55] we’re not in, like, a life or death, you know, situation. at this point in the story, it’s very easy to feel like he is overstepping and he’s limiting. But when you get through Iron Flame, now looking at this, it’s very easy to look back at it and say, he was doing the best he could with what he had.

[00:49:18] So it’s hard to be mad at him, and I can understand it from his, from his point of view, but it is hard because at some point you do have to let a person make their own decisions.

[00:49:31] Ka-Ce: yes.

[00:49:32] James: But at the same point, you know, it’s somebody you care about and you want to protect them from everything, so.

[00:49:39] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:49:42] James: I don’t envy his position, that’s for sure.

[00:49:45] Ka-Ce: No, no, I don’t. We are told by Dain that the Rider’s Quadrant changes a person, so it kind of makes you wonder what happened to Dain in his first year to make him such a rule [00:50:00] follower and codex obsessed. we do learn that Violet does tell Rhi that Dain was always a rule abiding, and he’s always liked order, and I think that just comes with the territory of who his dad is, but I feel like something must have happened during his first year to make him even more rigid,

[00:50:21] James: Yeah,

[00:50:24] Ka-Ce: whereas on the flip side, Xaden’s a wing leader who’s, you know, that’s very top

[00:50:28] James: yeah, he’s already

[00:50:29] Ka-Ce: leadership thing. And he’s like, he’s within the codex, but he’s not like, you know,

[00:50:36] James: But there’s always people like that, you know. People who are like, the rules are there, and we can get by on technicalities.

[00:50:44] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:50:44] James: then there’s people who are like, no, the rule says what the rule says, and that’s what the rule says, and technically they’re both right. Unless you’re outright breaking the rule.

[00:50:56] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:50:56] James: See I’m more of

[00:50:57] the type who, who skirts technicalities.

[00:51:00] Ka-Ce: Should you be admitting this on the air?

[00:51:03] James: If I can find a way to reinterpret a rule in my favor,

[00:51:08] Ka-Ce: (laughing)

[00:51:09] James: I will.

[00:51:10] And they’ll be like, it says this, and I’ll be like, well, yeah, but technically it could also mean, because it doesn’t actually say not to do this. I’m just saying. I get it.

[00:51:27] Ka-Ce: (laughs) Other than Xaden totally wiping Violet’s ass on the mat, do you think Violet was actually in any danger? Like what part of that whole exchange made Dain think Xadan was going to kill her? Because Xadan clearly could have, within seconds, but he didn’t. He kept making Violet try over and over and over again.

[00:51:49] James: I think, you know, at this point right now, Dain is probably viewing Xaden as a [00:52:00] predator toying with his meal, right? Like, cause he’s, he’s fully convinced that Xaden’s gonna kill her at some point, or try to. And he’s gonna do it at a point where Dain can’t get into, I mean, this would be the perfect time to do it, right?

[00:52:18] And Dain’s probably on the sidelines looking at like, he’s got her pinned, he’s gonna kill her. But then he doesn’t. And the anxiety that Dain is probably feeling at this moment, like, What, what is he waiting for? Is he toying with her? Is he messing with me? Is he, like,

[00:52:35] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:52:35] James: know, cause Violet thinks that he’s toying with her.

[00:52:39] Um. And, and then she’s like, why is he showing me ways to disarm and get out of this, you know, kidney shot, rib shot kind of stuff? And it’s like, Are you messing? I mean, that’s a great psychological attack. Like, let the person think they have a chance. And then be like, and now that you’ve learned that, snap.

[00:52:57] Like,

[00:52:57] Ka-Ce: That-that is true.

[00:52:59] (laughing)

[00:52:59] James: you had a chance?

[00:53:00] Ka-Ce: Is it all… is It all a big game to Xadan? (sipping drink).

[00:53:04] James: I could

[00:53:05] see where you would,

[00:53:06] Where you would assume that.

[00:53:08] I think, but by this point, I was already kind of at this point, I was like, you know what?

[00:53:13] There’s something going on. And he’s keeping her alive for some reason. I don’t know why yet. But at this point, the only person or people who seem convinced that he’s going to kill her are Dain and Violet. Even though he personally hasn’t done a single thing. To do it. And he has had so many I mean, he could have killed her out by the tree. And nobody would have even known.

[00:53:44] Ka-Ce: No. No. He could have snapped her neck and threw her in the river or any other sort of thing.

[00:53:49] James: Or just strangled her with the shadows and no, nothing. He wouldn’t even have to touch her. And that’s the whole thing. He could kill her at any point. Now, I realize that they [00:54:00] have to operate within the codex, right? But if he’s already out there meeting with the marked ones, he’s already breaking codex. So it’s really not that far fetched to say, Oh, you shouldn’t have been out here, shadows snap thrown in the river.

[00:54:17] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:54:18] James: Codex or no codex, if there are no witnesses, it doesn’t matter.

[00:54:23] Ka-Ce: Well, and he’s also a wing leader, so if he finds a weakness within his own wing, he’s well within his rights to,

[00:54:31] James: Yeah, so. Just the fact that he hasn’t done it at this point, I was already like, I don’t think he’s going to do it. I don’t know why, but I don’t think he’s going to do it. There’s

[00:54:44] Ka-Ce: Well and he has also

[00:54:46] even told her, because she’s keeping his secret about the Marked Ones meeting, he owes her a favor.

[00:54:52] James: Mm hmm.

[00:54:53] Ka-Ce: I don’t think someone that’s going to kill you is going to be like, I owe you a favor.

[00:55:00] James: Yeah. Yeah, so. For the moment, he’s on her side. Sort of. He’s at least not actively against her. So.

[00:55:14] Ka-Ce: He’s doing much more than Dain is.

[00:55:16] James: I mean, that’s true. They’re supposed to be mortal enemies and, and he’s already done more to train her than Dain has, so.

[00:55:25] Ka-Ce: Yep.

[00:55:27] James: So as if that wasn’t enough, all, you know, the training and Xaden getting all up in her business and, and uh, making her confused. The cadets get to move on to the next part of their training. And so chapter 10, we move to the gauntlet, which is basically American Ninja Warrior, but it can kill you. So,

[00:55:54] Ka-Ce: And it will kill you.

[00:55:55] James: and yes, the gauntlet is an obstacle course on the side of a cliff that [00:56:00] guards the veil. It zigzags back and forth. So American Ninja Warrior, but vertical up a cliff, which would be fun if there was something to catch you on the way down.

[00:56:11] Ka-Ce: And if it was all padded, like American Ninja Warrior is.

[00:56:14] James: Right, yeah. It’s called the gauntlet because it guards the veil. And the veil is where the, young dragons and the hatchlings and all of them are protected while they grow. Aurelie, can’t wait to do it as she’s trained with her brother and their dad, who happens to be Also be a rider. Ridoc and Tynan share words as Tynan is increasingly becoming a shit thanks to his friendship with Jack and Oren. Sawyer tells everyone that time doesn’t mean anything on the gauntlet. The last cadet to walk presentation bonded just fine. Hand to hand challenges are on hold for two and a half weeks as the first years train on the gauntlet.

[00:57:02] Tynan insinuates that Dain and Vi have been screwing around. Luca agrees, Rhi steps in to set them straight. Daddy Aetos is General Sorrengail’s aide, so Lilith Sorrengail, Violet’s mom, for those who are not keeping track of

[00:57:23] everything.

[00:57:23] Um, so Dain’s dad is

[00:57:26] Violet’s mom’s aide, and they’ve been stationed together for as long as Dain and Violet had been alive, which is why they’re best friends.

[00:57:33] Ridoc also steps in and

[00:57:36] Tynan and Luca probably shut up because they’re like, look, they’ve grown up together. They aren’t screwing around. They’re literally friends from childhood. Sawyer demonstrates the gauntlet, having gone through it the year before. Everyone else follows after. Tynan gets stuck and has to use a rope to get back down from the course. just like the parapet, Violet finds herself [00:58:00] reciting notes to calm herself down as she goes through. And if you guys ever find the time, you should look up, Some of the stuff that people put on social media for this, like, the way that they’ve mapped out, like, 3D models and stuff. It kind of gives you an idea of how the course looks, and it’s pretty fun.

[00:58:15] And then you also look at it and go, They’re, like, trying to kill these kids, like.

[00:58:20] Ka-Ce: Actively trying to kill them in this quadrant.

[00:58:22] James: I know for sure I wouldn’t have made it through this thing. While on the gauntlet, Violet is just ahead of Aurelie and a dragon flies by overhead, startling them. Aurelie slips and falls while on the rotating logs, and it happens so fast that she’s unable to grab the rope and she falls to her death. Violet is helpless and she can only watch.

[00:58:45] The first trial of the gauntlet has already taken out many of the cadets once everyone is done. Vi was able to make it to the chimney section of the course, but she’s too short to span the distance. After the chimney section, the final section is the ramp that simulates running up the dragon’s leg to get to your seat.

[00:59:03] So she’s going to have to figure something out. not completing the gauntlet is not an option. You either complete it, or you die. Again, what the hell? Violet volunteers to take Aurelie’s stuff to the burn pit as she was the last one to see her, declining Dain’s offer to go with her. At the edge of the turret, Violet sees shadows of three dragons approach from the west and descend.

[00:59:33] She seriously contemplates Dain’s request to hide out in the Scribe Quadrant. If someone who practiced their whole life for the gauntlet died their first time actually on it, how is she going to make it? As she heads back, the door to the tunnel that leads to the gauntlet opens. Violet presses against the wall, hiding herself in the shadows and waits as Xaden, Bodhi, and Garrick pass by. [01:00:00] and of course She’s hiding in the shadows. Xaden’s already told her that he commands the shadows. So But, to be fair, I would assume that means that Garrick and Bodhi don’t know that she’s there and, you know.

[01:00:16] Just because Xaden’s not ready to kill her doesn’t mean the other two aren’t. So, you

[01:00:22] As they discuss what more they can do, Violet feels that prickling in her scalp again, and of course Xaden knows that she’s there.

[01:00:31] Xaden sends Bodhi and Garrick ahead and is surprised when Violet doesn’t question him on where he’s been. She retorts saying that she doesn’t care, and with a head tilt to the side, as if he’s studying her or reading her, he says, You really don’t, do you? This is where the intrigue begins, maybe. He’s like, I’m accustomed to people caring, and you literally don’t give a shit.

[01:01:00] He questions her about being out past curfew, and she tells him she’s debating running away. And he tells her he debates the same thing. She wants to know if he’s going to kill her or what. And he’s basically like, or what?

[01:01:13] Uh, Violet notices the subtle things, like Xaden, Xaden shit, like Xaden’s jaw ticking when he sees the scrape on her cheek. When he grabs her, his hold is firm, but light, and she even feels a caress along the side of her wounded cheek, even though he doesn’t touch her there. He admits he knows everything that goes on here.

[01:01:34] He wields shadows, but I, mm, yeah.

[01:01:39] Ka-Ce: Oh, yea, you’re starting to connect somethings.

[01:01:41] James: That was a, that was a definite, uh, uh, thing.

[01:01:44] Perfect excuse for him, but,

[01:01:46] Read Iron Flame, you’ll, you’ll get it.

[01:01:48] Further proving his wing leader abilities, he gives her more advice. Focus on things that can kill you so you can find ways not to die. What makes her a rider is what she does [01:02:00] after people, after people do die.

[01:02:03] He further surprises her, telling her that she is the scale that he currently judges himself against every night. Every day he lets her live, he gets to convince himself that there’s still a part of him that’s decent. And, before he goes, he has a final bit of advice in regards to the gauntlet.

[01:02:23] The right way isn’t the only way. Figure it out.

[01:02:29] Ka-Ce: Again, even when he’s being threatening he’s still helping.

[01:02:33] James: Right, he’s actually kind of a nice guy. In a very, in a very threatening, But I like that she’s at this point, she’s like, are you, are you just gonna do, are you going to kill me? Because I would really like to know. And he’s like, eh, you can just keep wondering about that.

[01:02:51] Ka-Ce: That’s some shit you would say.

[01:02:54] James: I know, there is, you know what, there is, there is so much with their interaction though now when you reread this and you’re just like, ugh, like, yeah, basically outing himself and, yeah,

[01:03:09] Ka-Ce: He is, he is.

[01:03:11] James: It made me really sad that Aurelie died on this and this was just their trial run. To get accustomed to the course, it wasn’t even one of the actual, like, timed events.

[01:03:24] She didn’t even make it past the, the training thing. And she had been doing this since she was, like, five or six or something. Like,

[01:03:35] Ka-Ce: I, I feel like Rebecca does this on purpose. She gives us like this little bit of backstory, this cute like little thing, you know, with Dylan in the first chapter. He has this ring, he wants to propose. What happens? He falls off the fucking parapet. And now Aurelie. She’s so excited for, for Gauntlet. Her brother enjoyed it.

[01:03:57] Somehow. her father’s trained [01:04:00] both of them all their lives on it, and she was just like, Yes! Let’s do it! And what happens? She’s running on those spinning logs, like, going from one to the next, and a dragon flies by, roars, startles her, and down she goes. And that’s it.

[01:04:16] James: yeah. And that is a trend. We will see that continue into Iron Flame.

[01:04:21] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:04:22] James: It’s so messed up.

[01:04:25] Ka-Ce: Violet says that they have to complete the gauntlet or fall to your death. And I want to know, so they, they are going to practice on this, this course for two and a half weeks, and then they’re going to have like the final timed event before presentation. What happens if you can’t make, make it up the gauntlet?

[01:04:50] Do they expect you to like throw yourself off and die? Cause I don’t see people doing that.

[01:04:57] I

[01:04:57] James: imagine that staying on any part of the gauntlet for any length of time is just gonna be really uncomfortable. And eventually your arms or your legs would give out and you’d fall anyway. Um, not like there’s enough space up there to like, lay down and be like, this is where I live now. You know what I mean?

[01:05:16] It’s like, you’re stuck somewhere and the expectation is You keep going, or you’re gonna just become so exhausted that, or you’re gonna attempt to climb back down and then fall off, or, you know, because exhaustion will eventually overtake you, so.

[01:05:36] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:05:37] James: At least that’s, you know, kind of how I envision.

[01:05:41] Ka-Ce: Yeah. Okay. That makes more

[01:05:43] James: You’re not going to come back two days later and see a rider still up there. Because I just don’t think there’s

[01:05:48] Ka-Ce: hiding out.

[01:05:49] James: I just don’t think there’s anywhere for them to really, like, chill for a long period of time. Without just, rolling off in their sleep, or, you know, cramping and falling, [01:06:00] just something.

[01:06:00] Like,

[01:06:01] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:06:02] James: um.

[01:06:04] Ka-Ce: Basgiath seems like a death factory, especially the Rider’s quadrant. Like, we talked about that, you know, with parapet, like, there’s no net or anything to catch them. And I think you even mentioned, like, you can weed out the weak without so much unnecessary death.

[01:06:20] And here’s this other course that they have to go through and it’s either complete it or die. I would think that they would want as many able bodied people to be in their army. And so I think, like, nets or water or something to catch them. Would make more sense, and then like, oh, you failed, you can either restart, you know, in the next year, or off to the infantry you go.

[01:06:48] James: Yeah, basically, like, you fell off of the gauntlet, so you died, quote unquote. And you can try again next year, or you can, yeah, you can go to one of the other quadrants. there are no retries today, here, like, you get one chance. You fail, and that’s it. but it does, it’s, it seems, it’s so unnecessary. They lose, by the time they get through all this, they lose like 50 percent of their cadets, like That’s not an efficient way of utilizing your most important asset of, you know, of people to fight this, you know, war that they have going on. So you’re like, yeah, we’re weeding out the weak, um, but we’re also, like, shortening our bodies by a considerable amount. It just, it seems like.

[01:07:42] You know, I wouldn’t say it’s just poor planning. It seems very deliberate that they’re doing this. And yeah, I would be curious to know whether it’s the humans who came up with this, or is it the Empyrean who’s like, look, we’re gonna do the bonding thing, but there’s some rules, like.

[01:07:59] Ka-Ce:

[01:07:59] Here [01:08:00] are our expectations

[01:08:00] James: our expectations.

[01:08:02] Either you weed them out, or we will be torching a lot of people at the end versus the, like, handful. Or, you know. Who knows, I, you know, I would really like to know though, who came up with the, because it’s just so unnecessary.

[01:08:28] Ka-Ce: All right, chapter 11. So it seems that the big ball hanging thing is Tynan’s downfall, whereas the chimney continues to taunt Violet. Presentation is the next day, and Violet still doesn’t know what to do. It’s not like she can poison the course. No, could you imagine? She just poisons everybody.

[01:08:48] Nobody can do the gauntlet.

[01:08:49] James: I mean.

[01:08:53] Ka-Ce: If she runs to the scribes, it has to be that night, but if she goes, if she hides, she’ll never know if she was good enough and doesn’t know if she could live with herself. Thank Dunne she doesn’t run, because then we really wouldn’t have had a story. Otherwise, yeah, we wouldn’t have gotten gauntlet and presentation.

[01:09:10] Some of the second and third years wish them luck, while the squads file out near the gauntlet. Dain keeps pleading over and over with Violet to change her mind, to run to the scribes. He tells her he doesn’t know if he can watch, as in, watch her fall the, fail the gauntlet and die. Way to support your BFF.

[01:09:28] Violet finally snaps and tells him to close his eyes. An hour later, Violet is racing up the gauntlet, she’s at the chimney, her nemesis. She runs back, and grabs a rope, and positions it. She uses it to help her climb the chimney. And someone overhead snaps, can she do that? Bitch, she just did. Her last hurdle is the ramp.

[01:09:51] The other thing that she has not been able to train on for the past two and a half weeks. Violet unsheathes her largest dagger she brought with her from home. [01:10:00] She runs up the ramp, and just as gravity starts to take her, she slams the dagger into the ramp, using the momentum, and hauls herself up.

[01:10:08] Once up there, she turns back, leans over, and grabs her dagger. She faces her friends, and she’s embraced by Rhiannon and Ridoc. Amber Mavis, Dain’s special friend from his first year, is shouting, She can’t do that, and accuses Violet of cheating. Amber claims that Violet used foreign materials twice, and it’s not allowed to Xaden. Garrick gets in between Amber and Xaden, not liking that she’s accusing someone in his section, a cheater, and that Xaden will handle anyone of rule breaking in his wing. Again, that word handle, Xaden turns to violet and she defends herself. She expects the 30 second penalty for using the rope on the chimney, then quoting the codex.

[01:10:52] Basically saying anything a rider brings with them across the parapet is considered to be part of their person. Her dagger was brought with her, not one on the mat. Xaden’s eyes flare, and a hint of a smirk on his mouth. Violet finishes telling him, The right way isn’t the only way. And Amber is pissed.

[01:11:13] She doesn’t like that Violet is quoting the Codex to her, because she, like Dain, is obsessed with the Codex. She tells Violet that she thinks like a scribe. And she storms off. Xaden tells Violet she’s leaking, and to take care of it. So, Rhiannon and Vi step aside and help bandage her up. And good news, everyone in Violet’s squad makes it.

[01:11:40] James: You know, it, uh, As I was just saying about the rules and the technicalities, like, sometimes you just, you gotta know, Exactly where the rules end and the technicalities can begin. Because then you can use that to your advantage. And, I feel like this [01:12:00] is like the moment where, where Xaden is looking at Violet and he’s like,

[01:12:04] Ka-Ce: Hot

[01:12:05] James: I want her.

[01:12:06] Like, no longer, he’s no longer like, I wanna kill her. He’s like, I wanna, I wanna have her. Because he put a challenge to her, and, you know, she rose to that challenge.

[01:12:22] Ka-Ce: Yeah, she did. Down at the last minute, too. And she didn’t know if any of this was gonna work. She didn’t get a chance to try, you know, using the rope in the chimney. She didn’t get to try the ramp at any point. I would not have thought to use a dagger to haul myself up the ramp.

[01:12:41] James: And you know, that, I would, I would even say that that actually really worked to her advantage. Because guaranteed, if she had tried any of these things, either of these things, during the training, somebody would have said, oh no, you can’t do that.

[01:12:56] Ka-Ce: That’s

[01:12:56] James: then during the final one, she would have been out of luck.

[01:12:59] But because she used it at the very end, there, you know, there was no chance of a redo because this was the test. And she hadn’t done it before. And she said, I’ll take the penalty for the rope.

[01:13:13] Ka-Ce: Mm

[01:13:14] James: And the whole dagger thing, codex, you can’t argue it. But it, I think it only worked because she didn’t show anybody.

[01:13:22] I mean, obviously she didn’t have that idea beforehand.

[01:13:25] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:13:26] James: she had tried that on one of the trial runs, I think they would have shut it down. And then she would have been stuck.

[01:13:33] Ka-Ce: I also think adrenaline, too. The day of, you know, it’s this timed event. You either make it or you die. She doesn’t know if it’s gonna work, so she has that adrenaline rush behind her. It’s a do or die situation. And you either You either fail and die, or you use that adrenaline to boost [01:14:00] you and to get what you need.

[01:14:01] James: I mean, she had one shot.

[01:14:02] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:14:05] James: Because I feel like if she had tried the dagger and had missed and not gotten it in all the way, or And she slid back down the ramp, she would have slid right off the gauntlet, like

[01:14:16] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:14:16] James: And then the book’s over. Um

[01:14:21] Ka-Ce: think, I think I can speak for all of us when I say I, especially my first read, my very, very first read of Fourth Wing, I was so annoyed and pissed with Dain at this point. Your best friend is about to run the gauntlet for presentation

[01:14:39] and instead of

[01:14:40] boosting your best friend

[01:14:41] up

[01:14:42] you’re sitting there going, please, please, please let me sneak you to the scribe quadrant right now. I feel like if you are their best friend, you air your concerns at first, yes, but then you support your friend. And especially as a squad leader, you should be giving them pointers and help them train. And I know we’ve already discussed this, but, you know, Xaden challenged her more, got her thinking. Whereas Dain was only putting the fear of this into her and trying to give her a safer, uh, coward’s way out.

[01:15:23] James: But yea I mean

[01:15:26] Ka-Ce: dammit Dain.

[01:15:27] James: Its still hard to be mad at

[01:15:29] him.

[01:15:30] because he’s still looking at her Envisioning the frail girl that he knew from before. Scribe Violet would never have

[01:15:44] Attempted to do this, right? Um, although it does say that when they were growing up, they would climb trees and stuff together. So, you know, you don’t climb trees because you’re afraid of them. So she’s, she must have had some sort of adventurous spirit. Um, but again, [01:16:00] how many of his friends did he, did he lose during the gauntlet himself, personally?

[01:16:05] You know, I mean, we, we don’t know that information. And if he’s looking at it and thinking he’s going to lose another friend, particularly a friend that he didn’t think was even going to be there, that’s a lot for him to handle. I mean, so I get it on the one hand, but on the other hand, once you realize, you know, she’s here, she’s going for it, then yeah, you need to be like, look, I don’t agree with the way that you’re doing this because I still think it’s the wrong decision.

[01:16:38] But if you are intent on staying here, then fine, we’re gonna train, we’re gonna do things to get you prepared for this, so that you at least have a fighting chance, instead of whining about it and being like, you need to leave, you need to leave, like, the first couple days, no problem. But she said, like, contingencies, man.

[01:17:03] Ka-Ce: But, and also, for being such a rule follower and codex stickler, his wing leader told him, commanded him, stop coddling her and train her, and he hasn’t. He’s like, he’s basically going against a direct order.

[01:17:24] James: Yeah.

[01:17:26] Ka-Ce: Come on, Dain. Come on, don’t let us down.

[01:17:32] James: Yeah.

[01:17:34] Um, yeah, like I said, I get it, but I did, I did enjoy the fact that she used Xaden’s words against him. I think that Xaden liked that she used his words against him. I think he was not anticipating enjoying that so much. He’s like, hot damn, she actually listened and she’s got a mouth on her. [01:18:00] All right.

[01:18:02] Ka-Ce: Surprise, surprise!

[01:18:05] James: chapter 12. Vi’s squad placed 11 out of 36 squads for Presentation. And Presentation is a piss inducing parade of cadets before the dragons that are willing to bond this year. The fastest up the gauntlet was Liam Mairi, and Violet is Just happy that she didn’t come in last.

[01:18:33] Ka-Ce: Same girl.

[01:18:34] James: Right.

[01:18:35] mean, you’re just happy you can get up there, right? And,

[01:18:38] the dragons average about 25 feet tall, which is about the height of a two story house in the U. S. But you also have to remember that height is Also with width like so It’s not like they’re tall and spindly dragons for every foot of height.

[01:18:56] You’ve got to add Muscle and diameter around so

[01:19:01] They line up single file spaced about seven feet seven feet apart so that If one of them gets scorched, they don’t all get scorched. They are not to approach the dragons. They don’t make eye contact with the dragons, but if a dragon decides to show off their tails or something, they can look. But no eye contact.

[01:19:23] Luca asks if there is really a feathertail in the lineup, as she overheard there was, and Garrick is just annoyed with her. he tells them all to relax. Feathertails don’t bond. It’s probably just there because it’s curious. They are advised to talk to each other during their walk. It helps the dragons get a sense of who you are and how well you get along with everyone else.

[01:19:47] Tynan, who is ahead of Violet, continues to be an ass. Violet converses with Rhi, who is behind her. Behind her, asking her about her family, if she’s hoping for a nephew or a niece. [01:20:00] Rhi asks Vi why she didn’t tell her about her plan on the gauntlet.

[01:20:05] She would have helped her. Vi didn’t want to implicate her in case she failed. Rhi has a real shot at a career here. They end up promising each other that if they need help, and if it’s something they can give, they will ask for it. At the end of the dragon lineup is a small golden dragon, the Feathertail. Both Tynan and Luca are immediately assholes about the feathertail, which is Why would you do this in front of the dragons? They tell Vi that she should bond with the feathertail since they’re both small and freakishly weak. this is coming from a guy who couldn’t get across the buoy balls. Sawyer lunges for Tynan grabs his collar. Trina steps in, putting a hand on Sawyer, reminding him not to make a mistake in front of the dragons.

[01:20:58] Tynan, ever the asshole, says that someone should kill the feathertail before it bonds. It’s just going to get its rider killed. And, yeah, amazing that he wasn’t torched on the spot for this, for insulting the dragons. Like

[01:21:13] Ka-Ce: I was so surprised. They’re all Him especially, but him and Luca were just going on and on about the feathertail. They’re disrespecting the feathertail, one of their own, and not one dragon step forward. And was like, you’re gone.

[01:21:29] James: Yeah. Pryor suggests that they go, but they can stay if they want to. Tynan shoves past him, telling him to make up his mind for once in his life. Luca continues to insult the dragons on their way back, like dumb freaking, like, what the hell? Violet tries to diffuse the situation by saying it could be worse.

[01:21:51] They could be walking past wyverns. Rhi and Vi share Wyvern and venin stories from their [01:22:00] youth. Violet tells of the time that she thought her mom was a venin because of her bloodshot eyes, and her mom took her fables book from her for a month. Luca, um, chalks it up to border village nonsense. Rhi tells Pryor to pick up the pace.

[01:22:18] He asks if they should take their time, then asks that they could speed up if they want. A red dragon steps forward and roasts him. Sawyer shouts at them to keep walking. Luca complains about the smell of Pryor. Two green dragons step out of line and approach Violet, sniffing her bleeding hand and her armor.

[01:22:40] Violet tells them that she cut her hand climbing the course, and then realizes that they smell

[01:22:45] Teine on her and explains that her sister used Teine’s, uh, shedded scales to make her vest. She goes on to tell them only Mira and Teine know about it and it saved her life more than once. They retreat back into line. Rhi approaches her to make sure she’s alright. Violet confides in her that she has dragon scale armor from her sister and they smelled Teine on her.

[01:23:08] They resume walking, Ridoc admitting he nearly shit himself when the dragons approached Violet. Luca remarks that she thought they were going to eat her and she wouldn’t have blamed them. She is the weakest link after Pryor. On and on she goes until Vi feels heat singing her back. Ridoc confirms that Luca has been taken out.

[01:23:32] Their squad is down to six first years.

[01:23:37] Ka-Ce: Again, so Luca and Pryor, they’re toast, but why is Tynan still walking, still living when he was just going on and on about the feathertail? And when you come to learn later what the feathertails are, you would think that the dragons would have been more pissed at the disrespect.

[01:23:59] James: I, right, [01:24:00] like I was, okay so At first, I was surprised that Pryor was taken out, but then I thought, no, he was showing weakness in front of the dragons because he couldn’t make a damn decision, and no dragon is going to want to bond. This is the thing that I don’t quite understand is what makes the dragons choose between letting them and not bonding, and deciding to toast them right on the spot.

[01:24:26] So unless the dragon looked at Pryor and said, If this guy manages to bond with a dragon at some point, it’s going to get that dragon killed. So, so he has to be eliminated because he is just a liability to any dragon if he makes it past this stage, right?

[01:24:45] Ka-Ce: But again

[01:24:45] James: I could

[01:24:46] Ka-Ce: They could have also let him live, and none of the dragons would have bonded him. And then he would have had to, you know, continue his year like Sawyer did the previous year, and then the following year he either could have tried again in the Writers Quadrant, or he could have joined another quadrant.

[01:25:04] James: Right, like what was the difference between, like Sawyer clearly did this, but he didn’t bond because apparently he wasn’t found to be worthy of a bond, but he wasn’t so unworthy that he got toasted.

[01:25:21] Ka-Ce: I think just that whole indecisiveness

[01:25:23] was just too much for the dragons because They’re gonna see battle, you know, they’re deployed right after graduation to man all the borders and everything and your indecisiveness is going to cost the lives of fellow riders, fellow civilians and stuff,

[01:25:41] James: Yeah, I mean, I guess, yeah, if in some world Pryor did make it all the way out there, I could see him second guessing, and on the back of a dragon, that’s life or death between a comrade or you, and, you know.

[01:25:55] Ka-Ce: And I think letting him live and him going into, like, Infantry or [01:26:00] the Healer’s Quadrant and he’s still second guessing himself on that, lives are still gonna be at

[01:26:06] James: Yeah,

[01:26:07] Ka-Ce: Um, even in the Scribe Quadrant, where you’re not seeing action unless you’re out on the field, questioning whether you should notate something or not, yeah, like, in any quadrant, that is just gonna be such a huge liability.

[01:26:28] James: So he was the first one, and then I was, honestly, I was hoping that they were going to take Luca out.

[01:26:33] Ka-Ce: Oh yeah,

[01:26:34] James: Because she was just, she was something else. I mean,

[01:26:41] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:26:41] James: of, she was one of the two saying that the, the, the feathertail should just be killed, and then suggesting And it almost felt like she was trying to sabotage, uh, Violet’s reputation in front of the dragons in the hopes that they would take her out.

[01:26:57] Like, by saying, oh yeah, like, this one here, she’s also weak, so she should be bonded with the weak dragon. Because, you know, we’re talking about weeding out the weak. We don’t need the weak, and she’s so weak, and

[01:27:11] Ka-Ce: I think that hurt Luca in the end. Her continually trying to out a fellow cadet.

[01:27:20] James: was sabotage, and the

[01:27:22] Ka-Ce: and you don’t do that when you’re out riding together or, you know, defending an outpost together or whatever. Again, it’s another liability. But I also think it helped Violet by talking about, like, the Wyvern and the venin as stories and stuff with

[01:27:42] James: uh, mm.

[01:27:44] Ka-Ce: And then also her having the dragon scale armor from Mira. So even though she’s the weakest and maybe some of the dragons were looking at Violet, she’s shorter, she’s smaller and everything. But she has knowledge that the others don’t, whether [01:28:00] she knows it or not. Maybe they’re just bedtime stories, but she knows about these things.

[01:28:05] And she has this dragon scale armor from her sister. She’s worth something.

[01:28:12] James: And she’s also, um, she’s also somebody that values the camaraderie of her, of her squadmates, you know. Even though they don’t know each other all that well yet. I think the dragons look at that, and they look at how well you interact with the people that you are eventually going to be, you know, entrusting your life to. And,

[01:28:38] Ka-Ce: we see her constantly, like, trying to defuse the situation with Tynan and Luca. She’s jumping to the defense of the feathertail, you know, right away, there’s no hesitation. And, yeah, she’s just showing the strength of her character versus Tynan and Luca. But still, why didn’t they take Tynan out? That just, hmm.

[01:29:04] James: But see, there’s a lot of people, as you get through the story later, where you say, how the hell did that one bond with a dragon? Because they are a sadistic, like, piece of work.

[01:29:14] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:29:14] James: I mean, some of the commanding people, and some of the, I mean,

[01:29:19] Barlowe and a lot of these where you think that they would be such a huge liability.

[01:29:25] So it’s, it’s, who, who knows what the, uh, the criteria is for how the dragons judge you? Because some of those people, they let through and you’re like, huh?

[01:29:34] Maybe they looked at it and they saw that Tynan is not so much of a rebellious leader as much as he is a follower. And Luca was more of an instigator. Like, if she wasn’t there, maybe Tynan wouldn’t have said anything. You know what I mean? How there’s always that kid who’s like, the one starts mouthing off and there’s the other one who’s like, uh, yeah, yeah, yeah, ha ha ha ha, but when that other one’s not [01:30:00] there, they’re very quiet and usually actually very, like, pleasant to be around. Falling in with the wrong crowd, you know?

[01:30:09] Ka-Ce: True. Maybe they decided to leave Tynan and were discussing within their own dragon, you know, community, like, Watch out for this one. Nobody bond this one, but he’s not worth toasting.

[01:30:21] James: Yeah, let’s see what happens and how it goes cuz uh,

[01:30:27] Ka-Ce: Yeah. Speaking of the armor, I feel like, why don’t more dragon riders have this dragon scaled armor? Since we learned that the dragons shed their scales.

[01:30:37] Mira had mentioned to her sister that she was going to speak to the higher ups to see about making more of this armor for the riders.

[01:30:47] James: yeah,

[01:30:48] Ka-Ce: nothing ever comes through with that.

[01:30:50] James: which is really surprising because you would think they would look at that and say all of our all of our riders can have impenetrable armor

[01:30:59] Ka-Ce: would help against Dragonfire.

[01:31:01] James: it would help again I mean

[01:31:03] Ka-Ce: I mean, I know that they’re not like, blasting each other, but there is war games and stuff that the cadets have to go through and

[01:31:09] James: yeah but I think the dragon fire is so big that it envelops your whole body so

[01:31:15] Ka-Ce: It would

[01:31:15] James: Your torso would be fine, but everything else would be gone.

[01:31:20] Ka-Ce: I mean, they could have done it like, um, Hiccup’s style. He made armor and helmets with, like, the

[01:31:27] James: I guess that’s true. Yeah, it seems, I mean,

[01:31:31] Ka-Ce: Unless it’s just maneuverability, because they do have to run up

[01:31:35] James: that could be. I mean, linking it together and running. I don’t know. But they could at least have a

[01:31:41] Ka-Ce: At least the, yeah.

[01:31:43] James: Violet with daggers and, and all kinds of stuff so far. Like,

[01:31:48] Ka-Ce: Exactly. They could have made like little, um, what are they?

[01:31:51] James: yeah, the bracers. I mean, yeah, like chest

[01:31:54] Ka-Ce: Like you tie it on. But

[01:31:56] James: For the legs, you know? Yeah, they could have done[01:32:00]

[01:32:00] Ka-Ce: it would’ve helped so much with like the hand-to-hand combat, you know, for those that are out on the borders and

[01:32:06] James: There had to be an active choice where they looked at it and said, Yeah, we’re not gonna do that. We need, uh

[01:32:11] Ka-Ce: I mean, I can also understand if there’s not enough wielders who can size things down and make things bigger, that might not be a common signet.

[01:32:21] James: That’s true. If it’s like, one person.

[01:32:24] Ka-Ce: But you think, still, over, it’s what, 600 years that they’ve had dragon riders and stuff, they would have figured something out. And it’s

[01:32:32] James: And it’s not like the dragon scales are gonna, like, go bad.

[01:32:35] They could have been collecting them for, yeah, like, years upon years and been like

[01:32:41] every chance we get, we’ll just make some, we’ll just make them and shrink them and, or collect them and shrink them and collect them and shrink them and have a storehouse of it and they just sit there until, I, yeah, it’s kind of a head scratcher, like, it seems like something that would be so obvious and you would be like, yes, this will help protect our riders and save lives, and they’re like, well, save lives?

[01:33:03] That’s not what we’re in the business of doing.

[01:33:07] Ka-Ce: That makes riders weak!

[01:33:08] James: Screw them!

[01:33:09] Ka-Ce: lord. Yeah.

[01:33:12] James: I,

[01:33:13] Ka-Ce: Plot armor.

[01:33:14] James: yeah, but, um, yeah, it’s a little irritating, but you know, who knows why the higher ups do what the higher ups do.

[01:33:25] Ka-Ce: That is true.

[01:33:26] James: I am current climate. What, all right. As we wrap up today’s episode on our fourth wing. I almost said the wrong book. Just, uh, a reminder that next Thursday, we will be going through chapters 13 18 of Fourth Wing, getting deeper into the story, and it’s a non stop ride, so definitely read to at least [01:34:00] 18 and farther if you can. because you’ll You’re just gonna learn stuff along the way. On Tuesday, we will be going through chapters 8 through 14 of Crown of Midnight on the Throne of Glass series.

[01:34:14] And, if you had caught the episode from a couple days ago, you know that things are already off to a running start with, with that one. all of our characters are just having their own little mini crisises everywhere, so. If you have thoughts, theories, or ideas, let us know in the comments. You can send us an email directly to hello at bookscatsandchaos. com You can comment on the episode entries on our website. You can leave a comment on the YouTube channel. Or you can interact on any of our social medias. We can be reached in multiple ways. And thank you so much for listening, joining us again this week, and as we continue to just go through as much of this as we can, since we’ve got multiple, multiple books now that we’re doing, and trying to bring you guys as much listening entertainment as possible.

[01:35:24] Ka-Ce: And if you like what you hear so far, please share with your friends and family. the more the merrier. As we head out, please don’t forget to give some love and support to our friends over at K911 ResQ. K 9 1 1 R E S Q Uh, visit them on their website and on social media. TikTok, Instagram, Facebook.

[01:35:44] They try to help as many, you know, handicapped and senior animals as possible. They are always looking for foster parents and volunteers and donations are always, always needed. So please again, check them out. [01:36:00] You can also check out the Pasadena Humane Society. They have been working around the clock, rescuing, treating, and trying to reunite animals.

[01:36:07] From the LA fires. So we will drop both their links in our show notes. and I try to share as much as I can, on our stories, you know, like on Instagram, so you can follow them there as well.

[01:36:21] James: Yep.

[01:36:23] Ka-Ce: happy reading and we will see you again next week. Cadets.

[01:36:27] James: See you next time.