Ep 1: Throne of Glass Ch. 1 – 6

[00:00:21] Ka-Ce: Hello and welcome to Books, Cats, and Chaos. I’m Ka-Ce

[00:00:27] James: And I am James.

[00:00:30] Ka-Ce: and we are a husband and wife team and today we will be discussing chapters one through six of Throne of Glass by Sarah J. Maas. This is the first book in the Throne of Glass series and this is James’s first time reading the series so we will not be discussing any spoilers from the rest of the books in the series.

[00:00:51] There will not be any spoilers or crossover discussions from ACOTAR or Crescent City series. So if you haven’t read those [00:01:00] books and you’re planning to, don’t worry, this is a spoiler free zone.

[00:01:06] James: We’re going to try anyway,

[00:01:09] Ka-Ce: I I’m trying my hardest to keep all spoilers away from James. I don’t want to spoil anything for him through the Throne of Glass adventure. So

[00:01:20] James: not including all the Instagram and Tik TOK memes that get sent my way going, you’ll get this later. You’ll get it later. Is that

[00:01:28] Ka-Ce: be fair, I have folders that I have saved to show you like once you get through certain books just so you can enjoy those TikToks and Instagram memes with me. I would like to say, I would like to make a correction. I think on our intro episode, I said that there were seven books in the Throne of Glass series.

[00:01:48] There are actually eight. I miscounted the books behind me. Cause I’m missing some off the shelf. So the series,

[00:01:56] James: eight because of the novella or, [00:02:00] Oh, okay.

[00:02:01] Ka-Ce: yeah. So it is eight total.

[00:02:03] James: Eight total. Okay, got it. Okay, great. And just, we want to do a content reminder. This podcast is generally going to be for mature audiences. Just because, you know, we’re adults and sometimes if we get it too excitable we might use not kid friendly language. As a general rule, probably not a whole lot of it just because, but, Just putting that out there so that you know that there’s an expectation that it may happen.

[00:02:35] Ka-Ce: So beware those little listening ears. You might want to save this for later. All right. Are you ready?

[00:02:43] James: Yeah, I think I’m ready.

[00:02:45] Ka-Ce: All right, so let’s jump in. We are going to review all six chapters before we dive into each one specifically. So, Celaena Sardothien, once Adarlan’s most feared assassin, has been imprisoned in the brutal salt mines of [00:03:00] Endovier for over a year. Her life takes a turn when Captain Chaol Westfall arrives with a mysterious offer, an opportunity to win her freedom.

[00:03:09] But first, she must compete in a deadly contest to become the king’s champion. Celaena is brought to meet Crown Prince Dorian, who reveals the competition. Assassins, warriors, and thieves will battle for the title, and the winner will serve the king for several years before gaining freedom. Over the next few chapters, Celaena prepares for this new chapter in her life, traveling with Dorian and Chaol to the glass castle of Rifthold.

[00:03:37] As they journey, Celaena’s sharp wit and unrelenting spirit begin to show, hinting at the fierce competition that lies ahead.

[00:03:46] James: The first six chapters, they’re actually pretty good. They no, they do. They set the, they set a good tone for the story

[00:03:54] Ka-Ce: I’m glad you think so. I thought so too. I know some people think it’s a [00:04:00] little slower paced. But I think it sets up the world and it sets up the competition and it allows you to get to know the characters.

[00:04:07] James: Without giving away any spoilers because I am, I’m currently on Heir of Fire, but I feel like That book Is slower than this, the first one. Yeah yeah, I don’t want to say anything with that because we’re not, you know, we’re not in that, but just book one, what is to me very evenly paced. And I liked the introductions and I liked the characters and I liked the interactions and I liked how the story unfolded and how you, you know, Like discovered things and then some of the mysteries and, you know, all this other stuff.

[00:04:48] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:04:50] James: because, you know, I wasn’t sure I was even going to like it when I first started reading it, but it did, it, it really did grab me. So yeah, that was good. It was just my side [00:05:00] thought, like,

[00:05:01] Ka-Ce: Okay. Oh, no, that’s good. That’s good. All right. So with that, we are going to Dive into chapter one a little bit, and we’re going to have a couple discussion points, Q& A sort of thing. So chapter one, Celaena Sardothien, she is our female main character, our FMC, once the notorious assassin in Adarlan, and she spent a year as a slave in the salt mines of Endovier.

[00:05:27] She’s being escorted by a mysterious hooded man, Captain Chaol Westfall, and a group of heavily armed guards through the fortress like interior of Endovier. Despite the guard’s efforts to disorient her, Celaena remains sharp and aware using her assassin’s training to note possible escape routes. Though malnourished and worn from her time in the mines, she still exhibits a fierce spirit and calculated confidence.

[00:05:53] As they approach their destination, Celaena wonders what awaits her and begins to suspect she might finally face her [00:06:00] execution. That’s a lot for chapter one, and I feel like Her chapters are pretty, yeah, and I feel like her chapters are pretty short chapters. They’re not really Long, you know, like 20, 30 page chapters, like some fantasy novels are.

[00:06:18] These are pretty short chapters, but I feel like each chapter is jam packed with stuff. So yeah, to me, that was like a lot in the first chapter and it really kind of set you up like, Oh my God, what is happening? What’s going on? Like, what is going to happen to this FMC?

[00:06:38] James: yeah, you know, it’s obviously when you’re a reader and you’re reading these books and the, and they set them up, you know, you know, who the characters. pretty quickly, you figure out who usually is a main character, right? Obviously we know that she is the main character because it’s clearly the book is built around her.

[00:06:58] So, you know, in chapter one, [00:07:00] she’s not going to get executed, like, You know, as the reader, you know that, right? So it trying to get yourself into the mindset of her point of view, the character’s point of view, because even though you know, girl, you’re going to be fine ish she doesn’t know she’s going to be fine ish, right?

[00:07:20] Ka-Ce: Yeah. Right.

[00:07:23] James: That it was a good portrayal of the character to show that even though she was this very strong, very proud, very resilient, you know, assassin she still is like, Oh sh*t is is it time now? Like, you know, Am I meeting my end? Because I am an assassin who has killed a lot of people and, you know, to her, it’s a very logical end kind of, like, why did they not do it right away?

[00:07:57] Obviously, they, I mean, they, she worked in the [00:08:00] mines for, you know, a year So, so she probably was questioning that a bit, like, why didn’t they just kill me right away versus slave labor? But I felt that she did a good job of portraying Celaena’s what I want to say her unknowing, you know, what was going to happen her unease and her kind of, she, the character Celaena would never admit it, but her fear of the future, you know, because she’s a character who doesn’t like to show fear.

[00:08:33] Ka-Ce: Yes. And with that, I mean, how does Celaena’s internal mantra, I will not be afraid reflect her survival strategy? And even her mental fortitude, you know, how might this shape her choices going forward? She’s clearly afraid, but she is trying not to show it. She doesn’t know what’s happening. She [00:09:00] was, you know, taken from the mines.

[00:09:03] Bag thrown over her head, guards are trying to disorient her, you know, but she’s repeating this mantra, I will not be afraid. So yeah, like how do you think that all,

[00:09:17] James: Yeah, you know, it’s, I like to try and figure out the character you know, how it is that they think about things. Right. And so she has this, like you said, this mantra of, I will not be afraid. And I kind of think about it, like she’s conditioned herself to one, to not show that she’s afraid. And two, to kind of not admit to herself that she’s afraid even if she is, which we actually kind of get a little glimpse of that you know, as the chapter goes on because if you think about it, who’s going to be afraid of an [00:10:00] assassin?

[00:10:00] That shows that she’s afraid of anything, you know, like she’s not afraid to kill people. She’s an assassin, right? But she as an assassin has to be willing to go into situations where she knows that she may die and she can’t show any kind of fear like that. And so you can’t do that and admit to yourself that you have a fear.

[00:10:24] of literally anything. So, so it’s a conditioning that she tells herself, I will not be afraid, but it also shows that she’s not yet gotten to the point where she’s so callous that it’s like she has to remind herself, like, you know what I mean? Some characters go through and you just look at them and you’re like, Oh yeah he’s not afraid of anything.

[00:10:46] He doesn’t show emotion, period.

[00:10:48] Ka-Ce: yeah,

[00:10:48] James: She has to still kind of actively remind herself, like, I’m not going to show fear. I’m not going to be afraid. And she can talk herself into that, but. She [00:11:00] still has to work at it.

[00:11:01] Ka-Ce: Yeah. I think too, just having. been a slave for a year , too, that’s gonna affect just, you know, your way of thinking and the way you’re going to view and see the world because it is a traumatic thing. You had the freedom. You were an assassin. You can go anywhere, do anything. You are free. And now suddenly, You are bound and chained day and night and that, you know, is just like, I couldn’t even imagine, like,

[00:11:40] James: mean, it didn’t stop her from acting out and creating problems.

[00:11:46] Ka-Ce: that is true. So, I mean, even like, despite being shackled and everything, Celaena is constantly finding ways to rebel you know, like she’s silently mocking this Captain Chaol Westfall [00:12:00] despite his intimidation attempts so, I mean, I To me, this shows that despite being a slave, and despite them trying to break her spirit and everything for a year, she refuses to be broken.

[00:12:14] And, she refuses to give up. She is still strong. She is still fighting. But, speaking of Captain Chaol Westfall, what are your kind of first impressions of him?

[00:12:29] James: I mean, so when they first introduced him I mean, initially my thought was, Oh, okay. So this is another main character. He’s kind of a dick, like, because that’s the way he’s acting. Right. Okay. And at the same time, I’m sitting there going, well, he’s a soldier. I mean, we know he’s a soldier before we know he’s a soldier.

[00:12:50] Right?

[00:12:51] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:12:53] James: and we know before she knows any, you know, any of that but the way he treats her very callous, very, [00:13:00] you know, but then, you know, from his perspective, you think, well, he has to, because she is a renowned assassin that would probably gut all of them. Yeah. Given, you know, the slightest minute, you know, 30 seconds.

[00:13:16] And he knows that, and he also, he knows the story, right? Of her, he knows her reputation. But he is surprised how, what, how small she is and how young she is. Right. Cause the the reputation far precedes the person. And so I remember him being a little surprised by that. Like, okay, but don’t let your guard down because she is still an assassin.

[00:13:45] So he’s smart to keep her, you know, by not by not engaging with her. It’s a way to keep her, you know, at bay. Because you don’t let your guard down, you know, kind of [00:14:00] thing. So, so in the beginning, like I said, he, he comes off as a dick, but he also comes off as a very capable before we even know that he’s like, you know, how high he is in the chain.

[00:14:15] You’re like, Oh, this is a soldier who knows the game.

[00:14:18] He’s smart, he’s capable he’s not going to make a stupid mistake and be like, you know, Yeah, you can walk next to me. Like,

[00:14:26] Ka-Ce: yeah. He knows his job. He knows what he has to do and securing a prisoner and everything.

[00:14:33] James: I do warm up to his character fairly quickly though. No I do. I like his character. I know I’m setting myself up for a bunch of, like, people who disagree with with

[00:14:45] Ka-Ce: but that’s the extent of your knowledge, which everybody makes their own judgment about each of the characters throughout this series. All right. Chapter two, you want to read? Bring us into chapter two.

[00:14:59] James: Chapter [00:15:00] two. So, Celaena is brought before Crown Prince, Dorian I don’t even know how to say half these words. Havilliard.

[00:15:09] Ka-Ce: Havilliard,

[00:15:09] James: Havilliard??

[00:15:11] Ka-Ce: believe

[00:15:11] James: Uh,

[00:15:11] Ka-Ce: pronunciation in the audiobooks.

[00:15:15] in a grand

[00:15:16] James: and opulent throne room, a stark contrast to the desolation of Endovier. Despite her filthy appearance and shackles, Celaena’s pride and defiance remain intact, refusing to bow before the prince.

[00:15:29] When the Duke of Perrington assaults her for not bowing, Dorian steps in, casually dismissing the Duke’s cruelty. The interaction establishes an interesting power dynamic between the two men. As Celaena regains her composure, Dorian acknowledges her infamous reputation, setting the stage for a pivotal proposition.

[00:15:51] The tone shifts as Celaena realizes she’s not here to be executed, which we knew, but is instead being offered a choice, [00:16:00] which we did not know. And, so, we’ve already kind of seen this with her interaction with Chaol, now we have her being defiant to Dorian as well which is pretty ballsy considering that, you know, he’s the prince you know, I mean, at this point, Well, I think at this point, she’s still not completely convinced that she’s not being executed like

[00:16:37] Ka-Ce: I, yeah, she doesn’t know yet. I think her refusal to bow to the Crown Prince was that if these were her last moments alive, she refused to bow before anybody.

[00:16:51] James: right. Yeah. She’s going out on her terms. Like

[00:16:58] Ka-Ce: Exactly.

[00:16:59] James: screw the [00:17:00] establishment. Screw you.

[00:17:03] Ka-Ce: Yes so yeah, so I she doesn’t know what’s going on yet. She just knows that suddenly she’s in this throne room, she’s in front of the prince. She refuses to bow and then, and we have a new character enter the scene, Duke Perrington, who grabs her and throws her to the floor and says, this is how you, .

[00:17:25] greet the prince. And I don’t know, I just, even just that interaction already tells me what kind of person Duke Perrington is.

[00:17:37] James: Yeah,

[00:17:37] Ka-Ce: a bully.

[00:17:39] James: did they ever describe how he looks

[00:17:43] Ka-Ce: They did. And

[00:17:46] James: because I have a very certain Visage of him in my mind that I think is different than the way that you look at him Or in the way that you envision him [00:18:00] based on the way he acts

[00:18:02] Ka-Ce: okay. I have always like, he’s not described this way, but I always pictured him as Duke Wesselton from Frozen. I, there’s something there, but I would have to open up my book, but I do remember that his eyes are described as obsidian and it’s, it, you know, eyes are not typically described as being obsidian. Dark brown.

[00:18:30] Hazel, green, blue, but yeah, you’ll get like a really dark brown, almost black, but you never get eyes that are obsidian.

[00:18:37] So to me that was noteworthy. And I,

[00:18:40] James: think His character to me, the way that I always think about him, I always think about him as this much like larger character that like kind of, like, like big overweight kind of, the kind of person that [00:19:00] you look at and they seem like they’re maybe like always a little sweaty because of the way that he, isn’t afraid to grab and just manhandle people.

[00:19:13] Like you have to have a certain kind of stature and strength in order to do that.

[00:19:18] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:19:20] James: and then just, I dunno, to me, he just seems like, like a much bigger, larger bodied person who is not afraid to like throw his weight around, but he’s also not an attractive person. And I can’t remember if they describe him like that in the book or not, but that is how I, in my brain, like, whenever that character comes up, I’m like, Oh, it’s the, like, you wouldn’t want to get into a fight with him because he could probably take you.

[00:19:51] You know what I mean? Like,

[00:19:53] Ka-Ce: Yeah. So I found it. So I’ll read part of the passage. So, thundering steps issued from behind [00:20:00] her and someone grabbed her by the neck. Celaena only glimpsed crimson cheeks and a sandy mustache before being thrown to the icy marble floor. That is the proper way to greet your future king, a red faced man snapped at Celaena. The assassin hissed, baring her teeth as she twisted her head to look at the kneeling bastard. He was almost as large as her overseer, clothed in reds and oranges that matched his thinning hair. His obsidian eyes glittered as his grip tightened on her neck.

[00:20:30] So From there, he has a sandy mustache, crimson cheeks, so I’m figuring somebody that’s paler in nature who will get flushed easily. He’s almost as large as her overseer, and he has thinning hair with black eyes. So, not a very attractive sounding man.

[00:20:51] James: No no. And I was actually, I just did a little search on Google here to see what sort of some other people.

[00:20:59] Ka-Ce: You [00:21:00] looking at fan

[00:21:00] James: it’s actually funny because some of the top pictures that came up were. Basically of how I envisioned him as a sweaty kind of red cheeked, red flushed face,

[00:21:13] Not, you know, very attractive, you know, kind of whatever.

[00:21:16] And then I scrolled down a little bit and somebody had made a Reddit thread and they put the picture of Duke Wesselton.

[00:21:23] Ka-Ce: Thank you. Thank you. I am not the only

[00:21:25] James: So, no, it’s your thought process behind that is valid because is kind of a wormy

[00:21:32] Who seems to not be a huge concern right away. But then, you know, that quickly changes when you start to get into it. But,

[00:21:46] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:21:47] James: he’s always one of those side characters, you know, that always has a little bit more sway than the Then you initially realize,

[00:21:55] Ka-Ce: Yeah so let’s see, so how do you think the [00:22:00] interaction between Dorian and Duke Perrington and even Celaena foreshadows the different kinds of power struggles that will come into play throughout the story?

[00:22:13] James: well, we know that Dorian doesn’t like Perrington, like that’s pretty evident right off the, you know, even though he is fairly non confrontational during this encounter, but he can’t afford to be because this is an assassin and he’s the prince and, you know, there’s a lot of politics that are going on in this whole situation from the get go.

[00:22:38] Right. But it does seem pretty evident that. That Perrington and Dorian are not friends. And you know, the Perrington’s behavior is pretty much that’s his character, right? I mean, he’s going to be like that to Celaena and probably anybody else that he [00:23:00] can throw his,

[00:23:01] Ka-Ce: gets in his way.

[00:23:01] James: yeah, he can throw his weight around, you know?

[00:23:04] I mean, he’s used to getting what he wants because he is a duke, like,

[00:23:10] Ka-Ce: Yeah. Yeah. I personally liked that Prince Dorian just shut him up and dismissed him. Like, don’t you go, don’t you have like treasury meetings or something that you need to go to? Like, just like, Go. Go. Get out of here. You’re not wanted here.

[00:23:31] James: well, yeah, it’s a, it was a very personal thing. It was a very non confrontational, polite way for Dorian to say, I’m tired of looking at you, like, don’t you have somewhere else to be? You know, F off. Like,

[00:23:44] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:23:45] James: but he can’t say that because he’s the prince but you could see it, you know?

[00:23:50] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:23:51] James: And I mean, really, if you thought about it, Perrington probably didn’t have to leave.

[00:23:58] Ka-Ce: He could have thrown his weight [00:24:00] around more. I think we don’t get that much of an interaction with him. Perrington at this point, but I think he knows how to pick his battles too, especially with an audience in front of the guards, in front of Chaol, especially in front of Celaena, the assassin, like, I know when to question the prince, and when to, you know,

[00:24:26] James: Well, and if it’s not in his best interest, like he’s at this particular moment, it’s not going to get him anything like he made his point. He showed if nothing else, he showed her who he was and that she should be afraid of him. Didn’t really work, you know,

[00:24:49] The first thing that she wants to do is kill him for, you know, touching her.

[00:24:54] Ka-Ce: Yeah. Her first immediate thing is, how can I wrap these chains around him? Yeah.

[00:24:58] James: Yeah, so, [00:25:00] you know, didn’t really work into his, but that was his goal was She needs to know who I am and I’m gonna throw my weight around a little bit. Okay. Yeah, you’re right. I got things to do. Okay. Later. Like,

[00:25:15] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:25:16] James: you know, he’s also, he’s a real dick. Not a perceived dick. Like, like we thought, Oh,

[00:25:23] Ka-Ce: Oh, we got a special visitor here. If you are watching us on YouTube that was our cat, Willow, making an entrance, sort of. So, talking about,

[00:25:36] James: frame.

[00:25:40] Ka-Ce: So, since we were talking about Dorian What was your first initial reaction to meeting Prince Dorian and what did you think of, like, his charming demeanor and his willingness to dismiss other sufferings? Do you think his charm is genuine? Do you think it’s part of his, like, [00:26:00] royal persona? Like, do you think he laid it on thick and heavy?

[00:26:05] James: Yeah. When we first meet Dorian very unsure of what to think of his character because,

[00:26:12] You know, it could go a number of ways.

[00:26:15] You know, he could be, like you said, he could be genuine. He could be putting on a show. You just at this point, you don’t know because of the way he’s, you know, treating her because he’s treating her with kind of a bit of indifference, like, you know, I got you out of there.

[00:26:35] You should be singing my eternal, you know, praises for getting you out of there. I’m so, you know, I’m so good and I’m so great and you’re welcome. And, you know, she ain’t about that. And You know, at this point it’s too early to, to really, if you had to make a character judgment call on him this exact moment I [00:27:00] personally would be leaning towards, I don’t know.

[00:27:02] I don’t think he’s, I don’t think he’s it like, you know what I mean?

[00:27:07] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:27:09] James: And I mean, it does, you still kind of have that feeling for a while.

[00:27:14] Ka-Ce: Okay.

[00:27:14] James: I did anyway, for at least the first couple of episodes. number of chapters.

[00:27:19] It was you know, he’s the prince, like he’s used to, to laying it on to get what he wants and

[00:27:27] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:27:28] James: to make people think, I mean, that’s the job of a prince is to make people that you talk to think

[00:27:35] That they are the most important thing right there.

[00:27:39] At that moment, Prince or any real politic, you know, whatever, they’re shaking your hand and they’re already looking at the person behind you because they are. Doing, you know, planning,

[00:27:55] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:27:56] James: my thing here, and then I gotta do my thing over here. And, [00:28:00] at this point, you know, she’s a slave, assassin, prisoner, what could he possibly want with her?

[00:28:06] Ka-Ce: We don’t know

[00:28:07] James: we don’t know what he wants with her, other than, he wants her to be thankful, and she’s kinda like, why?

[00:28:17] Ka-Ce: do not know how many ways I am planning on killing you if I, you know, make this worth my while. I have in my notes here, is Chaol a bitch? Dorian questions Chaol as to why Celaena wasn’t washed before their meeting. Because Chaol did literally drag her out of the mines dirty and, you know, everything.

[00:28:41] And Chaol didn’t want to keep the prince waiting. Do you think this was like a power play on Chaol’s part. Not a power play against the prince, but like a power play against Celaena, or do you think it is a power play against the

[00:28:57] James: think that he [00:29:00] doing that to keep her as uncomfortable as possible. Because again, without knowing the full range or really any range of her skills, you know, they’d only heard about them. They hadn’t seen them other than You know, the stuff that she did while she was in the mines, you know, killing the a couple of the guards and generally being a pain overall while she’s in her servitude, you know, servitude you know, I think Chaol was definitely just trying to be a pain in the ass to her.

[00:29:38] Ka-Ce: Okay,

[00:29:38] James: and I think he didn’t really care what Dorian did. Thought and basically, you know, it turned out the way like, Oh, Dorian says, you know, he couldn’t at least washer and it’s really easy for somebody like Chaol’s Chaol to sit there and go, well, you [00:30:00] wanted her right away. So

[00:30:02] Ka-Ce: here she is.

[00:30:03] James: this is your fault.

[00:30:04] You know what I mean? It’s a way to say, this is your fault without saying this is your fault. It was, I was trying to do my job quick as possible.

[00:30:14] Ka-Ce: yeah,

[00:30:15] James: He could have, but. Yeah. But also, that would have been a chance for her to try and escape,

[00:30:21] Ka-Ce: that’s true.

[00:30:22] James: I mean, so, logistically speaking, from a soldier point of view, he also may have been looking at it like, Yeah, I’m not gonna make her life any easier, and also, like, I ain’t risking nothing.

[00:30:38] Those chains ain’t coming off for nothing.

[00:30:40] Ka-Ce: Yeah,

[00:30:41] James: You know what I mean?

[00:30:43] Ka-Ce: that is true. Moving into that, you know, we do get a mention.

[00:30:52] In this chapter of Celaena being trained as an assassin since she was eight years old. Which is, you [00:31:00] know, quite a young age. We learned that she was found by the king of assassins when she was eight. So she, she’s had a lifetime of training. We learned that when she was 17, she was caught and sentenced to Endovier. And during her times in the mine You know, in her desperation to die, Celaena does snap, and she killed the overseer, and 23 centuries before, she was like, just a fingertip away from the wall, she was so close to escaping and any other prisoner, Before that, whenever they attempted to flee, they never got that far.

[00:31:41] They only made it a couple of feet before they were killed immediately. And the king ordered for her to be kept alive for as long as possible in these mines. Anybody else, if they try to escape, they’re dead. With her, he wanted her to be kept alive. And his reasoning is he wanted her [00:32:00] to endure the misery of Endovier.

[00:32:03] So do you think, again, another power play from the king? Is this just the king’s pride because Adarlan’s assassin was just a young girl at 17? Or Like, he could have killed her, he could have just sentenced her to death right away and been done with Adarlan’s Assassin, but instead he’s like, no, take her to the mines, if she tries to escape, if she tries anything, keep her alive.

[00:32:35] Like, beat her, do whatever, but she needs to be kept alive. Like,

[00:32:42] James: It’s hard because you know, now being farther along in the series, I have a more understanding of the bigger plan,

[00:32:52] You know, so at this point, it’s hard to know what the king is thinking. And I would say, you know, he really is doing a power play [00:33:00] because I think he is, he’s trying to break her.

[00:33:04] Because a, she, I mean, she is an assassin and a very good one at that, like one of the best. So I think that it definitely, the King looked at her or at least looked at her reputation. Right. And was like, if I can ever get my hands on her I need to knock her down.

[00:33:30] Because she’s going to be, you know, a hell on wheels but I can use her. He’s a king. And we already know at this point that he’s conquered a lot of other stuff. So he’s always going to be thinking about military strategic pawns, people that he can, you know, wrangle into his service through. Something, right? Whether it’s threats of family or gold or freedom, you know, he’s a [00:34:00] king and he’s a warrior king and that’s what they do, you know, so I think he really was trying to break her and it didn’t work, but if nothing else, it did get her out of commission. Because even though she did kill her sentry overseer and or, and the other sentries, right. To me, the guards and people that, that are in charge of things like the mines and stuff, they’re not the ones that you put into the important things. Like, they’re typically not your best fighters, your smartest soldiers, your you know what I mean?

[00:34:52] They are, they’re not the Chaols of the kingdom. They’re the guys who didn’t quite cut it, but [00:35:00] you still have a purpose for them.

[00:35:03] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:35:04] James: Because it’s not hard to guard a bunch of people who are sick and starving and tired all the time, which, and that’s not to take anything away from her and her ability to kill 27 of them or

[00:35:15] Ka-Ce: Twenty three. Plus one.

[00:35:18] James: You know, like that’s still a feat in itself that she was able to do that after being starved and working to the bone. And you know what I mean?

[00:35:29] Ka-Ce: width and everything. Yeah.

[00:35:32] James: but if those guards had been other guards,

[00:35:36] Don’t think she would have had quite as much luck getting as many of them.

[00:35:42] Ka-Ce: Okay.

[00:35:43] James: So, you know, just yeah, I don’t know, that was a tangent.

[00:35:47] I don’t even remember what my original point was, but

[00:35:50] Ka-Ce: All right. Well, I think we’re ready to move on to chapter three. so Dorian reveals the reason for Celaena’s presence. The [00:36:00] king of Adarlan seeks a champion to serve as his personal assassin. Dorian proposes that Celaena enters a competition to prove herself among other assassins, warriors, and criminals.

[00:36:12] If she wins, she’ll serve as the king’s champion for a few years and then be granted her freedom. Celaena, although initially amused by the idea, recognizes the opportunity as her best chance at freedom. The conversation is a turning point as Celaena begins to weigh her options, stay in the mines and die, or compete in the deadly contest and perhaps regain her life.

[00:36:37] I find this funny because like, you know, when she first learns that she can become the king’s champion, like, her immediate reaction is laughter. And she’s already like, I’m already Adarlan’s assassin. I am Adarlan’s greatest assassin. Why do I need to enter this competition? Like, just name me the champion.

[00:36:59] Let’s get [00:37:00] this done and over with, you know? So, I love her spunk and I love what’s the, Her high opinion of herself, like even though she’s been in the mines and she’s been a slave for over a year She’s just like, bitch, please. I’m still the top sh*t. What is this competition even about?

[00:37:20] James: Kind of makes you wonder too if they were thinking that she might not actually make it to the end or they were hoping she wouldn’t make it to the end or, I mean, we don’t know, like what was the actual, like. outcome that they wanted that they’re hoping for. Obviously they know that she’s very strong and she’s an assassin and she can do a lot of damage. But even as an assassin, she’s typically going after people who could never fight off an assassin, right?

[00:37:59] Ka-Ce: [00:38:00] Yeah.

[00:38:00] James: Politics Dukes people who. You know, people like that, people who are not going to fight back against her, they’re going to cry.

[00:38:09] Ka-Ce: easily. Yeah, and barter and

[00:38:11] James: Yeah. They’re going to beg for their lives and try to figure a way out of it.

[00:38:15] Right?

[00:38:16] Ka-Ce: yeah.

[00:38:17] James: And I think that’s something that she hasn’t considered is that she will be going up against, Like she is, she’s very full of herself. She’s like, I’m number one, baby. Like, and she doesn’t think about the fact that there are literally people who are warrior class, like, you know what I mean?

[00:38:41] Like assassins are a particular type of fighter.

[00:38:45] Typically they rely on surprise and stealth and assassins very rarely are going to win a fight going front to face with a warrior class type

[00:38:58] Ka-Ce: I love that you’re getting [00:39:00] very D& D esque, warrior class.

[00:39:02] James: I mean, yeah, but if you think about, I mean. People train for specific things, you know, because they are suited for specific things. People who are big, typically they’re like, I don’t want to sneak around, what are they going to do? Like, I’m just going to backhand them into the wall And then that guy, I’m going to kick his face down into his throat.

[00:39:29] Like, you know, it’s two different mindsets. And I don’t think at this point she’s even considered that, you know what I mean? It’s not until later when she meets some of the other champions, which, you know, when we get there, but then it’s, Then she’s gonna have her own little like, ooh, moment, you know,

[00:39:51] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:39:52] James: But right now she is, because in terms of what she knows and what she’s done and whatever, [00:40:00] she is the best. And those are valid feelings because I mean, she is like

[00:40:06] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:40:07] James: she has survived all manner of thing and she really only got caught because of a stupid mistake.

[00:40:15] Ka-Ce: Which we don’t know yet at this point.

[00:40:17] James: right. But you know. It’s yeah, she’s going to have to learn to tone it down a little bit because

[00:40:26] Ka-Ce: Well, see I think it worked for her because with her her sassiness and her confidence in herself, you know, the Prince Dorian came to her and he was like, You’ll be the king’s champion for six years. You’ll earn your freedom. And she’s like, huh? No, and they negotiated down to four years, you know, like to have the audacity Almost to look at the prince and be like no not six years.

[00:40:55] It’s gonna be less than that. Thank you

[00:40:58] James: yeah, no deal.[00:41:00]

[00:41:00] Ka-Ce: Like Anybody else would be quaking in their shoes, so to speak, you know, in front of the prince and be like, Oh my God, yes, thank you so much. Six years. That’s more than I can ever possibly dream of. And she’s just like, no.

[00:41:17] James: Yeah

[00:41:18] Ka-Ce: they got it down to four years.

[00:41:20] James: She’s almost like, at this point where she’s almost like, is there a bus back to the mines? Cause this deal ain’t this ain’t working for me. Like,

[00:41:28] Ka-Ce: right. So, and even even Dorian seemed kind of, I guess, relaxed in his in offering Celaena this position. So do you think his charm is hiding a deeper motive at this point? Do you think he sees her as a pawn in his father’s game, or do you genuine Or do you believe that he genuinely believes in her and her abilities?

[00:41:58] James: no, at this point, I [00:42:00] don’t think so. I think at this point he is trying to find the best way. option that’s going to help him out, but I don’t think that he’s convinced in terms of she thinks she’s very good. And he says, you know, well, she’s got a good reputation, but I’m just not seeing it.

[00:42:27] Like she’s kind of. She’s a brat, like, you know, she’s very much at this point, and it’s weird because they treat her like, like, you know, on one hand, they’re treating her like a very dangerous threat, right, keeping her chained up and all this, but then on the other hand, they talk to her, like, but I don’t know if you’re the right pick for the, like, and it’s like, she did kill, you know, 23 guards, guys, [00:43:00] like, don’t forget this.

[00:43:01] And then

[00:43:01] Ka-Ce: Right.

[00:43:02] James: I feel like Chaol never really like lets that go.

[00:43:06] He’s like, Dorian you’re being too like, candid about this.

[00:43:12] Ka-Ce: Well, I mean, like, a soldier is always going to back another soldier, you know, sort of thing, like, even if they worked at the mines or as palace guards or whatever, like, they’re still one in the same, so he’s, you know, that’s almost like a direct attack on him, I would think. But I think, too, like, with Dorian bantering.

[00:43:35] With Celaena during all of this is a way for him to test her mental fortitude and everything too because she has been in the mines for a year and the mines usually break people and they say, you know, to that the mines usually kill people within a couple of months due to lack of Eyllwed and

[00:43:55] James: Yeah.

[00:43:56] Ka-Ce: And my mind just went blank infections and everything [00:44:00] and she, she has somehow stayed alive for a year.

[00:44:04] So maybe physically she’s okay, but mentally, like, is she off her rocker? Like, could she come away from the mines and participate in this? Or would they be releasing a mad woman into the palace? You know?

[00:44:22] James: True. Yeah. And that’s, I think that’s one of the things that Dorian employs. Not just on her, but on, on everybody. We see him do it to Chaol too on different occasions where they have these like, what’s the, I’m trying to think of the term, but it’s like, when you’re saying something without saying it, You know what I mean?

[00:44:43] Like it’s the undertone of what you’re saying. So, so you come and you’re like, you know, Oh, did you see, like, did they perform well? And you’re really asking them, like, do you think that they’re going to advance to the, you know, whatever. Right. [00:45:00] Dorian uses, he uses his wit and banter. Sort of as a weapon

[00:45:08] Figure out where people are they smart enough to keep up with him because he is very smart.

[00:45:15] And like you said you know, it’s a way for him to see how mentally there she still is. Which he realizes pretty quickly that. Yeah, she’s quick. She’s a pain, she’s a pain in the ass but in terms of like, like, she is definitely a force to be watched because that time in the mines literally didn’t do anything to her other than make her really skinny.

[00:45:42] You know what I mean? Like she she’s, she was not broken. And I think he was glad for that though. Like, cause you kind of have to really wonder how serious all these people feel about this. Like, is she a [00:46:00] viable. Does she stand a chance? Is this just for fun and games? Like pull her out after a year and then throw her into a tournament and watch her get killed by the first guy she goes up against because then it’s, well, I thought she was a great assassin and she died at the first one.

[00:46:15] Like, you know what I mean? Like. Is this a serious thing? If I was her, I would be like, am I really even getting a fair deal at this point? Like, are they really going to give me my freedom?

[00:46:29] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:46:29] James: I can go all, like, I think I can go all the way, but am I going to get to the end? And then they’re going to be like,

[00:46:37] Ka-Ce: Haha, just

[00:46:38] James: yeah, right?

[00:46:39] I

[00:46:42] Ka-Ce: Yeah. And then is such a sh*t too, because he drops it at the end that Celaena won’t be competing as Celaena Sardothien, Adarlan’s assassin. She will have to use an alias. No [00:47:00] one knew that Celaena the assassin was a young woman.

[00:47:04] The king didn’t want word to get out that the famous assassin was a young woman. That, like, to me, that just, the king didn’t want to hurt his pride, sort of thing. Nobody had been able to catch the assassin up until that point, and the king is just like, we can’t have it. Getting out, you know, that this 17 year old girl is the assassin and Prince Dorian is also like we can’t have you as Celaena entering this competition.

[00:47:32] So, do you think it, would it hurt the king if the competitors and his advisors knew that the Adarlan’s assassin is a young woman? Would it put a bigger target on Celaena’s back if she didn’t use the alias?

[00:47:47] James: think if they had all known that she was the famous assassin, she definitely would have been picked out early on, like they, [00:48:00] they would have come after her from the get go and maybe not even other competitors or anything like that, but political people who wanted revenge or I mean, Yeah.

[00:48:13] Anybody, really, family of one of the guards she killed at the mines, who, you know, if they knew that she was in the castle, I mean, that could cause an uprising. You know, with people like, why is the king housing the assassin? Like, does he not care about his subjects? And she killed all these soldiers and now she’s getting put up in a fancy room.

[00:48:38] Like,

[00:48:40] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:48:41] James: so that was definitely strategic thinking on the King’s part.

[00:48:47] Ka-Ce: On Dorian’s part. Dorian is the one that was like, you have to compete under an alias.

[00:48:52] James: I thought the King didn’t want, Oh,

[00:48:56] Ka-Ce: No, it was Dorian. Dorian was like, So, I want you to [00:49:00] enter this competition if you want your freedom. By the way, if you agree, you have to enter under an

[00:49:06] James: Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah, cause yeah, I forgot they had to go and present it to the king and he was like, I want her as my champion, and the king was just like, okay,

[00:49:17] The

[00:49:18] Ka-Ce: f*** boy.

[00:49:19] James: yeah, like, why, but okay, this is kind of interesting, like, yeah, that’s right I had gotten the two mixed up, I forgot. Definitely strategic thinking. Yeah, but well, that’s the thing I was saying to Dorian is a strategic thinker, and he uses that because what he lacks in physical power, not to say that he’s necessarily weak.

[00:49:44] Ka-Ce: Mhm.

[00:49:45] James: But, if it came down to it, and there was a fight, I think that Chaol would, could take him. I think he would,

[00:49:50] Ka-Ce: Oh definitely.

[00:49:52] James: Like,

[00:49:53] Ka-Ce: Dorian trains. He would have to you know? Most princes carry a sword and stuff. So they get the basic training, but [00:50:00] Chaol, as captain of the soldiers, would have to be training daily. He’s going to be breaking up skirmishes and everything.

[00:50:07] James: Yeah, so, Dorian has to use his wit to make up for what he lacks in physical and that he is. He’s strategic, planning, You know, so this was a plan, like, and he probably had that plan from way before they even went to get her, like, he’s like, depending on what she says,

[00:50:29] Ka-Ce: that says you know,

[00:50:31] James: this is going to be the way it goes.

[00:50:33] If she says no, we’re going to have to convince her to say yes. Okay. So, moving on now to chapter 4. Now that we have sort of a basis of, you know, what’s going on with her and the expectations of those around her chapter four after agreeing to the deal, Celaena is taken to her temporary quarters in Endovier.

[00:50:59] She’s [00:51:00] scrubbed clean her wounds treated, and she’s given proper clothing, marking her physical transformation from slave to competitor. Despite the luxury of a bed, Celaena chooses to sleep on the floor, her time in the mind still haunting her body and mind. She reflects on her physical deterioration over the past year and sets her mind on regaining her strength, beauty, and power.

[00:51:26] This chapter highlights the first steps in Celaena’s journey towards reclaiming her former self. So, you know, there’s kind of a lot to unpack there. From her moving to a basically a kind of a place of comfort after a year of pure hell, like, so, you know, this is something that they kind of talk about and allude to up to this point, but you know, she spent a year in the mines.

[00:51:58] She physically [00:52:00] suffered a lot. So, you know, what what was your kind of, I guess, your reaction or not your reaction, but your thought process on you know, the fact that she really does look at herself because she hasn’t thought about herself in a year, but isn’t it, she like sees herself in a reflection or something somewhere.

[00:52:22] And she’s like, Oh, Like I look bad, like,

[00:52:28] Ka-Ce: so I think I think she was looking in the mirror, like, you know, at her reflection and you know, she’s just going over how thin she now is, like she was always thin, but thin athletic, you know, from being an assassin being very physical and yes, she’s still, she was still doing physical things in the salt mines with the pickaxe and everything, The malnourishment of not being able to eat real food, probably had a severe vitamin D [00:53:00] deficiency, you know, when you’re in the mines all the time.

[00:53:03] James: didn’t she even say that she couldn’t really even remember the last time she saw a sunrise or a sunset or something? Like.

[00:53:10] Ka-Ce: yeah, like,

[00:53:12] James: the,

[00:53:13] Ka-Ce: you know, and the scars because she was whipped and she was whipped a lot during her time there. So that, that has got to be a physical shock. You know, the last time you saw yourself, your reflection, you’re a healthy person, and then to see yourself after a year. And this is now what you look like.

[00:53:35] That, that’s gotta play some mental, just, blah to yourself, you know? And then she’s hungry and she, she wants to eat the food and she does eat the food. Like a real dinner. She’s finally given a real dinner and she throws it up.

[00:53:54] James: I think

[00:53:55] Ka-Ce: I don’t think most people realize that you can’t just give a [00:54:00] starving person, a person who has been starving for over a year, you can’t just give them a big feast, like it’s detrimental to your body, which seems really.

[00:54:08] It seems really weird to think about that way, but no, you’ve got to ease your body back into that. So I really like that Sarah did write that in the book. Like,

[00:54:20] James: No, that was a very realistic approach to a person who was in, you know, in those kinds of conditions when your body is malnourished and malnutritioned. It kind of learns how to survive on like you are. It is slowly killing you. Like you can’t survive malnourished for a long long time you know, things happen.

[00:54:42] Your fat deposits go away, your stomach shrinks, your body learns to make the most of what it has to a certain degree, and then you throw some. Fancy food in there. I mean, she probably was [00:55:00] living off of bread, you know,

[00:55:01] Ka-Ce: And gruel, I

[00:55:02] James: and gruel, which gruel is like, what? Oats and, you know, whatever. Right?

[00:55:09] Ka-Ce: Bottom of the barrel, like, leftover oat stuff. Yeah.

[00:55:13] James: And suddenly you throw in, even in a case like that, something as simple as eating like an apple

[00:55:20] Be enough to upset the body because it’s got things in it that you haven’t had.

[00:55:29] Ka-Ce: Yeah,

[00:55:29] James: your body has to readjust to having all of that kind of stuff, the juice and the nutrients

[00:55:36] Ka-Ce: the sugar, vitamins

[00:55:38] James: and even just probably the, just the sheer amount of food she probably was living off of, you know, a bowl that was only, you know, like a tiny, you know,

[00:55:50] Ka-Ce: Everything. Yeah.

[00:55:52] James: And your stomach just can’t handle it.

[00:55:54] Your body doesn’t know what to do with all that extra stuff. And yeah it can’t digest it [00:56:00] properly. It can’t absorb the nutrients. And so, yeah, you just kind of, you’re going to get rid of it.

[00:56:05] Ka-Ce: Yeah. And I think, as you’re saying, you know, everything shrinks. I think being 17, when she, you know, was first thrown into Endovier, she was still developing. You know, it’s, you don’t really think about it, but at 17, you’re still developing. You’re still growing. She was still physically a girl

[00:56:30] On the cusp of womanhood, you know, and then to be thrown in and then be malnourished.

[00:56:37] And yeah, so she spent a little bit of time in front of the mirror mourning the loss of her beauty. Like, you know, her golden hair is not as vibrant and shiny and her breasts have like all but disappeared. That would be hard for any woman. And that would be hard For anybody that’s still in their development years,

[00:56:58] You know, like [00:57:00] going into a situation as an adult would suck.

[00:57:03] Like it would suck no matter what age, but at least as an adult, you know, your frontal lobe and everything has already fully developed. You have the skills to hopefully cope. She’s going in or she went in. It’s still a developing woman still, you know, on that cusp and that’s hard. That’s hard to take in.

[00:57:25] James: I would just die. You just put me in there and I would just be like, dude, bro, I’m 40. No, like, I’m just, I’m going to go to that corner over there. Don’t bother me. Yeah. I’ll be dead in 30 minutes, like, just leave me alone, like,

[00:57:42] Ka-Ce: I think that’s every millennial’s dream at this point though. Like just let me go in the corner and just leave me alone. I’m done.

[00:57:49] James: yeah, pretty much, it does for her. It sets up this important journey. Now of her realizing, [00:58:00] oh, I got work to do because in the state I’m in, I can talk a big game, but I don’t probably couldn’t do much against, you know, like I said, the guards that she killed in the mines. Not the smartest, not the strongest, not the, you know what I mean?

[00:58:20] Going up against trained fighters at this point, she doesn’t stand a chance. And I think this is her first step in, even if she doesn’t want to admit it. It’s her first step in realizing it and acknowledging that she’s in trouble because she’s accepted this, you know, thing. But at this point, you know, can she actually win?

[00:58:45] Because the girl in the mirror is not, you know, The girl that she it’s not what she feels,

[00:58:52] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:58:53] James: which she will discover, you know, during training and yeah, you know, [00:59:00] it’s it’s a big it’s a big step for the character to see the weakness, not on, not of her own fault, but she’s been put into this position and now she has to figure out how quickly can she get out of it and can she get out of it.

[00:59:19] And that’s not even just all of it, you know, then there’s a whole psychological part to this because, you know, you take somebody who’s in that and you suddenly pull them out and now all of a sudden she’s got a bed and there’s food and things that she probably thought she’d never see again.

[00:59:39] Ka-Ce: Nice clothes.

[00:59:40] James: You know, so this is going to be, you know, mental mind screwing, like

[00:59:46] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:59:47] James: like, is this real?

[00:59:50] Did I actually die? And like, I mean, you know, like you kind of question, like, is this a cruel game? Did they just [01:00:00] pull me out? And, you know, like mentally, she’s going to be going through just as much. As she is physically at this point, like,

[01:00:13] Ka-Ce: Yeah. I mean, even like she, she rejected sleeping in the bed too. Like her body rejected the food. She tossed and turned in the comfy bed. just couldn’t right away. You know, Chaol the next morning finds her sleeping on the floor with a pillow. And that’s just heartbreaking. Like, just get so used to sleeping on something hard and not, you know, that your first your immediate reaction to comfort is something hard and not something regular, like a bed.

[01:00:53] James: Yeah, you’re, you just, you don’t know what to make of it and your body is just like, no, this [01:01:00] isn’t, I’m not okay with this.

[01:01:03] And part of it could to just be her not fully accepting the situation yet to, you know, like she’s still maybe in. Denial, disbelief about what’s happening, like, don’t get too comfortable because you might not be staying here for very long, like, you know, you don’t know, and who would want to get re wrapped up in the comforts of life.

[01:01:30] Ka-Ce: And then

[01:01:30] James: Just to have it pulled away again.

[01:01:33] Ka-Ce: Yeah,

[01:01:34] James: So you got to figure she’s a little bit you know, mentally she’s just not accepting what it is yet.

[01:01:44] Ka-Ce: I like that, that with Dawn came kind of a new outlook, you know, she’s marveling at the sunlight. And it’s reawakening something in her to life outside the [01:02:00] mines. And again, she thinks to herself with this new outlook and this new day, I will not be afraid. I just, I don’t know. I really love that

[01:02:11] James: You know, it feels kind of like a a mantra, like,

[01:02:15] Like she actively tells herself, I will not be afraid. Partly because as an assassin, like I was saying earlier you can’t show fear Because as an assassin, you are supposed to be an emotionless killing machine, right? And people aren’t going to be afraid of a thing that also looks like it’s afraid of what it’s doing, you know?

[01:02:39] But her repeating that to herself is her affirmation and her mantra. And it’s her telling herself, you know, I have things to do. I will not be afraid. I don’t have time to be afraid. If I have time to think about this, I have time to [01:03:00] be training or

[01:03:03] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:03:03] figuring out how to get out of here. You know, fear is a luxury that she does not have.

[01:03:10] James: It kind of, that’s how it feels to me. Like,

[01:03:13] Ka-Ce: Fear can be dealt with later, like, let me get through the moment and then I will. break down, you know, what I was

[01:03:24] James: yeah. Breakdown can happen later. Right now I got crap to do. And that’s a future me problem.

[01:03:31] Ka-Ce: Yeah I think also this chapter brought out her reaching out and wanting and needing that human connection again. Yes, she’s shackled with other slaves, you know, during her year at Endovier and, you know, everybody’s kind of broken down. You’re not really going to form deep connections in something like that.

[01:03:58] You’re not going to form [01:04:00] relationships with your guards, with your overseer and stuff. So you know, as they are journeying by horseback back to Rifthold, you know, Celaenas finds herself once again shackled with Chaol. holding her chains. And despite that, despite again, having sort of an overseer with Captain Chaol she’s goading him with questions.

[01:04:24] I think she is just, she so desperately wants to talk to someone. She needs and is craving this human connection again. And she desperately wants him to ask her about her past as an assassin, and how she became so great. Like, do you think this is just her being prideful about her past, and about being the greatest assassin?

[01:04:49] Or do you think this is more like, f***, please talk to me. Like,

[01:04:56] James: It could be, I mean, part of that, you know, with the [01:05:00] human connection and everything, but I feel more distinctly, this part is more along the lines of she needs him to be afraid of her, and he is not. He’s wary of her, but since the moment that he met her. And she couldn’t see his face, you know, and she got the glimpse of his sword when he was doing something and she was like, Oh sh*t, like, he’s a guard of the, you know, like the inside guard, you know, That gave her pause, you know, and I think that she is desperately trying to take control of the relationship that they have, because they do have a relationship at this point.

[01:05:48] It’s, you know, I’m the person in charge of you and you are this maybe champion contestant, but you’re also an assassin and you’re also a pain in the ass [01:06:00] because she’s constantly trying to get a rise out of him. In some way, and he isn’t giving it to her, you know, she’s like a this and a that and he’s just like, yeah, okay, you know, and she doesn’t know how to deal with that.

[01:06:21] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:06:22] James: and I feel like she’s trying to take control of the situation because she knows that she’s at a disadvantage. She’s chained up and he is literally the one who is deciding her fate at this particular moment. You know, I mean, Dorian ultimately and the king, but right now he’s the one that’s there

[01:06:41] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:06:41] James: and people who are used to getting their way.

[01:06:48] Don’t like it when they don’t, and he holds all the cards, he holds all the power and she, I think she is just [01:07:00] unhappy about that. She needs something, even if it just pisses him off a little bit, that’s a win, because it means that she got under his skin, and she’s not getting it. And there might be a little bit of pride in there too, like, you know, I am the best assassin, and it’s did you hear me? I’m the best assassin. And he’s just going like, Oh yeah, okay. You know, like,

[01:07:26] Ka-Ce: Yeah, that, that would irk me. I’d be like no, you don’t understand. I am the best. Ask me about it. Come on.

[01:07:33] James: He’s literally like, I don’t care. Like,

[01:07:39] Ka-Ce: During all of that, you know, she starts to ask him about his relationship with Prince Dorian. And if Chaol himself holds any titles, you know, Lord, Duke, whatever. And again, there’s a lack of response from Chaol. Do you think he’s hiding something, or do you think he just doesn’t want to share with the [01:08:00] criminal?

[01:08:00] James: Yeah, I don’t think at this point he’s actively trying to hide anything from her. I think it’s, he’s just, he’s disinterested and he’s trying to remain disinterested because the minute he invests in her and she becomes a person, then she’s no longer just an assassin. And she’s no longer just a contested for the champion.

[01:08:27] And now it’s somebody he knows. And it’s, you know, from there, it’s really hard to disconnect from that personal. However, that personal connection starts

[01:08:39] it’s really hard to disconnect from that. And I think it’s, it literally is. He is just trying to keep that. Like,

[01:08:52] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:08:55] James: that’s how I, you know,

[01:08:58] Ka-Ce: So, moving [01:09:00] on to chapter 5. As the group travels through the countryside, Celaena begins to experience life outside of the mines again. She observes the natural beauty of the landscape, including the legendary Oakwald forest, which is steeped in ancient magic. Celaena’s connection to the forest and its legends of fairies hints at her deeper knowledge of world’s magic, which has been suppressed under Adarlans rule.

[01:09:23] During the journey, her interactions with Chaol reveal a growing tension between them. While Celaena tries to provoke him with her wit, Chaol remains distant and focused on his duty, though his actions might suggest he might harbor some sympathy for her situation. So, in this chapter, we’re beginning to see, or we’re seeing more of Celaena’s, there’s a little cameo from Willow again, for our YouTubers.

[01:09:51] Celaena begins to feel the isolation of her past creeping in, particularly when observing the guards and the prisoners left behind. [01:10:00] How does this sense of being an outsider affect her interactions with others, including Chaol and Dorian?

[01:10:09] James: I think, you know, being being an assassin is going to be a lonely life, right? Like, no matter how you look at it. And then of course being captured, going to the mines, more isolation. You know, it’s she’s looking for a way to. connect with the other people, I think even though she probably doesn’t really understand yet to like, to the degree of what it is that she wants. She just, there’s, she just needs something

[01:10:50] And, you know, there’s, I think a bit of it’s not regret, but it’s you know, she left all those people behind. You know, and [01:11:00] how is that fair? You know, that she’s the one that, Got plucked out and,

[01:11:08] Ka-Ce: And leaving all the other slaves there.

[01:11:10] James: you know, yeah, and I mean, they were people that she cared for that, you know, she helped, you know, she describes how she helped some of them with the, you know, the the infections that would kill them within a day or so. And she would clean them and, but then she talks about how, you know, one day somebody is there the next day, somebody is not there because they got crushed in a rock slide or.

[01:11:35] They got whipped too many times or, you know, so she’s dealing with a lot of it within the span of a day. Her whole world has been turned upside down again,

[01:11:47] So I think it’s to go from an isolation, there’s a number of different kinds of isolations. I think at this point, the isolation of being an assassin, of [01:12:00] not being able to really connect with anybody Because of the kind of stuff that she has to do, and she has the isolation of being captured and being in the mines, and now she’s free ish, but she’s still in isolation because the people around her don’t view her as a person, she’s just trapped. To Dorian, she’s just a tool to, you know, whatever we don’t, you know, she doesn’t know what his ultimate goal is at this point.

[01:12:35] You kind of get the idea that, you know, yeah, she’s just a weapon for the Prince now. Chaol’s right there, but he couldn’t give two sh*ts about, you know, anything that she finds interesting.

[01:12:49] He’s basically like, don’t cause me trouble. Let’s go. Like, The sooner I can transport you,

[01:12:58] Ka-Ce: The better.

[01:12:59] James: the [01:13:00] better, and don’t make my job harder, please. Like, you know, so this girl’s not getting a break. Like, she’s gone through all these things, and she’s still ultimately alone. Because nobody cares about Celaena, the person.

[01:13:24] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:13:25] She’s an assassin. She’s the assassin. And that’s, you know, yeah,

[01:13:32] Yeah. I think I think going with that and the isolation, you know, the group makes camp, the soldiers, Dorian, the Duke, Chaol, Celaena, they make camp and she overhears the guards, the soldiers talking about Oakland forest and how much the soldiers [01:14:00] want this forest burnt down to the king of Adarlan burnt much of the world down during his conquest. And in Oakland forest, you know, the, there were a lot of Fae and fairies that were killed or driven from their home during this king’s war.

[01:14:17] And the soldiers, you know, they follow their leader. They. They want this to be gone as well. And she steps in and she’s like, No, this is Brannon’s forest. King Brannon was a fae. This was the fae forest. You know, this forest had the gnomes and the nymphs and the sprites, etc. And those were all ruled by the immortal fae.

[01:14:43] So I think even just amongst sitting there listening to everybody talking, she is still feeling that isolation. Like, even if she wanted to try and fit in and talk, the soldiers are like, no, this forest needs to be burned down. [01:15:00] These creatures need to be further driven out and everything. I think that’s sad, you know,

[01:15:09] James: she still can’t connect to the people that she’s sitting there with because ultimately, you know, they want and believe things very different than she does.

[01:15:23] You know, and she just, what is there to connect to, you know, she can’t connect with them. And so, you know,

[01:15:34] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:15:34] James: Even though they’re guards, like she don’t care, but.

[01:15:38] Ka-Ce: yeah. Yeah. So we find out a little bit more about her history. We find out that Arobynn Hamel, he was the king of assassins. And he found her when she was eight and she was orphaned. Her original home was Terrasin. And Arobynn is a f***ing asshole and would [01:16:00] have handed her over to the king if she hadn’t agreed to become his apprentice.

[01:16:06] Sort of thing. That’s the only, like, little bit of snippet that we get more, like, so each chapter we’re getting a little bit more and more of her history. But do you think, how does this complicated relationship with her mentor shape her view of loyalty and power?

[01:16:21] James: I mean, you know, she, she was very loyal to, you know, the assassins and the assassin guild. But, you know, at this point, you’re not really sure if it’s because she had no other options or, you know, if she truly felt that way. I didn’t ever really get the sense that she ever looked at him as like a father figure at all. She always does actually throughout the other [01:17:00] parts kind of seems to think about him with disdain.

[01:17:04] Like, you know, yeah, he trained me and yeah, I became a great assassin but it didn’t really do me any favors. Like, like the life was still hard, right? Like if she didn’t do a good job, she got punished. So it was,

[01:17:21] Ka-Ce: would be tough love, if you subscribe to that.

[01:17:25] James: well, I don’t think he was doing it out of, you know, he was trying to create a weapon and he did a really good job,

[01:17:34] You know, I think it’s kind of key to her character is nobody really understands her mental fortitude And she has lost parts of herself, but for the most part, she has kept true to herself. You know, she recognizes things for what they are. And even though she is an assassin, [01:18:00] you get the idea that she is not just a cold blooded killer. Like she still has values and things that, That she looks at and says, that’s not like, that’s not right. You know, I may be a killer and an assassin, but that sh*t right there, that ain’t right, you know?

[01:18:24] So, I think she understands loyalty and I think she will be loyal. As long as you give her a reason. For her to stay loyal,

[01:18:40] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:18:41] James: Like it’s not an unconditional, you know, kind of a blind loyalty.

[01:18:49] Ka-Ce: Yeah. You have to show her why.

[01:18:54] James: Yeah.

[01:18:54] Ka-Ce: why stay loyal the respective works the same [01:19:00] way. So we find out also during the King’s War King of Adarlan outlawed magic Fae fairies said it was an affront to the goddess and her gods. Within a month magic also disappeared. They went around burning books and doesn’t this sound familiar to our political state today? Storefronts, sacred places destroyed, magic users, seers, healers, they were all burned or became prisoners in Endovier.

[01:19:32] We also learn a little bit that Celaena also had gifts and memory of her abilities haunted her dreams, but we don’t know what her gifts were. Do you have any theories when you were first reading up to this

[01:19:50] James: I mean, I kind of basically figured that somehow she was connected to the Fae world at this point because of her concern for the forest [01:20:00] and just her sort of general knowledge about the things that should have been there. I was I, you know, I wasn’t sure. what it was going to be. But there was definitely, I did feel that she had some Fae connection and I, yeah, I was just waiting to see what it was basically.

[01:20:21] Like, and I guess, I mean, if you were a young child, you know, at eight or whatever, And then you were taken and put into some completely different situation and then never really given a chance to think about or explore, you’re going to forget how to do stuff like that. Or forget that it’s really even there, you know, it’s like learning to play piano. You can be great at it. You don’t do it for five or six years. You know, you forget how to do some of it. You don’t do it for 10 or 15 years. Well, you’re going to be hard pressed to even maybe [01:21:00] remember. What you even did, you know, I mean, that’s just kind of a loose example, but

[01:21:05] Ka-Ce: Well, I mean, yeah, there, there is a point to where if the ability is also taken away from you,

[01:21:13] James: well, yeah I mean if magic is removed and it was a magical ability then you wouldn’t even remember what it was I mean,

[01:21:22] Ka-Ce: or how to do it,

[01:21:23] James: maybe you just knew that you were magical but you never actually knew The potential of that magic and then all of a sudden you just knew that it was gone one day and you’re like, well, that sucks.

[01:21:36] I didn’t even get to find out what it was,

[01:21:39] Ka-Ce: yeah.

[01:21:39] James: you know,

[01:21:42] Ka-Ce: So like we said, they had made camp for the night and Celaena is given her own tent when they stopped the camp. But she is shackled to a guard posted outside her tent. I find this hilarious, considering that she killed 24 people at the salt mines. And yes, she has been [01:22:00] shackled, more or less, to Chaol during their travels.

[01:22:03] But if they really, if she really wanted guard is, that’s really not enough. I just, I find it funny that they pointed this out. You would think that Chaol would be like, no, we need guards all over her tent. If she moves, I want to know. And instead, they’re like, no, just shackle her to one guard.

[01:22:23] They’ll be fine. If she decides to escape, it’ll be fine. I don’t know.

[01:22:29] James: Yeah. The thinking behind that is because you don’t get the idea that Chaol is stupid to be like, yeah, just, you’ll be fine. And the guard that she shackled to, he’s probably sitting there like is not fine. Like.

[01:22:43] Ka-Ce: right?

[01:22:44] Like, I get that her life is also on the line. Like if she were to try and flee, they will hunt her down. So her want to get out of all of this is to fight to become the champion and serve her time as the champion. It was just [01:23:00] like, we’re just gonna shackle you to this one random guard that’s staying up this night.

[01:23:05] And good luck to you.

[01:23:06] James: I mean, well, maybe they also considered like, she’s full of herself and she thinks that she can do a lot right now, but she is probably overestimating her. Well, I mean, actually she kind of is, which you see later in the books, she wouldn’t have made it very far if she tried to run like physically, she can’t do it.

[01:23:30] I think she thinks she can, but realistically. She wouldn’t make it very far. They would catch her and to her, yeah, is it worth it to risk trying to escape and maybe making it or trying to escape and them going, you’re not worth this trouble? Like,

[01:23:49] Ka-Ce: Yeah. Getting shot down. Yeah.

[01:23:52] James: and she is, she, despite everything that she’s been through, she’s hopeful.

[01:23:58] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:23:58] James: is hopeful that [01:24:00] this is going to be a legit way for her to gain her freedom. She doesn’t understand the full impact and full ramification yet of what she’s agreed to,

[01:24:09] But it is a possibility. And that’s you see through her character is, despite everything, she remains hopeful about her future and the future in general.

[01:24:24] Which in of itself is amazing because most people at this point would be like, I’m not, I don’t care. Like just kill me at this point. Cause

[01:24:35] Just done.. Like

[01:24:38] Ka-Ce: yeah,

[01:24:39] James: people ain’t going to have that much fight left in them. Like, and she is she’s a fighter. Like,

[01:24:45] Ka-Ce: she is through and through. So I just wanted to make note of this before we move on to the next chapter. So you had mentioned that you thought that she had some connection to the Fae, you know, with the brief mentioned that. [01:25:00] that she had some gift when she was younger. So when she wakes in the morning, she sees small white flowers laid at the foot of her cot with infant sized footprints going in and out of her tent.

[01:25:12] And she quickly, you know, sweeps any traces away. She hides the flowers in a satchel and she’s like on guard the whole morning. No one mentions anything about fairies or the flowers or the footprints, but you know, she’s just like. on guard about it the whole rest of the day. Palms sweaty, heart racing, you know, and she’s keeping an eye out on the woods as they travel. Did this solidify your thinking that she has some connection to the Fae? Do you think it was something else?

[01:25:49] James: yeah, I pretty much figured, you know, the Fae were at least interested in her to some degree. And then I was expecting. Something to happen? [01:26:00] Not a jailbreak. Just, I honestly was expecting for her to see something like in the forest,

[01:26:06] Ka-Ce: Yeah,

[01:26:07] James: she never did. Like, it literally, that’s it. Footprints, flowers, and then

[01:26:14] Ka-Ce: and then

[01:26:15] James: they get to the castle and

[01:26:17] Ka-Ce: No mention. Yeah.

[01:26:19] James: she never saw anything else about it, you know? So you just like, was it just some thing that wandered in and was like, Oh, Hey, like I’m attracted to this person because of something, Fae energy or, you know, or something. And then that’s it. Like, yeah, I was actually really surprised that they got all the way to the.

[01:26:45] You know, when we did the next chapter that there was just nothing in the forest, she never saw anything. She never heard anything. She just,

[01:26:55] Ka-Ce: They continued on their trek and there was

[01:26:57] James: yeah, like, I don’t know. It was kind [01:27:00] of, to me, it was a little odd to like mention it. And then nothing came of it, which, you know, I guess kind of makes sense if, you know, they don’t want to be seen, but you get the impression that all the magical creatures are gone because there’s no magic.

[01:27:16] So I don’t, yeah. I don’t know. It was just a little weird for me that part because I just was like, okay, I mean,

[01:27:27] Ka-Ce: Yeah, I remember reading it the first time and thinking, Okay, so there is something there. What-what are we getting next? And we didn’t get anything.

[01:27:37] James: Yeah. So, so yeah, it was a kind of a weird way to end the chapter, but you know, that’s okay.. So after two weeks of travel the party nears Rifthold, the capital of Adarlan and the glass castle where the competition takes place is there. [01:28:00] The journey has been arduous. With harsh weather conditions, but Celaena remains resolute.

[01:28:06] As they approach the glass castle, Celaena reflects on her past and the betrayal that led to her capture. The sheer size and grandeur of the glass castle stirs up memories of her former life and she steals herself for what lies ahead. This chapter serves as a bridge between her life as a prisoner and the new challenges awaiting her in the competition.

[01:28:31] So, there was a lot of focus put on the journey, right? Because it took them a while to get to The castle and it talked very much about her discomfort as they were going through how she had wet shoes and she was cold and just generally uncomfortable got her really thinking about, you know, when she had the good life [01:29:00] and Even at some point, I think she was, you know, this traveling conditions compared to even being in the mines.

[01:29:10] This sucks. Like, I didn’t have to sleep in the rain. Like, I didn’t have wet, you know, wet clothes and wet shoes. And so, you know, When you were reading that, like, you know, do you think that they were, you know, none of them were comfortable, like Chaol wasn’t comfortable, the guards weren’t comfortable. But like, do you think that there could have been an easier way for them to do this? Like, did they have to make it miserable for her?

[01:29:44] Or is it just one of those things where it’s like, we’re soldiers, we’re used to this, and she can fend for herself? Like, again, not really caring about her conditions,. because she’s a great assassin. Like [01:30:00] she can figure it out. She’ll be fine. Like,

[01:30:02] Ka-Ce: or at least, you know, like the guards and Chaol, they have this mindset that she is still a prisoner. She is still a criminal. Criminals don’t get the comforts of anything she, I think they were like, you’re lucky you get nice clothes. You’re lucky that you get your own tent.

[01:30:19] You’re lucky that you get your own mount, you know, everything else suck it up buttercup sort of thing. I think the only people that they’re going to be worried about comfort is the crown Prince Dorian and Duke Perrington because they are the nobles and everybody else is basically a peon. I also find it, like, Chaol had threatened Celaena before in one of the chapters, like, you know, basically if you don’t shut up I could throw you into one of the wagons, you know, and then you’ll be stuck riding inside of a wagon on this journey.

[01:30:59] So [01:31:00] I think if she was truly miserable or, you know, I mean she was miserable, but I think if she had caused enough fracas, she could have traveled in a wagon. It probably would have sucked, but at least you would have been dry. But there was that feeling of being trapped again. Like, if you were trapped in a mine for a year, you wouldn’t want to be trapped in a wagon either.

[01:31:23] At least, I wouldn’t. Like, I would rather be soaking wet, but outside. Where I would get the sense of freedom versus being trapped. You know, cornered in a wagon.

[01:31:36] I think that everybody still has this mindset of she’s a criminal. Her wants, needs, and desires still don’t matter at this point. She is not a person at this point.

[01:31:52] James: yeah. I mean, fair. She’s just an assassin, you know, it’s that personal connection. She’s not a person. [01:32:00] She’s just an assassin or just a criminal or, you know, it’s a Taking the humanity out of the person so that you don’t feel quite so bad when they’re struggling and suffering. And,

[01:32:13] Ka-Ce: Yeah,

[01:32:14] James: you know, so she had, you know, two weeks of that, right.

[01:32:19] It was about two weeks of the travel. They finally get to the castle. They described the castle, right, as gargantuan, vertical city of shimmering crystalline towers and bridges you know, reflects the light and all this stuff. And it’s very grandiose and she hates it like immediately she’s like, what the sh*t this? Like,

[01:32:49] Ka-Ce: Yeah,

[01:32:50] James: Like, I feel like I don’t think that I personally would have that same reaction. Because like, I like [01:33:00] castles and granted, I didn’t spend a year in a mine, but her reaction in this is really just funny to me because she does get to just this Obscenely large, beautiful castle estate.

[01:33:19] Her first reaction is, I hate it.

[01:33:22] Like,

[01:33:23] Ka-Ce: It’s tasteless. I think she says like, the castle is tasteless, a waste of resources and talent. And I love that Prince Dorian is even like, one more glass tower and the whole thing will collapse. Like, he himself is also not a fan of this.

[01:33:39] James: Right. He lives there. Like,

[01:33:41] Ka-Ce: and yeah, and he lives there. When I first read this and this might be like a California only sort of thing.

[01:33:50] But it reminded me of like the crystal cathedral. I don’t know if your school ever took you to field trips to the crystal cathedral. So that’s what I was like trying to envision. But [01:34:00] at the same time, like, you know, they’re talking about this whole thing is made out of glass. And I’m trying to picture this and I’m usually very Inventive and stuff and, you know, my mind just goes into all sorts of details about everything and I like, I can’t picture a fully glass castle.

[01:34:16] I’m like, can you see into the bedrooms? If you’re on the outside, can you see, like, people doing stuff that should be behind closed doors?

[01:34:28] James: I didn’t, I wasn’t getting it very well either because they described going into areas. That, that they clearly can’t see into.

[01:34:41] So is it, I don’t know. I may have to reread it to like, to see cause a purely glass castle. Yeah. You would be able to see through some, you know, levels of it, or is it.

[01:34:57] Is it glass, but it’s [01:35:00] opaque glass. So the walls appear solid, you know, like frosted glass. But then it does describe that there is stone, you know, because

[01:35:09] Ka-Ce: built on top of the original stone castle. So you have, like, this big stone castle, and then on top of it you have this big, grandiose glass castle, and

[01:35:19] James: yeah. So it must be not translucent glass. Like,

[01:35:24] Ka-Ce: All I can think about, too, is, like, if it’s, like, a really sunny day, like, summer, is it going through and reflecting prisms everywhere? Does it, like, act as a magnifier and, like,

[01:35:35] James: well,

[01:35:35] catch fires

[01:35:36] Ka-Ce: on the landscape? If,

[01:35:38] James: I mean, yeah, those are important questions. Are does that ever happen? You know, inquiring minds want to know

[01:35:44] Ka-Ce: Exactly. I will say if you haven’t searched, like do Google search, do TikTok search, but like look up artists who have like. Draw and painted, you know, glass castles, they have done [01:36:00] phenomenal job stuff that my mind just couldn’t wrap around, but I still like, I’m very like, how does this work architecturally?

[01:36:08] Like, do you have a lot of glass blowers sitting there, like trying to form glass castle

[01:36:15] James: that. Yeah,

[01:36:19] Ka-Ce: I know the weird things to focus on while we’re reading. So Celaena and Dorian do get into a conversation and she discusses her suspicions about her betrayal that led to her capture and her time in Endovier. It’s still clear, or it’s clear that she’s still grappling with the events that led to her capture.

[01:36:43] How do you think her trust or her lack of it will influence her relationships with, you know, Chaol and Dorian, like, moving forward? I

[01:36:55] James: I mean, at this point it, there is no trust at this [01:37:00] point. And there’s no basis for trust at this point, other than the fact that, you know, neither one of them has killed her. And I think she takes that as a kind of like, you know, well, they’re tolerating me. So I could be a little mouthy and that could be a little, you know, you know, the prince is not very reactionary.

[01:37:23] Like a lot of, you know, royal people would be like, you know, you say one wrong thing and they’re like, yeah, okay, off with you’re head.. Like he kind of engages her a little bit. You know, she, she enjoys, but I, at this point, I still, there’s no basis for trust yet and as far as she’s concerned, there never will be. I don’t think she plans to trust anybody.

[01:37:49] She’s in this for herself. She’s going to do her thing, do the agreement and get out. And she’ll be, you know, she’ll be 22, [01:38:00] 23, by the time she’s done with her service for the King, right? Four years. If it’s, you know, true.

[01:38:07] Ka-Ce: like 22, 23.

[01:38:08] James: So that’s, you know, her focus is I don’t have time for Like, on one hand she’s like, She wants to engage with people, but on the other hand, she’s like, I don’t have time for this.

[01:38:20] I need to focus on this and I will deal with you, but we are not going to be, it’s like, I’ll deal with you, but we’re not friends. And you have then like Chaol who’s like, yeah, I know we’re not friends.

[01:38:38] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:38:38] I’m here to watch you and train you. And that’s basically it. Don’t screw it up, like,

[01:38:46] Yeah.

[01:38:48] James: you know, but

[01:38:49] I feel

[01:38:49] Ka-Ce: like, oh, sorry, go ahead.

[01:38:51] James: I was just going to say, you know, because she is hopeful,

[01:38:55] Which we’ve seen her character be hopeful, even in these early chapters,

[01:38:59] Ka-Ce: [01:39:00] Yeah.

[01:39:01] James: I think that her character wants to have somebody to trust, even though she constantly says otherwise,

[01:39:08] I think she wants that she wants somebody to have her back, which we learned about, you know, In her past

[01:39:16] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:39:17] James: person that she, you know, people, she was close to she wants somebody to be there, but can she get there is kind of a question.

[01:39:26] Like,

[01:39:27] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:39:29] James: plus she doesn’t know these people. She’s known them for what? Two weeks, they pulled her out of a pit

[01:39:35] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:39:36] James: and then made her, you know, travel for two weeks through crappy weather. Like these are not friendly people at this point. Like,

[01:39:46] Ka-Ce: Yeah. She does open up to Chaol about her time in Endovier. You know, they cut her hair, gave her rags, put a pick pickaxe in her hand, as if she knew what to do with [01:40:00] it. Chained her to the others, she endured her whippings, the Overseers rubbed salt into her open wounds, the salt that she mined, mind you, they rubbed into her open wounds.

[01:40:13] They whipped her often enough that the gashes never really closed. And it was the prisoners from Eyllwe that stayed up with her and helped her clean her wounds so that they didn’t become infected. And after relaying all of this to Chaol, he doesn’t say anything further to her until the next day.

[01:40:31] James: That was something I didn’t understand about that was they were told not to kill her, right?

[01:40:37] Ka-Ce: Correct.

[01:40:39] James: They did this knowing full well

[01:40:42] Ka-Ce: she

[01:40:43] James: that the infections could kill her.

[01:40:46] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:40:46] James: And so what was the plan? Like, Oh, she got an infection and she died. It wasn’t our fault. Like, again, these guards, they’re not smart at like, they think they’re pulling this great like, [01:41:00] like, Oh, we can’t whip her to death.

[01:41:02] And we can’t like stab her to death, but you know, maybe we can infection her to death, like, you know,

[01:41:12] Ka-Ce: I mean, does salt work as a purifier? I know it’d be irritating and burn as hell, you know, being rubbed into an open wound and doing that over and over, but Like, ceremonially, I know salt is a purifier. Salt circle, salt outside of the house, but does it For your body, does it also work as a purifier, or is it just an irritant?

[01:41:39] James: I don’t know, actually, would rubbing salt into your wounds help keep them from getting infected or would it cause you more? Damn it. That’s a good question. I don’t know the answer to that.

[01:41:52] Ka-Ce: I don’t either. It’s just something that popped in my head,

[01:41:54] James: So, so maybe, you know, maybe you’re right. Maybe that wasn’t. So maybe that was their way of [01:42:00] knowing that they could torture her as much as they wanted without. Without it killing her, because the salt would be a a cleanser of of sorts. Maybe. That could be.

[01:42:16] Ka-Ce: Like, I can see, you know, sleeping on the hard, dirty floor, not being able to bathe, that sort of thing. That’s how wounds get infected. Plus, you know, the dust from the mines and everything. You’re reopening the wounds. But, yeah, I don’t know what the benefits or non benefits of salt would be. That would be a great thing to look up.

[01:42:38] But I just found, okay, so I’m an introvert and I’m socially awkward at times. I kind of, like, felt for Chaol, like, he just learned this horrific thing, you know, things that she went through, and he doesn’t say anything further to her until the next day. Like, what do you say to a [01:43:00] person that opened up to you and said, yeah, this is all the sh*t I went through, of course it was horrible, but also at the same time, like, could you say to a person that’s been through all of that, other than, like, I’m sorry? I know, part of me kind of wished that he would have said something to her at that point after she opened up. But I also get not having something to say either? I don’t know.

[01:43:31] James: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what would you even say at that point? Oh, that sucks. Okay. Good night.

[01:43:38] Ka-Ce: Yeah, I mean, I guess that makes it kind of worse than not saying anything at all.

[01:43:44] James: Man. Sucks to be you. Good night. All right. I don’t know. I would like to think he literally just didn’t know what to say and he was just like anything I say at this point is just going to make it worse.[01:44:00]

[01:44:00] Ka-Ce: yeah.

[01:44:02] James: All right, later. on a side note, I looked it up and apparently salt draws water out of bacterial cells.

[01:44:13] So rubbing salt into a wound will keep it from getting infected.

[01:44:18] Ka-Ce: We’ll see. We learned something new.

[01:44:21] James: so it was literally advanced torture. Because if they were whipping her and keeping her wounds open, And then putting the salt on so that they wouldn’t get infected a, that hurts like hell because salt burns on open wounds, but it was keeping it from getting infected.

[01:44:39] And then they were whipping it and reopening the wounds and just doing it over and over. Imagine going through that over and over for a year.

[01:44:48] Ka-Ce: Ugh.

[01:44:48] James: At that point, you’re probably hoping for death, right? And you’re not going to get it because they’ve become very creative in their way of torture.

[01:44:57] Ka-Ce: Yeah,

[01:44:58] James: So. [01:45:00] Yeah.

[01:45:02] Ka-Ce: oh my god. Well, that leads us to the final part, at least for me, of this chapter is Celaena has nightmares about Endovier, and who wouldn’t, right? And these offer a window into her trauma. You know, she woke up from this nightmare that she was in one of the mass graves at Endovier. They didn’t have separate burials for each slave that died.

[01:45:28] They just tossed them all into a mass grave and she dreamt that she was in that mass grave trying to claw her way out. That’s hella traumatic, like, besides the whipping, besides, you know, no sunlight, no companionship, malnourishment, everything, like, oh, PTSD for years.

[01:45:53] James: Yeah. And I mean, and we do see that throughout the story of her dealing with [01:46:00] this recurring theme of betrayal and nightmares and just her. Managing those feelings and also trying to ignore them to largely like any good millennial she’s like feelings. What? I don’t have those. I’m fine.

[01:46:24] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:46:26] James: But, you know, it gives a good glimpse into her character that as strong as she is, she’s still human.

[01:46:33] Like, you know, she’s going to be fighting these things for a while.

[01:46:40] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:46:41] James: As she comes to terms with leaving one crappy situation and finding yourself into a new kind of better, but still crappy situation. Like

[01:46:55] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:46:56] James: It is better. I think it is [01:47:00] better. Anything’s better than the mines.

[01:47:03] Ka-Ce: Yeah, I mean, at least now she has some freedom, even if she is heavily watched and heavily guarded, at least she has a chance to earn her freedom. She’s not shackled. She’s not having to work in the salt mines.

[01:47:18] James: Yeah.

[01:47:19] Ka-Ce: She’s going to get regular meals now, you know. So it is a step up, I would say.

[01:47:26] James: Yeah. So at this point, you know, there’s the first six chapters of the book, right? At this point, had you made any like precursor guess guesses on the characters, like, not counting Celaena because she is the lead, right? So we know that we’re going through this journey with her but in terms of like, Dorian or Chaol were you leaning one way or the other in terms of like, did you think that one of them was going to be more of a good guy, more of a bad guy, more of a neutral, [01:48:00] he’s in it for himself,

[01:48:02] Initial, like, you know, initially I was like, oh, Chaol comes in and he’s a dick, like, because, But by the end of chapter six, I didn’t feel that way anymore.

[01:48:11] I felt he was dickish because he’s still being very standoffish,

[01:48:19] But at the same time, you know, he has to like. He’s a guard. She’s an assassin. He’s not there to make friends. You know, and at this point I’m still was very much on the fence about Dorian. I couldn’t make any sort of judgment call on if I thought he was going to be like a standard like douchebag prince or, you know, is he playing a bigger game or like very much on the fence

[01:48:51] Ka-Ce: I was also pretty much on the fence about Prince Dorian because we have some interactions with him and Celaena leading up to this point. But [01:49:00] during the travels, you know, he rode ahead with Duke Perrington, so we didn’t get as much interaction between him and Celaena. We got more of the interaction between Chaol and Celaena.

[01:49:11] And still up to this point, I was still thinking this Chaol guy is such a douche. Like, there’s more Celaena’s story. You know, yes, she was an assassin. Yes, something happened. I understand that he views her as a criminal, but like, my god, dude, get that stick up your get that stick out of your ass, you know? But I think it was also written in a way that you’re feeling. sympathetic towards Celaena and we’re not seeing Chaol’s point of view of it. You know, you have to remember that he is the captain of the guard. He has to be on guard. He has to protect the prince. So yes, he has his reasons for maintaining his distance.

[01:49:56] But at this point, [01:50:00] like I was still trying to figure out whether I liked either the prince or Chaol. Duke Perrington right off the bat hated him. Like,

[01:50:13] James: same. I immediately from his interaction in the beginning, I tagged him as a bad guy.

[01:50:18] Ka-Ce: Yeah, and I think he is written that way on purpose even though they don’t get much interaction, you know, other than when he threw her to the ground and everything. He was certainly made to read that way

[01:50:33] James: yeah, definitely.

[01:50:36] Ka-Ce: but yeah. So do you have any favorite moments, quotes, or theories, you know, from the first six chapters?

[01:50:47] James: Mmm, the first six chapters, I hadn’t really worked out any theories yet. There’s not really enough information to go on yet. I think when I got farther, the [01:51:00] next batch, that was when I start working out like, Oh, maybe this, or maybe that, or, but at this point at this point, no, I hadn’t really figured out any real plans.

[01:51:10] Ideas where the story was going.

[01:51:13] Ka-Ce: Okay. Yeah.

[01:51:15] James: it’s still very much, you know, introductory. Like, these are the characters. It’s very much the setup. Like, but it was enough, like, to keep me hooked. And, you know, wanting to see where it was going, for sure. Because,

[01:51:27] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:51:28] James: The setup was, is good. And it did get me interested in the characters.

[01:51:33] And yeah. And the competition, you know, curious about, you know, where all that’s going. And

[01:51:39] Ka-Ce: How it’s gonna play out.

[01:51:40] James: Yeah.

[01:51:42] Ka-Ce: I think my favorite quote in these chapters is Celaena’s mantra, her, I will not be afraid. You know, it, it just, those five, five words they’re powerful and like you said, they are a mantra, it’s something that she can tell herself [01:52:00] over and over to help her deal with hard and scary situations that she’s been in and now, and that she is now confronting, I also love that Celaena is thinking of how she could get free or take on someone, like, through all of these chapters. Like, every single chapter, she’s like, and this is how I would take this person out, and this is how I would attempt to get free. Her mind is just constantly working. And I feel like, even though she was a slave for a year her skills and her mindset have not slipped.

[01:52:35] She’s always looking for the advantage in each situation that she is in. I think that hearkens back to her training all those years, but it also feels like a trauma response too.

[01:52:49] James: Oh for sure.

[01:52:51] I just imagined her like going up to like everybody, you know, each person is kind of walking up and being like, I [01:53:00] could take you and just having the other person sitting there like,

[01:53:10] Ka-Ce: what you talking about?

[01:53:11] James: and there’s her walk away, like,

[01:53:15] Ka-Ce: I just, I imagine her like looking you up and down like this slow, like, you know, And be like, and these are your weak points, and then just, that’s it. Just, she could just eye you and know like, where to target

[01:53:29] James: And you’re just sitting there like, that wasn’t very nice. Like,

[01:53:37] Ka-Ce: Kill to have those skills though. My goodness.

[01:53:40] James: yeah, right.

[01:53:41] Ka-Ce: Just for fun. Since you are such a coffee guy and you love making the coffees and everything. How do you think Celaena, Chaol, and Dorian would take their coffee?

[01:53:55] James: I go back and forth on, I definitely think that Dorian [01:54:00] is a a foo-foo coffee guy like me. You know, I like my, okay, child, you’re,

[01:54:08] Ka-Ce: Sorry everyone, the shakiness is our cat Willow.

[01:54:13] James: she’s cleaning herself right off camera over here. Okay. Now she’s laying down. I feel like. Like Dorian is the guy who like, he would take a pour over with just some creamer in it, if that’s what you gave him, but if you gave him the option, he would love the espresso with the, like the handmade syrup and the frothed up, you know,

[01:54:37] Ka-Ce: Cold foam

[01:54:38] James: and the cold foam and the drizzle and like, but he would never admit it, but that would be his drink and he would love it.

[01:54:48] But see, I also kind of feel that way about Chaol too. Like, I feel like he’s the kind of person who’s like, Oh yeah, I just drink my coffee, you know, just give it to me black, you know, when he’s in front of, [01:55:00] but like, if he’s in his own quarters, he’s like, creamer and that you know, like,

[01:55:07] Ka-Ce: I don’t know, like, I feel the same way about Chaol. Like, he says in front of everybody, he takes it dark, no sugar, no creamer. But when he’s by himself, it’s not so much a foo-foo coffee, but he does dunk,

[01:55:18] James: yeah, that’s like, it’s black in front of everybody, but when he’s in his room, it’s more of that milky, like,

[01:55:26] Ka-Ce: I take my creamer with a shot of coffee, sort of,

[01:55:28] James: yeah. And Celaena I don’t know if she would even really be a coffee drinker. I

[01:55:35] Ka-Ce: I peg her as a PSL girl through and through. Like, I feel like PSL would just be right up her alley.

[01:55:42] I

[01:55:42] James: mean, I guess if, yeah, if it was like a major foo-foo drink, maybe. Yeah, but definitely not not a standard, like, pot of coffee. You know, pot coffee, drip coffee, or even like an espresso. I don’t think she would be down for those things. Like,

[01:55:59] Ka-Ce: I I [01:56:00] peg her for a big hot chocolate girl, like the decadent hot chocolates, like the kind you see on TikTok of like in France or even,

[01:56:09] James: like the chocolate bar on top. And like,

[01:56:12] Ka-Ce: huh, or Edinburgh where they have the specialty hot chocolate shops and it’s like marshmallows and whipped cream and chocolate shavings. I, that, I feel like that would be her jam.

[01:56:22] James: I could see that. That, that could make sense. So on that note that was the first six chapters of Throne of Glass. And you guys, you know, you let us know if you like this format. I think we went. Close to two hours. So, let us know if that’s good, you know, did we maintain your interest?

[01:56:48] Should we be a little more concise with our chapters? I’ll try to ramble less. Sorry. It’s a sickness. What can I say?

[01:56:56] Ka-Ce: We just really love our books. What can we say?

[01:56:59] James: Yeah, well, and [01:57:00] tangents, I go off on tangents, like, you know, but let us know, I don’t think all of these are going to be this long we’re still feeling out, you know, our format, seeing how this is going to work and yeah, so, it’s the, at the end of the episode, we want to, once again, want to just give a shout out to our friend who runs K911 ResQ. They’re a rescue that’s devoted to dogs and cats that no one wants.

[01:57:28] They, the broken, defective, and depressed, they focus on senior, homeless, handicapped all the fur babies that get overlooked. Chris and Sabrina work really hard to get to the shelters and rescue as much as they can. And yeah, they are great people. And they’re always looking, you know, for help to try and get as many of them out as possible, but they need help with fosters and donations and just [01:58:00] all the stuff that comes with running a rescue, you know, a nonprofit rescue.

[01:58:03] They do all of this from the money that they make. You know, with their regular jobs, this is not their regular job. They do this

[01:58:11] Ka-Ce: On the side.

[01:58:11] James: on top of having regular jobs. They both work full time. So, you can visit K911RESQ.COM K9, well, I’m going to put it on the screen, so I don’t need to spell it week what’s

[01:58:26] Ka-Ce: We will go into chapters 7 through 13. So hopefully you guys will tune in again as we summarize and talk about our favorite moments and deep dives into chapters 7 through 13. Please remember to like and rate this podcast, leave comments, and share with your friends and loved ones. Make sure to follow us on our social medias.

[01:58:49] We will be sharing our chaotic madness with our fur babies. our current reads, and more. Until then, happy reading, and we’ll see you next [01:59:00] time. Bye!

[01:59:02] James: See you later.