Ep 1 Fourth Wing: Ch 1 – 6

[00:00:21] James: Hello, and welcome back to books, cats, and chaos. The fun podcast where we talk about books, talk about cats, and talk about main characters who make dumb decisions. I am James.

[00:00:40] Ka-Ce: And I am Ka-Ce, and we are a husband and wife team who love all things books, cats, brews, and the fun chaos in between.

[00:00:49] James: Fun. Yes, that’s what we’re gonna call it.

[00:00:54] Ka-Ce: Mostly chaos.

[00:00:56] James: Yeah. How many piles of barf have you guys had to clean up today? Because I’ve had to clean up at least two.

[00:01:05] we are changing things up a little bit tonight, for our podcast, or today or whenever you’re listening to this. As you know, if you’ve been following along with us, we just finished Throne of Glass and We covered the first book, the bonus chapters, and, you know, that whole story’s under wraps. And so we’re going to be moving into, um, Crown of Midnight. But, we’ve decided also, now, at the same time, to tackle, uh, Fourth Wing. I was getting my book titles up, confused up in my head. Yeah! Um. What we’re going to be doing is on Tuesdays we will be continuing our Throne of Glass series because we’ve got [00:02:00] eight, eight books to get through.

[00:02:03] Ka-Ce: Seven now.

[00:02:04] James: well seven now, but, um, but I picked up a couple weeks ago, I picked up Fourth Wing just, just to see, just, I was like, eh, eh, let’s see. And I picked it up and I think I read it in like three days.

[00:02:21] Ka-Ce: Just admit it, you were jealous when I went to the midnight release party of Onyx Storm. You were feeling left out.

[00:02:26] James: I wouldn’t have understood it though.

[00:02:29] Ka-Ce: No, but

[00:02:31] James: Um,

[00:02:31] Ka-Ce: think you were still a little jealous.

[00:02:33] James: that was, uh, yeah, it only took me a couple days to get through that one, and now I’m on, um, Iron Storm, Iron

[00:02:41] Ka-Ce: Iron Flame.

[00:02:42] James: Iron Flame. See, I can’t keep these things straight. I am on Iron Flame, and working my way through that. So, we’re gonna start talking about those books now, too.

[00:02:52] And maybe by the time we get through now all three, maybe the fourth one will be coming along. Who knows? So, Tuesday’s Throne of Glass and Thursday’s will be Fourth Wing Empyrean series.

[00:03:10] Ka-Ce: Yes.

[00:03:11] James: And of course any in between book reviews that we do along the way for our one offs and thrift store finds and old books and just Stupid whatevers.

[00:03:26] Ka-Ce: So please make sure to have read Fourth Wing, um, or at least for this podcast of chapters one through six. It’s better if you’ve read the full book, but at least the first six chapters. and as much as I am dying to deep dive all things Fourth Wing, Iron Flame, and Onyx Storm right now with everybody, we have decided we’ll do it one book at a time.

[00:03:54] just because, like James mentioned, he is still reading Iron Flame. He hasn’t even gotten to Onyx Storm [00:04:00] yet, so don’t want to spoil anything for him. And we’ve had a couple friends who are starting the Fourth Wing journey, so we don’t want to spoil anything for them as well. So if you’re looking for overall theories to tie in together all three books, we will eventually get there.

[00:04:16] But right now, we’re concentrating on Fourth Wing. As a content reminder, this podcast is for adults only as we will be using adult language to discuss this book. this book does contain violence and sex and so much more because we are dealing with dragons. So make sure the little ones are not around.

[00:04:37] James: Yeah, this one is definitely not for the little ones. I mean, you thought Throne of Glass was bad. It’s not bad. This is, I mean, this is very much adult. I mean, I’ve read worse in terms of, um, people dying and, you know, I mean, I’m a horror connoisseur, so, you know, People get eviscerated and all that crap all the time, but this is this is heavy.

[00:05:03] I mean It’s a it’s a ride. I’ll tell you that So

[00:05:09] Ka-Ce: Yes, it is.

[00:05:12] James: If you haven’t already but you like what you hear so far Then please don’t forget to rate, subscribe, and or comment on this podcast on our website or on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, anywhere that you can find us. You can follow us and subscribe on Apple podcast and Spotify and maybe in the future something else.

[00:05:41] But for right now, for right now that spreads us pretty thin. So, let’s, uh, let’s get on with it. So candidates, strap on your boots and let’s cross the parapet.

[00:05:59] Ka-Ce: [00:06:00] Woo

[00:06:00] hoo!

[00:06:00] James: A dragon without its rider is a tragedy. A rider without its dragon is dead. Welcome to the Fourth Wing.

[00:06:11] Ka-Ce: All right, Violet Sorrengail has trained her whole life to be a scribe. However, her mother, General Lilith Sorrengail, informed her that she is to enter the Rider’s Quadrant on conscription day. There are four quadrants at Basgaith War College. Rider’s, scribes, healers, and infantry. As she makes her way to her mother’s office to say her goodbyes, she is greeted by Mira’s voice arguing with their mom.

[00:06:35] Lilith is not going to budge on this, and off to the Rider’s Quadrant, Violet has to go. Mira dresses her sister in leathers, braids her hair around her head, and repacks her rucksack, taking out a lot of books that Mira finds useless. While waiting to cross the parapet, Violet meets Dylan and Rhiannon, The later whom she notes reminds her of Amari, the Queen of the Gods.

[00:06:59] So, keep, tag this in your reads, um, that stuff will come up later. As they get closer, Violet has Rhiannon switch a boot with her, once realizing Rhiannon’s boots are slick and not made for gripping. Dylan has a ring on him that he wants to propose with after graduation for his girl back at home, but first he must cross the parapet to become a

[00:07:23] cadet. At the same time, Vi takes notes of the three riders at the top of the turret, but one of them is the most exquisite man she has ever seen. But hold that thought. Xaden, this most exquisite man, realizes she’s a Sorrengail, and she happens to realize that he’s a Riorson. They get into a heated staring competition.

[00:07:44] Ri steps up, wanting to make sure that Vi is okay, and that’s when Xaden notices their mix match boots. Dylan screams pierce the air as he slips, and sadly he loses his grip and falls off the parapet to his death. Xaden never [00:08:00] takes his eyes off of Violet as she watches Dylan fall to his death and then lets her know it’s her turn. So, I’ve read this a couple times, especially in preparation for Onyx Storm, but you just picked this up, and what was your first initial reactions to Chapter 1?

[00:08:23] James: There was a lot that was going on in chapter one. Um, you know, we learn that Violet trained her whole life to be a scribe. And we learn more about these different quadrants later, you know, as we go through the books, but you get the idea right off the bat that the scribes are non action seeing, um, you know, they’re the intelligence part, right?

[00:08:48] If you were to put it in kind of today’s, uh, today’s term standard, right? very far away from the battles, very far away from the dragons, just, you know, cozy up in your, wherever it is that they go, and that’s it. her father was a scribe, she was trained to be a scribe, and that is not what ended up happening. so as we go through, of course, we find out that, um, her father died, and her mother said, decided, you’re not going to be a scribe. Despite the fact that you’ve trained for this, you’re going to be, um, in the rider’s quadrant and you don’t get a choice. And that’s where Mira and her arguing comes in because Mira has gone through this already and she’s already a ranking, uh,

[00:09:44] Ka-Ce: She’s a lieutenant

[00:09:45] James: right?

[00:09:45] Yeah. And, and Violet got six months of training and boot camp before, to train for this, parapet thing, right? Most of these people that she’s up there with have been training for this since they were like five,[00:10:00]

[00:10:00] Ka-Ce: I think more like 12,

[00:10:02] James: well,

[00:10:03] Ka-Ce: but yeah, for most of their life.

[00:10:05] James: I think some of them had said that they’d been training. Oh, no, that was the one person, um, you know, so she’s already way out of her element because she’s not trained for this.

[00:10:18] And then, of course, we come to find out that she is, she has body issues. Her bones pop out of a socket, like, super easy. She’s weak. And, She’s got no endurance. She’s got, know, everything that you’re looking for in a person to cross the parapet, she doesn’t have. and then of course, we’ve got The whole scene where, you know, you meet some people, they meet, Rhiannon, they meet Dylan, and then you get a little backstory on Dylan, and then Dylan dies, and you’re like, What the hell?

[00:11:00] Ka-Ce: I know, it was so, like, for just meeting Dylan, it was so gut wrenching. Like, why, why all this backstory and then you just kill him off right in the first

[00:11:10] James: Dude didn’t stand a chance. Like, I mean, that was messed up. And, and so the first chapter just, it really just Out the gate, like, gets you going, just, you know, and you immediately get a sense of what this, uh, whole world, or at least this part of the world, is about. It’s about survival, and there is no forgiveness.

[00:11:37] Ka-Ce: It’s very cutthroat

[00:11:39] James: Yeah.

[00:11:40] Ka-Ce: from the beginning.

[00:11:42] James: I mean, yeah, from the gate, like, no one’s there to help you. Yeah.

[00:11:46] Ka-Ce: Nope. Yeah, you learn later, um, you actually learn in Iron Flame that the riders that are up at the turret taking the roll, you know, as the candidates are coming in and stuff, [00:12:00] they’re they’re told, you cannot help these candidates, you can’t offer advice, you can only ask them their name and tell them when to go, sort of thing.

[00:12:09] Um, so, I mean,

[00:12:13] James: And checkmark that for later because that’s a, that’s a whole thing to,

[00:12:18] Ka-Ce: but I want to know, what is General Sorrengail’s whole thought process? She knows that her daughter has these physical ailments and why did she wait until like six months before her daughter is supposed to enter the quadrants to be like, alright, you finished your scribe training? Now you have six months to train.

[00:12:42] Whereas Mira and Brennan, her two older siblings, they trained almost their whole life. and they still had to fight their way through Rider’s, Quadrant. So, like, do you think she was setting Violet up to die, or did you believe, or did she really believe that Violet could succeed despite minimal training?

[00:13:03] I mean, she does mention to Mira that Violet deals with more pain before lunch, before more than, like, Mira does in an entire week. But I still feel like that’s not enough of a reason.

[00:13:22] James: I mean, there’s one, there’s, you know, there’s something to be said about being able to handle, uh, to be able to handle pain. Right. And you wake up and you’re like, Oh yeah, I’m no stranger to pain. I hurt every freaking day. but she’s going into a situation where, I mean, somebody smacks her the wrong way. That’s different than waking up in pain because you can manage that dull, thudding pain of your body that you’re familiar with. But when somebody who’s twice your size comes up and smacks you in the shoulder and dislocates your arm because your body is [00:14:00] whack. She’s not prepared for that. She’s not trained for that.

[00:14:04] That’s a completely different, uh, level of interaction and pain than she would even expect. I mean, she would never get that in the scribe quarters quadrant, you know.

[00:14:19] Ka-Ce: I mean, maybe books falling off shelves or something.

[00:14:23] James: But see, that’s probably something she’s used to.

[00:14:26] Ka-Ce: True.

[00:14:27] James: can manage that.

[00:14:28] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:14:30] James: being only a chapter in it’s, you can’t really make a lot of guesstimates on the why’s or the what’s at this point. We’re just looking at her, at her mom. And we’re like, what the hell is wrong with you lady? Cause this is

[00:14:44] Ka-Ce: a hard ass right out the

[00:14:45] James: is, you think this is a good idea to send your, you know, I mean, she’s basically disabled kind of like she can do everything on her own.

[00:14:59] But her body is weak. Right? Which is, I mean, that is a disability for a lot of people. A lot of people deal with that in, in, in life. You know? Your constitution is just not high enough to deal with things that regular people deal with. You know? Most people run into the corner of a, of a, um, a door or whatever and they go, Ah, dang it.

[00:15:27] Some people run into the corner of a door and they’re bruised for, you know, three weeks. Because that’s kind of how I imagine her is just her body is just not built for

[00:15:40] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:15:41] James: that stuff. So trying to understand what her mom is like. Like

[00:15:48] Ka-Ce: What the thought process there

[00:15:49] James: it seems like a vendetta

[00:15:51] Ka-Ce: Mm.

[00:15:52] James: or on the complete opposite side. I could see it maybe being like, your father babied [00:16:00] you, and we are a family of riders, and now that he’s not here, um, we’re doing it my way.

[00:16:08] And I survived, your sister survived, and your brother survived, you know, the parapet and the training. You’ll be fine. And maybe it’s her mother has just this overwhelming belief that because she’s a Sorrengail that she’ll be fine. But being a Sorrengail also puts her at more of a risk because, as we find out, people do not like Lilith Sorrengail.

[00:16:35] So, yeah. You know, and of course, what’s this first challenge that they gotta cross, right? This thing called the Parapet. Which is basically just a really thin stone bridge.

[00:16:50] Ka-Ce: Yep. With no railings. Just

[00:16:57] James: Yeah.

[00:16:58] Ka-Ce: fall either side.

[00:17:02] James: So I know they described it. It’s about 18 inches wide. so basically a foot and a half wide. it’s 200 feet high. So if you fall off, you’re dead no matter what.

[00:17:13] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:17:13] James: it sounds like there’s nothing down there. Like you couldn’t maybe land on a tree or something and maybe survive. It’s just rocks.

[00:17:19] Like,

[00:17:20] Ka-Ce: No, it’s the river. There’s a river.

[00:17:24] James: Oh, is the river.

[00:17:25] Ka-Ce: There’s a river, but because you’re up so high

[00:17:29] James: I feel like somebody should have been able to survive that.

[00:17:33] Ka-Ce: I mean

[00:17:34] James: I have no sense of measurement. So 200 feet to me is like, how high is that? Is that two stories? Is that four stories? I mean, I watch videos of people who do the cliff diving into the, like, the lakes and stuff, and that’s pretty high.

[00:17:48] Ka-Ce: know if that’s 200 feet high

[00:17:49] James: Well, see, that’s why I don’t know. I mean, it could be 60 feet, in which case I’m like, ah, hell no. But anyway. [00:18:00] Um,

[00:18:00] Ka-Ce: it is uneven. It’s not like it’s a straight flat parapet. I mean, it’s made out of rocks and mortar and it’s been there for years and years. The mortar is, you know, falling apart and stuff. So it is, uh, it is dangerous. It’s not an easy challenge.

[00:18:21] James: No, as we find out, because a good, what, third of the cadets who try to go across this thing don’t make it.

[00:18:28] Ka-Ce: And it was made even more difficult this year because a storm rolled in. and so they were, not, not only do you have to deal with crossing the parapet, you’re dealing with wind and rain, the loose stuff, and any potential candidates who get it in their head that they want to like, toss you off. there are theories going around, because, um, we find out in the first chapter that Lilith’s signet ability that she gets from her dragon is the ability to wield storms.

[00:19:00] And so some people have theorized that the storms that came in on conscription day were brought in by Lilith. I don’t know. Do you have any thoughts on that?

[00:19:12] James: I don’t, it seems unlikely that she would do something to make it more difficult for everybody. Um, Yeah, I don’t know. I, you know, I could see where maybe if a storm was blowing in and she didn’t go out of her way to clear it out because that would be giving an unfair advantage and it’s just like this is a natural course of nature and I’m not getting involved, figure it out, live or die kind of thing.

[00:19:46] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:19:47] James: But bringing in a storm seems like it would also be interference. Like, unless the

[00:19:53] Ka-Ce: the storm was affected by her mood.

[00:19:55] I mean, she just, her daughters confronted her, and then now, [00:20:00] you know, she is still a mom. She is a general, but she is still a mom, and so she had to say goodbye to her youngest daughter, not knowing if her youngest is going to survive parapet or not. Mm hmm.

[00:20:12] I, you know. Its a little hard to talk about that without, you know.

[00:20:18] James: Spoiler stuff, because I’m thinking about a particular scene in Iron Flame.

[00:20:27] Ka-Ce: oh yeah, the beginning of Iron Flame.

[00:20:30] James: You know, and you’re like, oh, actually, the mood thing could be because she’s pissed. And it, and it does talk about the sky, like, so I’m, I don’t know, maybe, but can’t talk about that. That’s too spoilery, you know what I’m saying? So,

[00:20:50] Ka-Ce: You see how hard this is for

[00:20:51] James: no, I actually, I can see where you would like just want to plow through all three books and then just talk about all of them.

[00:20:58] Cause so much of it actually, yeah, kind of,

[00:21:03] Ka-Ce: So we’ll leave it here. I don’t think it’s ever been addressed officially, so we’ll leave it up to you guys. whether you think Lilith brought in this storm intentionally or unintentionally or what, but it is summer when they start conscription day. So, um,

[00:21:23] James: uh, yeah.

[00:21:25] Ka-Ce: so I know you are also fairly new to romantasy.

[00:21:29] You’re not new to fantasy, but romantasy is kind of more new for you. You have been reading TOG.

[00:21:36] I don’t know if, You picked up on this or not, but there’s this thing where usually in a romantasy, whether it’s the good guy or bad guy, you know, whatever, the female main character, when she describes a man as exquisite or beautiful or whatever and can’t seem to draw her eyes away, you almost [00:22:00] know instantly that that’s going to be the main love interest.

[00:22:05] James: Oh, I mean, yeah, that just makes sense.

[00:22:07] Ka-Ce: It’s like a dead giveaway.

[00:22:09] James: I mean,

[00:22:12] Ka-Ce: Did you feel that

[00:22:14] James: oh

[00:22:14] Ka-Ce: in this? I mean, you also, you also saw some spoilers, so.

[00:22:18] James: Well, yeah, but what’s a good girl without a bad boy? You know, . Yeah.

[00:22:22] Ka-Ce: Yeah,

[00:22:23] James: Although, as we’re kind of finding out she’s not that good of a girl, she’s a spitfire.

[00:22:30] Ka-Ce: Yeah,

[00:22:31] James: As we will, as we will find out.

[00:22:34] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:22:36] James: Um, and then of course we have, um, Yes, Xaden, uh, Riorson, is the one person that Mira said absolutely stay away from. And that is the absolute one person that she cannot seem to stay away from.

[00:22:57] Ka-Ce: Of course. We gotta love those tropes.

[00:23:02] James: the reason being is that if he knows who she is, he will attempt to probably kill her as soon as he can because, Xaden’s father was the one who killed their brother. And then, Lilith, the mother, In retaliation and punishment for that killed Xaden’s father. And so, you have already a blood feud between two people who have never even met. But that doesn’t matter. cause he’s beautiful and the girl got it bad. so there was a lot of, uh, Chapter one was, there was a lot going on, on chapter one, like they just throw you right in, just boom.

[00:23:51] Ka-Ce: Yep.

[00:23:52] James: And, but it was good. It was enjoyable. You know, I, I enjoyed the detail and the, and the setup of, you know, what to expect.

[00:23:59] Cause [00:24:00] it really did set up, um, the, uh, I don’t want to say. It did a good job at setting the pace for. The rest because it does it dumps you in and then it just goes, you know, and every once in a while, you know, there’s a little bit of a down where things are kind of not really, but, but then a couple of pages in boom,

[00:24:29] Ka-Ce: Something else

[00:24:29] James: something else happens.

[00:24:31] You know, somebody’s getting stabbed. Somebody’s getting, I mean, good Lord. So, we get into Chapter 2 with, uh, with Violet and it’s her turn to, go across the parapet. her mantra is, I will not die today. Much like Celaena slash Aelin’s mantra is, I will not be afraid from the Throne of Glass. So, we have these FMCs that are very much on the, um, The odds are against me, but I am just not today.

[00:25:13] Not today, Satan, not today.

[00:25:17] Ka-Ce: You went there.

[00:25:18] James: Uh, Rhi and Vi, Rhi and Vi, tell each other that they will meet on the other side of the parapet, Rhi begins her parapet journey. Vi tells the rider, taking roll, her name, just as thunder cracks above, the sound oddly comforting. And, again, like, is this, you know, something to do with her mom, or? There are so many things flowing around.

[00:25:52] And if you can’t, if you’re on any sort of social media, you can’t avoid all of it. I’ve been trying to avoid spoilers for [00:26:00] this stupid series. And there’s already things that I’ve found out on accident. And I’m just like, oh, damn it. But this, but this in particular, yeah, I don’t have any idea. We just know that Vi has always loved nights where storms beat against the window, illuminating and throwing shadows over the books that she’s curled up with.

[00:26:18] She is a, uh, book girly, just like Aelin. And yeah, I mean, it makes sense that she would want to go into that kind of work. And it makes sense also that, um, storms wouldn’t bother her because if her mom is somebody who can control stuff like that, she would have no reason to ever be afraid of storms. Because it would almost be like, oh, mom is nearby. Like, you know what I mean? Growing up with that, you would be comf I think you would be comforted by it.

[00:26:59] Ka-Ce: Yeah. Oh, definitely. I also think the whole, uh, as the thunder cracks above her. I think that’s just kind of Some foreshadowing you just, you don’t get until you reread the series.

[00:27:13] James: Oh, okay. Yeah, maybe I’ll catch it later. Um, so she’s crossing the parapet, and of course, we immediately have an issue. the asshole behind her, Jack Barlowe, is coming across the parapet, and So, so Rhi goes, and then Vi goes, and then behind her is a scrawny looking kid. And yeah,

[00:27:43] Ka-Ce: no. It Rhi goes, and when she’s almost done, Vi starts, and then it’s Jack Barlowe. But Jack stops and turns

[00:27:51] James: oh, that’s right. The scrawny kid. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah. Yeah. Jack is behind her, but then he [00:28:00] stops on the parapet as a scrawny kid comes up to him. And then Jack Barlowe throws him off, which again, I was just like, what the hell?

[00:28:09] Ka-Ce: Right?

[00:28:10] James: You’re like, well, we know who the one of the main antagonizer is going to be.

[00:28:15] Right. So, he throws the scrawny kid off, and then immediately turns around. And like starts running towards her across the parapet and I’m like, this is a dude who’s got no fear, right? Like he’s running. I mean, apparently like a foot and a half is, you know, it’s not like, like walking across a two by four, like a lot of the people on Instagram are doing.

[00:28:40] Ka-Ce: Okay, but we’re, we don’t have a real parapet to cross and

[00:28:44] James: it’s like, it’s like walking. If you guys can see, I mean, if you’re listening to this, you can’t see, but you know, I have my, my shelves on the wall here. That’s basically the size of the parapet, maybe. Add another 4 inches. So it’s not as narrow, but if you remember that it’s cobblestone, kind of, and it even says that when she’s walking, some of it crumbles underneath her, and she’s like, oh shit, like, you know, so it’s not the most sturdy, plus it’s slick with the rain, and it’s windy, so it’s not a walk through the park. But a person who is very confident and steady I could see where somebody would be like, Ha ha, this is easy, and starts just running across the, you know,

[00:29:33] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:29:34] James: Which is what he does to her, because as far as he, she’s next.

[00:29:39] Like,

[00:29:41] Ka-Ce: Yeah. For some reason he just has it out for her.

[00:29:45] James: you know, it’s, it’s funny because you can kind of relate to this when we, when we were in Ireland, And we were at the cliffs of, of, um, Moher? Moher? Moher? I don’t remember how to say that. [00:30:00] And the wind coming over those cliffs was so strong. And we weren’t even really there at like bad ish weather.

[00:30:09] I mean, it was foggy, but the wind wasn’t,

[00:30:12] Ka-Ce: We got a little bit of rain.

[00:30:14] James: um, but the wind has definitely been worse there where people can stand, you know, diagonally facing into the wind and

[00:30:23] Ka-Ce: hmm.

[00:30:25] James: So imagine that, but you’re on a foot and a half ledge

[00:30:31] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:30:32] James: you can’t crawl across it because the person behind you is going to be like, get the hell out of my way.

[00:30:38] Ka-Ce: Like, that, yeah, you’re being weak.

[00:30:40] James: And yeah, they

[00:30:41] Ka-Ce: be able to stand up and cross.

[00:30:44] James: so, you know, um, so to distract and calm herself, she, uh, starts to recite facts about the history of. Basically everything she’s learned as a scribe and, you know, that was something that I really did like because it was a nice way of introducing us to the lore of the world in a non, awkward way.

[00:31:12] Ka-Ce: yeah.

[00:31:12] James: She’s using her knowledge, that she learned as a scribe to calm herself down, put herself in the zone, and not focus on Everything else, and just one foot in front of the other. I was, you know, I liked that a lot. And at some point, she looks behind her, which ends up being a big mistake, because that costs you time. And I imagine turning around on the parapet would just be, like, dangerous. I, cause I personally have a tendency to lean when I turn. So I would be like, leaning. Big mistake. Jack throws the boy off of the thing. So, she turns, she stumbles, and falls, but she manages to pick herself back up and keep going. She [00:32:00] runs the last few feet and jumps into the waiting, uh,

[00:32:04] Ka-Ce: Turret.

[00:32:05] James: the, what did I want to say? The group of riders at the, I almost said pile of riders, the group of riders at the end. she lands, Jack lunges, tries to get her, misses, and then he skids to a halt because he’s still on the parapet because, what do you know, Vi has a dagger next to his balls.

[00:32:29] there’s a nice little, you know, exchange here where he’s like, I’m going to kill you. And she’s like, you’re welcome to try, but do you think you can kill me faster than I can,

[00:32:39] Ka-Ce: hmm.

[00:32:40] James: know, denut you? And that’s when, one of the other riders comes in and says, technically, um, she’s now a cadet. And Jack is not, because he’s still on the parapet.

[00:32:54] So she could actually kill him and suffer no repercussions.

[00:33:00] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:33:00] James: She doesn’t, because she’s being the bigger person. This is not a great introduction between, Violet and Jack. he’s got it out for her, he wants to kill her, and figures that he will do it at some point. They both move out of the way to let Violet other riders because, you know, they’re clogging up the system here.

[00:33:22] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:33:25] James: the whole chapter basically takes place over the parapet. you got a lot to kind of, uh, digest about, you know, this thing. And of course my initial thought was, I hate this thing. It’s the stupidest test ever.

[00:33:40] Okay. And I can say that because I have read through the entirety of the first book so far, and I’m a quarter of the way through the second book. But this is, any, any given moment, [00:34:00] a person, you know, perfectly good riders could be lost on this thing. Because they either, had an itch on their nose, or they didn’t get enough sleep, or they got distracted, or the rain, or the something.

[00:34:16] And they’re like, this is how we weed out the weak and whatever. No, this is freaking roulette. Okay? There’s, yes, there’s a little bit of skill involved with being able to walk across this thing. but I just, I can’t help but think about all of the, the really good warriors out there. that are lost on this thing because they just had a bad day.

[00:34:37] And, and that doesn’t make a person weak. If we read through the book, Violet should have died a half a dozen times. Because she is weak, and that’s the whole point. In some cases, she just gets freaking lucky. And that’s what this whole parapet thing is. They’re, they’re like, it’s the test to make sure you’re in it.

[00:35:02] No, no it’s not. It’s just a cruel version of roulette to weed out, not the weakest, but just to weed out the numbers. And I’m, I would bet you they’re doing it because of the, as we will find out later, the lowering number of the dragons. Because they already have more cadets than dragons.

[00:35:23] Ka-Ce: Willing to bond. There are a lot of

[00:35:26] James: Well, yeah, that’s what I mean. but if you had, you know, 90 percent of your cadets crossing, that creates a bigger problem than if only 60 percent of them get across. You know what I

[00:35:39] mean?

[00:35:39] Ka-Ce: Like, do you think that they should like install a net or something under the parapet and then Whatever candidates fall off, they can either try again next year or enroll in infantry or one of the other

[00:35:53] James: I mean, yeah, literally anything would be better than just letting them because so many of those [00:36:00] people were probably the Had brilliant, you know, just whatever. They’d be, maybe they’d be really good ground soldiers. Maybe they’d be really good, who knows? But the thing is, is that you’ll never know because they have this stupid test that is based purely on luck. And maybe a tiny bit of skill. But it’s really mostly luck.

[00:36:30]

[00:36:30] Ka-Ce: right before Violet crosses, or starts her journey on the parapet, Xaden tells her that she should get going because Jack’s right behind her and he’s being a shit, you know. Making fun of her that, you know, even a strong gust of wind is just going to blow her off and all this stuff. Do you think Xaden is warning her, like, you better start crossing now, or do you think he’s just doing his job?

[00:36:58] James: Uh, I mean at this point I think he’s probably just doing his job.

[00:37:03] Ka-Ce: Okay.

[00:37:04] James: Cause, I mean, even he says later that he still was undecided whether he was gonna kill her or not, like, once he figured, once he knew who she was,

[00:37:16] Ka-Ce: Yea.

[00:37:17] James: He was like, I could kill her..

[00:37:18] heh But

[00:37:20] maybe I won’t, but maybe I will, you know?

[00:37:24] Like, so I think he, because he’s a no nonsense, you know, kind of guy. Unless, I mean, I don’t know, I’ve got, I have my own ideas about things that, um, with some of the characters that I’m, I’m really, I’m hoping are going to kind of move into a certain, a certain way, and I really just don’t want to like spoil things for people who haven’t read it because unfortunately you can’t discuss theories without giving away why you think that theory, [00:38:00] right?

[00:38:00] Like.

[00:38:02] So. I will have to talk to you about it later.

[00:38:04] Cause

[00:38:06] Ka-Ce: well, yeah, later, later. So take a note of this somewhere, listeners, husband. We’ll come back to this question later. All right. So chapter three, Rhiannon spins Vi around and both are happy that they made it, but Violet is instantly weary. Can she trust Rhiannon now that they’re both cadets? Because this is a very cutthroat.

[00:38:32] quadrant. Violet is also feeling suddenly really nauseous and her muscles are trembling because I mean near death experience.

[00:38:42] James: Yeah.

[00:38:45] Ka-Ce: Rihanna points out that they need to swap their boots, back and they’re discussing that, like, where should we go and do this? When they run into Violet’s childhood friend, Dain.

[00:38:56] They switch boots and Dain tells Rhiannon that he’s a squad leader and to find another rider so that Rhiannon can add both her and Violet’s names to his squad section. Dain then helps Violet sneak away to his room so she can rebind her knee and as she’s rebinding her knee they catch up, you know, because she hasn’t seen him in over a year and they kind of start flirting with each other a little bit. Dain confronts Violet as to why she’s there and not in the scribe quadrant. He then tries to sneak her into the scribe quadrant and she rightfully gets mad. Like fucking hell, she just crossed the parapet and survived Jack Barlowe.

[00:39:36] Like, what the fuck. They argue before heading back to the alcove. Dain goes one way, Violet goes another way so they’re not being seen together, and Violet finds Rhiannon in the courtyard and meets another cadet, Tara. After everyone finishes crossing the parapet, Commandant Pancheck gives a welcoming speech.

[00:39:57] Then squads and sections are given, [00:40:00] calling all the new cadets into their new squads and formations. Rhi and Vi again are called into Dain’s squad, and after everything is settled, Xaden manages to swap Dain’s squad with Aura Beinhaven’s squad into Xaden’s wing, the Fourth Wing, and hence the name of our book, if you didn’t catch that.

[00:40:21] Xaden then makes a speech, everyone cheering and getting riled up, but Xaden’s eyes keep finding Violet’s throughout his speech. The dragons come and perch behind the leaders. One cadet runs screaming. He’s incinerated by one of the red dragons. Violet faces front and tells herself if anybody else runs, she does not want to watch.

[00:40:45] And sure enough, two more cadets go running and screaming and they are also burned to ash. The navy blue dragon, that has also come to land, seems to tilt its head at Violet, studying her as if it can see right through her. Violet squares her shoulders and lifts her chin. The dragon blinks, which might be a sign of approval or boredom, and looks away.

[00:41:09] Xaden finishes his speech. one of the things that I picked up on this was Tara, one of the cadets, is whispering to Vi and Rhiannon when Commandant, Panchek, is giving his little spiel and says that he sees this current job as a stepping stone. Because he actually wants General Lilith Sorrengail’s job.

[00:41:33] and then later he wants General Melgren’s job. And I had forgotten this fact while reading Onyx Storm. in the grand scheme of things, this is just like one of the, pfft, whatever. And it makes sense now. as Violet is thinking about this, he could never have General Melgren’s position.

[00:41:54] we learn that Melgren’s signet allows him the ability to see a battle’s outcome before it happens. Which [00:42:00] is kind of a cool signet, but yeah, as a general, like, nobody could ever take that from you.

[00:42:06] James: yeah, every general wants to know the outcome of a battle. Like, you’re invaluable at that point. Yeah.

[00:42:13] Ka-Ce: Yeah. Yeah. we don’t actually learn what Panchek’s signet is at this chapter, but it was just kind of a interesting little nugget of information right there. that somebody, like a cadet, would know this. About one of their higher leading,

[00:42:31] James: Oh.

[00:42:32] Ka-Ce: officers and stuff. Um, and I mean, yeah, you know, more, some people are more, uh, What’s the word I’m looking for?

[00:42:40] They want to climb the ranks more than others. So that, that would make sense.

[00:42:46] James: yeah, and I mean it’s not like, other than a handful of people, nobody really goes to the effort to hide what their signet is,

[00:42:55] Ka-Ce: Mm hmm.

[00:42:55] James: um, which we’ll learn obviously later that there are a couple of things that, that are classified because of the nature of their signet and you don’t want that information getting out, um. And I guess, you know, maybe if, uh, if this cadet had something, maybe they had a relative that came before them and was like, Oh man, this guy, this general, like he knows what’s going to happen. And so we don’t go to battle if we’re going to lose. And if we’re going to win, then we do, you know, you could learn that from literally anywhere.

[00:43:29] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[00:43:30] James: Um, I, I do know, so … re I agree with, with your note here. Yes. (laughs) Um, but I had a …. Okay Rereading this as we’re talking about it. I did have this thought that I hadn’t thought about but as I’m reading Iron Flame um…. Now we’re reading it. Yes, it does seem suspicious that the squads are being moved [00:44:00] around as much as they are and and for what purpose and Initially, you know, yeah, my idea was, oh, Xaden is trying to keep an eye on her because, you know, she’s the youngest and how do you harm your, you know, how do you really gut your enemy? Mmm, kill their youngest child.

[00:44:20] Like that’s a perfect..

[00:44:22] Ka-Ce: How do you do that? You move them closer to you

[00:44:25] James: To where, yeah, to where you can see them all the time. as I’m reading it farther into the book now, I’m like, See, and that, and see, and this is leading into my other thoughts that I, that I cannot share in here because we are trying very hard to make this a spoiler free experience, for first time readers.

[00:44:49] You know, not everybody does that, but that’s why we’re trying to make our podcast a little different from, from, um, um, Typical, you know, uh, discussions because we want you guys to enjoy the journey and to actually read the books and it’s very hard to keep the spoiler. That is a problem when you read really far ahead.

[00:45:11] It makes the spoiler stuff hard to avoid because I do definitely have some thoughts.

[00:45:18] Ka-Ce: have thoughts and feelings.

[00:45:20] James: I have thoughts. I have thoughts about the interactions between, uh, certain characters that I have not been super on board with. and now I’m re looking at those people thinking, were you, and you did the, and all, is, okay. You know, so, uh, yes, definitely. Definitely. I’m to have revisit these theories when we get to the,

[00:45:53] Ka-Ce: mm hmm.

[00:45:53] James: uh, at some point. I don’t know. I don’t know how to approach this without.

[00:45:59] Ka-Ce: [00:46:00] Basically, it, when you first read this, this chapter, it seems very menacing that, and suspicious, that Xaden looks over the squads and he’s like, oh, that’s where Violet is. Alright, now you’re switching there and you’re switching there. He has direct access, as a wing leader, to Violet’s squad, because now that squad is in, within his section.

[00:46:22] that was like an oh shit thing. And I highly encourage you, again, if you tab your books, tab this and come back to it later. Cause we will discuss this again later once you get farther along.

[00:46:38] James: Maybe um, maybe that’s what we need to start a, a Patreon where we can just talk about the spoilers and just be like, look, if you guys don’t want spoilers, listen to this. If you don’t care about possible spoilers and theories and all that other kind of crap, Go to the Patreon. Maybe. We’re gonna talk about this and see about getting this set up because there are just

[00:47:01] Ka-Ce: You are so wrapped up in this world and I love it

[00:47:03] James: I could be, I could be so off base with the things that I’m thinking of. just, you just don’t know and that’s the thing.

[00:47:15] Ka-Ce: Get through Iron Flame first, and then we’ll talk.

[00:47:17] James: Yeah,

[00:47:18]

[00:47:18] Ka-Ce: I love that So, everybody there in the Riders Quadrant, all the cadets that survived Parapet, are there because they want to be dragon riders. And yet, you still get this element of them being afraid of the dragons. Which, to me, is super realistic. some them, they’re seeing dragons for the first time, like, yeah, I want to be a dragon rider.

[00:47:39] And then it’s like, oh shit, this is what a dragon actually looks and sounds like.

[00:47:44] James: Cuz they are freakin huge.

[00:47:46] Ka-Ce: Yes. And then for some others like Violet, they’ve only seen dragons at a distance, you know, because her mom’s a dragon rider, you know, so she’s. obviously familiar, but this is the first time Violet herself too is up close [00:48:00] and personal with some of these dragons.

[00:48:02] some run, some get sick, some piss on themselves. as a child, like one of my first interactions with the dragon was watching Sleeping Beauty with Maleficent turning herself into a badass dragon. and then later reading Dragonlance and in Dragonlance, all the heroes and stuff, all of the people.

[00:48:19] are afraid of the dragons when they first see the dragons and it takes Like a little while getting used to the dragons before anybody’s actually able to ride dragons So I kind of like that. This reminded me of that. It reminded me of my Dragonlance era days

[00:48:38] James: Wasn’t there a thing, in, this is going off into the weeds a little bit. Wasnt there a thing in DragonLance, maybe I’m remembering this wrong. That dragons had a natural “fear aura” around them so that The expectation was that when a human viewed them, they would be afraid because of the magic, like, that was involved with a magical creature.

[00:49:08] Ka-Ce: I actually don’t remember it’s been so long. So i’m need to do a reread at least on the Chronicles, the first three books.

[00:49:15] James: I feel like something that I read, where it was like, you’re afraid of the dragons because, because they are dragons, and that is what they do. They make you afraid of them

[00:49:26] Ka-Ce: It could be

[00:49:27] James: With their aura, or something. And maybe it was something else, but I mean, Dragonlance is Like, Dragonlance and this Are the biggest dragon books You know, that I’ve read And, I mean

[00:49:42] Ka-Ce: I do have some more dragon books for you, honey.

[00:49:44] James: I really have You know, I mostly have like vampires And other things.

[00:49:52] Ka-Ce: I do have more dragon books for you, if want go down the dragon route

[00:49:56] James: Um, that’ll be something to look into later and see if that’s a, if [00:50:00] that’s a thing or if I’m just remembering something completely wrong. Um, and then of course I did not catch the first read that the blue dragon was Xaden’s dragon and of course, yeah. Why is she sizing Violet up like, because, is it because Xaden went, hey, I got a snack for you later? (laughing) You know, and, and Sgaeyl was like, all right, cool. Or was it something else? Theories abound.

[00:50:31] Ka-Ce: so many theories and we’re just barely starting this book

[00:50:34] James: I am like, uh, yeah, like re going over all this stuff now. I’m like, was that, but was that Did you, mm, it’s terrible, terrible. I didn’t know what I was getting into when I started this really.

[00:50:53] Ka-Ce: And now you understand my, uh, obsession and going back and forth between everything and writing all these notes.

[00:51:00] James: I was just looking to take a break from Throne of Glass, um, before I got started on the tandem read. And so I was like, I’m going to read something different. And so I went and I was like, Hey, you know what? I bet wife will be amused if I start reading Fourth Wing and she’ll be like, ah, you’re reading my book or whatever.

[00:51:19] And then I was grilling food out on the grill, and I started reading it, and I was like, holy shit, this is, like,

[00:51:30] Ka-Ce: yeah,

[00:51:31] James: And, and yeah.

[00:51:33] Ka-Ce: and now here you are,

[00:51:34] James: And now here I am. And you guys are with us.

[00:51:38] Ka-Ce: Yup,

[00:51:38] James: ….

[00:51:38] Uh, Uh okay. So, yeah, we had some cadets, you know, gave into the fear, some got toasted.

[00:51:50] Uh, violet’s being sized up, much to her not knowing what’s going on. And so then we move on to the next morning. [00:52:00] The riders and the cadets are standing in formation in the courtyard as Captain Fitzgibbons reads from the death roll.

[00:52:05] And we find out that this is something they do every day. Um, right after, uh, right after the death roll. Dain has Sawyer, uh, a repeat cadet, and we find out that that there’s somebody who doesn’t bond at threshing, which we’ll get into later. Um, there are so many things in between these guys and success.

[00:52:34] It’s honestly amazing any of them live. Okay. I’m just going to tell you that right now. The fact that there is a cadet who’s a repeat is such an odd thing to me because it seems like Any failure is just death.

[00:52:50] I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re like, Oh, you didn’t bond with a dragon? Take him out to pasture.

[00:52:56] Ka-Ce: Well, I mean, they still need bodies for infantry, so I mean…

[00:53:00] James: Yeah, but it just, it doesn’t seem like that kind of thing. It just seems like, oh,

[00:53:04] Ka-Ce: That rider mentality, yea

[00:53:05] James: you know, Oh, you failed. Okay. Like… Anyway, um… so, Sawyer’s a repeat cadet who didn’t, he didn’t, uh, bond at threshing the previous year. He shows the first years where to go for their classes because, again, they’re actually in college.

[00:53:24] It’s just war college. Um, on top of trying to stay alive, you have to do homework. Um, Dain meets Violet in private to check in on her. Violet asks him why their squad was moved from second wing to Fourth Wing. And one of the things to remember is that they’ve known each other for a really long time. And I actually don’t remember if we, if we said this in the beginning, but Mira told her to avoid Xaden and to find Dain.

[00:53:56] Um, and so Dain is her [00:54:00] childhood friend. That she hasn’t seen in a year. Um,

[00:54:04] dain confirms that Xaden wants her dead. He moved the squad so he has a direct line to her. He can do whatever he wants and no one will question it. She’s his revenge against her mother. Dain swears he won’t let anything happen to her.

[00:54:20] And this is the first time he steps up and he cups her face, his thumbs stroking over her cheekbone. And, of course, you’re thinking, you know, yeah, they were flirting, she’s had the hots for him, you know, growing up, and, um, it just seems like a very, and, and when you’re thinking, you know, oh, he probably missed her, too, because he was a first year, the previous year, and as we learn later, they can’t send letters, they can’t talk to anybody.

[00:54:46] So he’s missed her, right? He’s being very affectionate. Asshole. Um, He tells her to keep a low profile, warns her that Xaden is ruthless, and why do you think that Sgaeyl chose him? Because apparently she is also a very ruthless dragon.

[00:55:06] Allegedly. No she is.

[00:55:09] Um, Violet is still trying to come to terms with Dain bonding a dragon, having a signet she doesn’t know about, and he’s a squad leader.

[00:55:18] He tells her that he is the same person, she asks him what his signet is, and even though it’s classified, Dain tells her.

[00:55:25] Uh, yeah, good job, Dain, um…

[00:55:29] Ka-Ce: Way to keep it classified

[00:55:31] James: you know, and if you guys are like me, you’re going to read this and then you’re going to like read more of the book and you’re going to just be like, what the actual hell, Violet? What the actual hell? What is wrong with you? But then she’s a young girl. She’s 20.

[00:55:50] Look when I was 20, I did some stupid shit too.

[00:55:54] Okay, you know what I’m saying? So I can’t blame her completely, but girl

[00:55:59] girl [00:56:00] anyway His signet is is that he can read a person’s recent memories He clarifies that he’s not like an intinsic who can read minds He actually has to put his hands on a person to do it. So he’s not a security risk

[00:56:18] (making absurd hand motions)

[00:56:21] He thinks leadership will, yeah, you guys who are just listening to the audio can’t see the

[00:56:26] Ka-Ce: The hand gestures

[00:56:27] James: The gestures

[00:56:28] (laughing) Go watch the YouTube. Uh, he thinks you’d, uh, he thinks leadership will use him in intelligence. Vi thinks to herself that he’ll be one of the most valuable interrogation tools. Yes, yes, he will.

[00:56:44] (Exasperated sigh) If only… (mumbles) dain warns Vi, huh?

[00:56:50] Ka-Ce: Oh just you wait

[00:56:52] James: He’s already Nope, nope, not going there.

[00:56:56] Ka-Ce: You’re an adult, you’re fine..

[00:56:58] James: Dain… dain warns Vi that this place will warp a person. Strip down all the bullshit and niceties revealing a person at their core. There should be a warning. Also warns her that Xaden is still the wing leader and he will be after her, um, but he’ll have to find ways within the Codex to take care of her.

[00:57:20] He mentions Amber Mavis, current wing leader of Third Wing, who is also a stickler for the Codex. Vi has to get to class and realizes that Xaden is watching her through narrowed eyes. His head tilts and he’s studying her. And when you get through the book, um, uh, I don’t, do all copies have the special chapters or?

[00:57:48] Ka-Ce: No. So the paperback has the three special bonus chapters from Xaden’s point of view, but the hardback, um, with the gold cover does not [00:58:00] the, special holiday edition with the red one and the black sleeves. I think I have it up there. Uh, that has two of the bonus chapters from Xaden’s point of view. But

[00:58:12] James: None of them cover this though.

[00:58:14] Ka-Ce: no, and that is so frustrating,

[00:58:17] James: I would, I would actually, yes, I would love to see this point of view from Xaden.

[00:58:23] Ka-Ce: um, Rebecca is a goddess and she does have all three point of view chapters up on her website. So don’t feel like you have to buy like 20 million copies of the books. Rebecca does have all three posted on her website so you can read them.

[00:58:38] James: which we will include those at the end of the Fourth Wing series because

[00:58:46] Ka-Ce: yeah, the book, not the series

[00:58:48] James: not this well I classified as the Empyrean series and and Fourth Wing the book when we reach the end of Fourth Wing We will link to those chapters because when you read things from Xaden’s point of view, there are spoilers for the book.

[00:59:03] Ka-Ce: Yea

[00:59:04] James: Um, and they’re pretty big spoilers, so you definitely do not want to read those first. Before you to, yeah.

[00:59:11] Ka-Ce: Read them at the end (laughs)

[00:59:13] James: Um… Xaden calls Dain and Violet out, childhood friends, first lovers. He’s making fun of them, you know, he’s like, Of course you snuck off alone, like, Are you guys reconnecting? Are you reconnecting?

[00:59:25] You know, and, um, Do they have to be so obvious about it? He starts to make his way down the steps, And Dain tells Vi to run, so she does. Um, which, when I read that, it was kind of odd, because, like, she just takes off and runs, but then nothing happens.

[00:59:45] Ka-Ce: Right, like, so, you get caught

[00:59:48] James: He’s like like run, bitch! And she’s like okay! And then, like

[00:59:54] Ka-Ce: when you, you’re caught up in Violet’s emotions because, you know, everything is told from her point of view. [01:00:00] And so you’re like, oh shit, this guy has it out for her, he wants to kill her because of the history with, you know, her mom and his dad and her brother and everything.

[01:00:10] So you’re very caught up in like, This panic sense, because she’s also like, fuck, I’m the shortest, I’m the weakest in this quadrant. And it is, you know, kill or be killed in this quadrant. So she’s just on guard this whole time. And it’s like her first day, you know, her first official day as a cadet. So I get that, like, she’s like, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck.

[01:00:31] Dain says to go. I’m going. But then you read it again. And it’s like, all Xaden was doing was coming down the stairs.

[01:00:39] James: Right? And honestly, she would not have been able to outrun him anyway. Like, the dude has got like, what, a foot and a half on her in height

[01:00:49] Ka-Ce: He’s like, 6’4″ or taller, and she’s like, 5’2″

[01:00:54] James: he had to, all he had to do was take four giant steps and he would have caught her.

[01:00:59] Ka-Ce: Yea

[01:00:59] James: Like, (laughing)

[01:01:02] it’s just, yeah, like, I understand because she is, she’s, and actually she does address this later. And that’s one of the things I really like about Violet’s character is she gets to a point and then she just says what’s on her mind.

[01:01:15] No filter, like, oh, I mean, most, most of the time. But she addresses this later, about she’s just she’s so pumped on adrenaline whenever she sees him because she’s like is it now is it now what’s he gonna do is it is it is it and she’s like hyped up I mean that’s a lot of stress for you know

[01:01:44] Ka-Ce: And you can only be hyped up on adrenaline and stress for so long before you’re just like, fuck it, like, your body has to come off of that at some point.

[01:01:53] James: yeah exactly

[01:01:55] Um, so, you know a good

[01:01:58] (James gathering thoughts)

[01:01:59] So [01:02:00] immediately, right? And this is a, I took issue with this, right?

[01:02:03] Dain comes out and he’s being like, you know, we’re friends. I’m here to help you bandage up your thing. He’s really, you know, kind of a, um, a pissant to, um, to Rhi in the beginning too. He’s like, she’s like, who are you? And he’s like, I’m the frigging leader.

[01:02:19] And she, and he’s like, and who are you? And she’s like, well, I’m her friend. And he’s like, you know, and, Like, he gets all uppity about it, right? And so you’re like, okay, he’s very protective of her.

[01:02:29] But then immediately he tells her, Yeah, my signet is classified, but I’ll tell you what it is. I can read memories.

[01:02:41] And then immediately he touches her face after he tells her that he has to touch a person to do it.

[01:02:48] Um… So either this is something that they have done Or he’s done to her throughout their life and she is not, um, put off by him touching her because it is a common thing that, that, yeah, like, is this something just growing up?

[01:03:07] He would come up and be like, you know, touch, touch. And

[01:03:10] Ka-Ce: I mean if you’re friends, and you’ve been friends since you were like 5 and 6

[01:03:14] James: especially if there’s a maybe sort of romantic interest in there, you know? And as we learn later, the whole thing about the signets and, you know, The way they come about, you know, the, the, how they manifest that kind of, so it kind of makes sense that she wouldn’t be, it still irritates me, but it kind of makes sense that she wouldn’t be immediately put off by that if it was something that she was used to.

[01:03:42] Ka-Ce: Yea

[01:03:42] James: With him because if it was something that he just did but see she hasn’t seen him for a year

[01:03:48] so is this uh, you know, is this a not a romantic gesture like an endearment like I haven’t seen you in a year How are you like

[01:03:57] Ka-Ce: Mmmhmm

[01:03:58] James: touch your face kind of thing and you’d be like, oh [01:04:00] like

[01:04:00] I don’t know You can read it so many different ways about why she wouldn’t be bothered by it But at the same time it’d be like you just told me what your power was

[01:04:09] Ka-Ce: And you touched me

[01:04:10] James: Why are you touching me?

[01:04:12] But she has no reason to not trust him.

[01:04:15] So it’s like… … …

[01:04:18] Ka-Ce: I think we are very distrustful people and just the kind of stories that we read, that we would always be like, the fuck girl? Like Celaena in Throne of Glass, like why didn’t you sniff the wine before you drank it after all the testing that you’ve done you know?

[01:04:32] James: Well, it.. Right, exactly. Right. Uh, just, and is that, is that, um, is that reader’s privilege? Because we know so much more of the context of what’s happening and the character doesn’t, um, I also, though, am one of those people that I, other than like a very few select people, I don’t like people touching my face, um, so I immediately, if somebody was reaching out for my face, I would be like,

[01:05:00] what what you doing?

[01:05:03] Ka-Ce: Er, Right?

[01:05:03] James: Ya know, but again, if they grew up together, term of endearment, uh, you know, it’s

[01:05:10] Ka-Ce: Yeah

[01:05:11] James: hard to say.

[01:05:13] Ka-Ce: Yea… I feel like this also gets glossed over a little bit, at least right now, uh, but Dain tells Violet that his red dragon, Cath, channels a pretty significant amount of magic compared to some of the other dragons. And, you know, he, he’s nowhere near adept. At his powers yet, you know, he’s a second year. So he’s still developing. He’s still working with it But how much power is normally channeled to riders?

[01:05:45] I would like to know And it is something that we will have to discuss later in the other two books, but Is, like, is he showing off? Like, yeah, I [01:06:00] get a lot of magic from my dragon. Or, you know, he already was like, yeah, my, my signet is classified, but here’s, I’m gonna tell you what it is, cause I trust you.

[01:06:10] Like,

[01:06:11] James: Like making her feel special, kind of, uh, like, I won’t tell anybody else this. But you? Cause I like you.

[01:06:23] Ka-Ce: Yeah. Um. And another thing that I would like to, come around and talk about again, um, when we do our Iron Flame coverage, is when, Violet is thinking to herself after Dain tells her about his signet, is that he will be one of the most valuable interrogation tools. Um, I didn’t catch this on my first read, and now with just Everything I’m re-reading and everything, I feel like I’m like just screaming and I need to talk about it with somebody.

[01:06:56] But um, it makes sense that leadership would use him like that in interrogation and in intelligence. Um,

[01:07:08] James: Yeah, it is hard to talk about this without doing spoiler, spoilery stuff. Because as I’m rereading this, I’m, my thought

[01:07:19] Ka-Ce: You’re starting to question things

[01:07:20] James: I’m like, when did it start? Like, has he been, maybe even unknown to himself? Like, a tool this whole time? Did they start interrogating her immediately? Like, literally from this spot? You know, because she’s a Sorrengail?

[01:07:40] Like, And I know that I will find out more as I get along, but as I’m, yeah, going through this again, I’m just like, damn, when, when did this, and am I mad at the right people? Like,

[01:07:56] Ka-Ce: Rebecca is, Rebecca is such a genius because you’re, [01:08:00] you’re reading this for the first time and it’s like, Oh, that makes sense. And Oh, that in that. And you’re not. Thinking second thoughts about any of this. You’re just like, Oh, okay. Like I’m learning about my best friend’s signet, and I am learning about this and this person wants to kill me.

[01:08:15] And then you read it again and you’re just, you’re seeing everything. Like every little sentence is like, Oh my God. Another sentence. Oh my God. Like, it was all laid out right there. You just had to get through the story first and then,

[01:08:33] James: Yeah,

[01:08:34] Ka-Ce: And maybe I’m just reading way too much into it because I’m obsessed with this series,

[01:08:39] James: Well, I mean, but you’ve read all three and so you know things that I don’t know but I’m already, even just with the little bit I’m in Iron Flame I’m, like, already questioning relationships between people and end games and who’s in league with who just ah, there’s so much happening here that lol I have ideas and I’m like, I don’t want to be wrong about this.

[01:09:01] And

[01:09:03] Ka-Ce: Alright, this is a safe space, so we will talk about all, all things and, and

[01:09:09] James: we will do a, like a full coverage after and just be like, this was what I thought initially. And then I was wrong or I was right. Or like, but that’s gonna, that’s gonna come

[01:09:21] Ka-Ce: later

[01:09:21] James: later, much later. Um, yeah.

[01:09:26] Ka-Ce: So I know we discussed briefly, um, how we perceived Xaden walking down the steps to Violet and Dain. And the first read, you’re like, pumped up with Violet’s adrenaline, like, oh shit, he’s coming after me. I got a run. Versus…. (shrugs) he didn’t actually make any threats. He’s, was calling them out. Yeah. was calling them out.

[01:09:50] Like, can you, are you, can you guys be any more fucking obvious? He starts walking down the steps. I took it as he’s leadership. He’s a wing [01:10:00] leader. He outranks Dain. Was he coming down to reprimand them, not threaten them, and is it all

[01:10:10] James: Are ya’ll bonin’ behind the pillar? Cuz if you are you need to stop.

[01:10:15] Ka-Ce: Like, Jack Barlowe has done more threatening in the first, you know, couple chapters with I’m gonna fucking kill you, you’re weak, let me kill you before the dragons kill you, than Xaden has.

[01:10:29] James: Jack Barlowe has been on scene, for like, a day and a half, and he’s already killed like

[01:10:37] Ka-Ce: Yeah

[01:10:38] James: a handful of people Probably like he’s a menace and And she looks at him and she’s like jack Barlowe I’m gonna have to deal with that and then she looks at Xaden and she’s like I gots to get outta here

[01:10:53] (Ka-Ce clearly baffled)

[01:10:54] Ka-Ce: Right? Girl, like you are brilliant, but, hmm. All right. We are moving on before I say too much more and ruin this for everybody.

[01:11:08] James: I know it is it is hard to just Doing a spoiler free Deep Dive is difficult,

[01:11:17] Ka-Ce: It really is

[01:11:18] James: Cuz you really want to just like talk about all

[01:11:21] Ka-Ce: Everything

[01:11:22] James: things and everything, especially when you’ve already read through the book and you’re just like, I thought this, but it was actually this.

[01:11:28] Ka-Ce: MMhmm, yup.

[01:11:31] Alright, moving into chapter 5. Professor Devera welcomes everyone to Battle Brief, the one class that everyone, no matter the year, attends together. It’s the only class they have every day, because they need to be kept up to date on current events. And it’s the only class that will matter if they are called into service early, which, We will see happens with some of the third years.

[01:11:54] Her gaze sweeps across the classroom and lands on Violet and her eyes widen slightly, but then [01:12:00] gives Violet an approving smile and nod before continuing. Professor Markham, from the Scribe Quadrant, also teaches this class. Devera whispers to him and his eyes fly over to find Violet. Whereas Devera’s gaze was approving, Markham’s is disappointment.

[01:12:16] Violet was supposed to be his prize student before he retires. Devera and Markham inform everyone about the attack on a village in Chakir by gryphon riders and have the First Years ask them questions about the attack. It’s also the first time Violet learns that the wards around the village area faltered. Violet, trying to keep a low profile like Dain told her to, tells Rhiannon to ask a question. What altitude is the village at? Devera realizes that it’s really Violet’s question and singles her out, making her ask more lead up following questions.

[01:12:56] James: Can we, can, Dain and Chaol are like the same person because they’re, they’re both telling them

[01:13:05] Ka-Ce: To lay low?

[01:13:05] James: Lay low, middle of the pack, don’t draw attention to yourself. You are average at best. And both of the, both of the girls are like, but I’m better than everybody.

[01:13:20] Ka-Ce: That is such a, like, on the nose yes.

[01:13:25] James: Just, you know.

[01:13:27] Ka-Ce: Yeah,

[01:13:27] James: But for the record, I like Chaol better. Uh,

[01:13:32] Ka-Ce: Poor Dain.

[01:13:33] James: I know. I’m hoping for a redemption arc. Without you saying anything. You’ll know when you get there.

[01:13:42] Ka-Ce: Scribe training for the win. Violet points out it’s really high for a Gryphon attack unless they knew the wards would fail. With Devera’s encouragement, Violet works out the issue, despite Jack being an ass and making fun of her. Violet concludes that the backup dragon riders knew that the wards were failing and [01:14:00] were already on their way before anyone could light the, you know, warning rescue beacons.

[01:14:05] Otherwise, it would have taken a lot longer for the riders to get there to defend the village. Devera confirms that Violet is right. One of the dragons sensed the failing wards and warned the riders. Jack is humbled, but not really. It makes him more pissed off at Violet, because bully mentality. The second and third years

[01:14:27] James: He has a boner for murder.

[01:14:30] Ka-Ce: Yeah, yeah he does. The second and third years take over, asking more detailed questions. Then, Xaden’s deep voice asked what the condition of the village was. He further clarifies, they wouldn’t demolish the village if they were trying to establish a foothold. So the condition of the village matters when trying to determine a motive for attack.

[01:14:54] It’s concluded that the Gryphon Riders were looking for something, but not riches, and it’s not a gem mining district, so Xaden further questions, what do we have that they want so badly? Devera tells the class that these are the right kind of questions to ask, and that’s what makes Xaden a good wing leader, but also says they don’t know what the Riders were looking for.

[01:15:17] After lunch, the cadets are all gathered at the sparring mats for assessment. Aurelie and Ridoc circle each other, Ridoc taking it easy on her. Uh, we will come to learn more about some of these squad members of Violet’s, but I absolutely love Ridoc. Uh, so Ridoc starts to go harder, you know, full on punches and kicks and everything.

[01:15:38] Rhiannon and Sawyer offer to help Violet with hand to hand combat if she helps them with history, because it’s Scribe Training? History? Yes. Hand to hand with her? No. Several mats down, Jack Barlowe kills a guy that’s smaller than him. Professor Emetterio shouts at Jack there’s to be no weapons and no killing at assessment.

[01:15:59] [01:16:00] Jack argues that he didn’t know the guy was going to be so weak. Emetterio tells everyone that they don’t have to get used to the killing, but they do have to function through it. And it turns out that Rhiannon is great on the mat. So far, everyone that has been paired up has been one year to one year.

[01:16:19] Like Aurelii and Ridoc. Um, but for some reason, Emetterio pairs Violet with Imogen, who is a second year in her squad. And it turns out, Imogen is one of the marked ones. One of those with the Rebellon… Rebellion Relics. Imogen is fast, and Dain calls out that she can’t use her signet powers. Violet feels something slide against her ribs, and realizes that Imogen tried to stab her with a dagger.

[01:16:46] Imogen quickly sheathes as Emeterio yells at her about the weapon, but she is surprised. Mira’s vest saved her sister. Imogen manages to slam Violet down on the mat, her right arm behind her, and wrenches Violet’s shoulder apart and breaks her arm. So, every chapter is just action.

[01:17:07] James: Yeah, and, you know, this is another reason why I really question, um, Lilith’s, uh, thought process. She had to know that putting Violet in this section in the Rider’s Quadrant was going to make her a target of all of the people that feel wronged by her. her being her mother. Why on earth would she send her weak, um, you know, breakable daughter into a situation like that, where there are literally dozens of these, um, you know, rebellion, um, you know, [01:18:00] um, relic carrying cadets who would want nothing more than to “accidentally”, just like what Jack Barlowe did. He accidentally, you know, he said, Oh, I didn’t know his neck was that weak. Like, bro, you just wanted to kill somebody. Because that’s Jack Barlowe’s thing. He just likes to kill people.

[01:18:21] Um, And, I mean, Imogen was going for it. You know, Violet would have died right there if, if Mira hadn’t, um, saved her ass with the dragon scales.

[01:18:32] Um, so what was the thought process with her mom?

[01:18:36] Ka-Ce: Yeah,

[01:18:37] James: the odds seem so stacked against Violet.

[01:18:41] Ka-Ce: I would think, (laughs) as parents, as you know, the father is a scribe. The mother is a general in the Rider’s quadrant, and you have a daughter that is physically weaker and has these ailments and stuff. Why not? Like, okay, fine, you, you think she’d be better as a scribe, but why not still train her, develop her muscles, give her at least like, um, self defense classes or something,

[01:19:11] James: Something

[01:19:11] Ka-Ce: you know? Um, why spring it six months before conscription day? Like, that’s not enough time to fully train. Like, this is a great beginner course. Good luck. Um, but then, then we wouldn’t have the drama of, you know, the first book and almost dying on parapet. But.

[01:19:35] James: But you still, you sit there and you’re like, like, legitimately, was this woman trying to, like, glean her own family and get rid of the weaker, you know? But then why would she do that? I mean, her son already died. Um, and her husband died. So, what, it’s gonna be Lilith and Mira? I just, I, [01:20:00] why would you send somebody so unprepared into, basically, the Viper’s Den?

[01:20:07] Where now, it’s not just, you know, accidents can kill you, but there are people actively looking at her going, I’m gonna kill her first if the person over there doesn’t do it first. Like,

[01:20:19] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:20:19] James: you know, it just seems like a very poorly thought out, um, And it doesn’t seem like a mistake. Her mom has to know how things are inside of the college, you know

[01:20:31] Ka-Ce: Well, of course. I mean, her mom had to go through all of this to become a rider.

[01:20:35] James: Yeah, exactly. It just, uh, I don’t know. It doesn’t make any sense to me. Like, the odds just are not in her favor.

[01:20:42] Ka-Ce: it doesn’t make any sense right now.

[01:20:44] James: (laughs) I kind of figured

[01:20:49] Ka-Ce: so I want to bring up why nobody in the fandom has brought up Professor Devera before, or at least I haven’t seen. She seems surprised to see Violet there. And granted, Markham also is surprised to see Violet in the Rider’s Quadrant when she had been training with him to become a scribe and to become, like, his successor sort of thing, you know?

[01:21:13] And granted, most professors are surprised to see Violet there in the Rider’s Quadrant. But it’s noted that Devera quickly gives her an approving smile and a nod, like she approves Violet being in the Rider’s Quadrant. Is there history between Devera and the Sorrengail family? Is there something more? Um, I will say I do want to cover this in Iron Flame, but I noticed this on my first read, that she caught eyes with Violet and smiled, like, in approval. Why? But we don’t get a why. It just…

[01:21:56] James: I also find it weird that the, um, [01:22:00] that the professors wouldn’t already know Who to expect. Um,

[01:22:07] Ka-Ce: well, If

[01:22:08] James: if, if Violet was meant to be a scribe,

[01:22:11] Ka-Ce: hmmm

[01:22:11] James: But then she spent the last six months training, bootcamping, whatever. Don’t you think that the scribe quadrant would be like, Oh yeah, like Violet’s name hasn’t appeared on any of the, you know, applications or anything.

[01:22:27] And then he would be like, well, she’s my star pupil. Where the hell is she?

[01:22:32] Ka-Ce: I think they take a, a test in order to enter into Basgiath College, no matter what quadrant. So there’s like an overall test, um, and I think there’s, um, a physical test maybe for the riders or something, cause Violet does briefly talk about that in first chapter. But it isn’t until conscription day that you have to go to your specified quadrant and then you do the roll call sign your name.

[01:22:58] Um, so, Violet, when she checked in to the Rider’s Quadrant, you know, had to give them her name. She climbed up to the turret, had to give them her name again.

[01:23:07] the parapet, had give their name again because, you know, riders die along the way. Or cadets die along the way.

[01:23:12] James: So as far as anyone’s concerned, she just didn’t show up to

[01:23:16] Ka-Ce: The scribes.

[01:23:17] James: the scribe section, and they’re just like, Where the hell’d she go? And then seeing her in the Rider’s Cause he would be like, oh, she just decided maybe to not apply this year or something. then to see her in the Rider’s quadrant, it’s like, Oh.

[01:23:35] You didn’t show up because you’re over here. Okay. That makes sense. Like, I, okay. I get that.

[01:23:43] Ka-Ce: Yeah. Uh, Jack brings up General Melgren, um, how he knows the outcome of a battle before it happens, but even he doesn’t know when it’ll happen. And then further taunts Violet, um, you know, during the back and forth with [01:24:00] Violet reasoning out the Gryphon attack. I’m not the one who thinks precognition is a thing.

[01:24:07] So, I didn’t, I didn’t catch onto this my first read, but then later, you know, we, once people start bonding dragons, we learn more about the signets, um, and we know that Melgren’s signet is, he knows the outcome of a battle before it happens, we just, he doesn’t know when it’ll happen. So I’m guessing that Jack is talking about Precognition is not a signet, or at least, if it is, nobody has ever heard of it or know of it.

[01:24:38] James: I also don’t understand how that works. How do you know the outcome of a battle, if you don’t know, if you don’t know when a battle is going to happen, then how do you know what the outcome is going to be? If you don’t know that that battle is going to happen, like,

[01:24:56] Ka-Ce: I mean, this is Jack Barlowe talking, so take whatever he says with a grain of salt.

[01:25:04] James: Yeah, but I mean, but that’s still, I mean, Melgren, no, I guess that does make sense actually as I read further into it because when he looks at a person he can kind of see no, they really are actually now that I’m like, wait, if he sees the outcome of about I’ll see. Ah, this is Because this isn’t until the end of Fourth Wing. Ah, okay.

[01:25:40] Ka-Ce: Okay, mark this down, cuz we will talk about Melgren again later

[01:25:44] James: I feel like he’s lying about his power a little bit.

[01:25:48] Ka-Ce: I mean, he’s a general. He could be.

[01:25:50] James: Like, like

[01:25:51] Like, he does, like, he can do what he says,[01:26:00]

[01:26:00] But it’s not the full truth of Of what he, what he’s saying. Yeah, there’s something. Okay. Anyway,

[01:26:14] Ka-Ce: right. My last point for this chapter, unless you have any more, um, I feel like Xaden was asking the right questions. Um, you know, he is wing leader for a reason. He, he, um, his father is well known for being a, you know, with the strategies and everything. Um, but was he also asking leading questions to the professors? Was he trying to get them to reveal something or was he just asking the right questions for somebody of his rank?

[01:26:51] James: on my initial read through, I just figured he was good at his job because he’s wing leader for a reason. Now, my thought, no, this, I’m not actually questioning this. I actually pretty much figure I know the answer to, but I can’t say it because I don’t want to ruin it. Um, but yes, I mean, we, we,

[01:27:18] We get this sort of situation again later with leading questions trying to get people to slip up and, and they don’t.

[01:27:35] Ka-Ce: Yea

[01:27:35] James: Um, but it doesn’t matter if they don’t because the, the answer is, you know what I mean? Like he asks the question and then the other, the other person. Um,

[01:27:46] Ya know, it’s like, haha, and they ask a question, and like, the answer is in the question, and it’s like, both of them know that the other one knows, but neither one can do anything about it.

[01:27:57] Ka-Ce: Yea

[01:27:57] James: And, so, [01:28:00] yeah. You, you definitely have more of an understanding of why he’s asking these questions when you get up to Iron Flame. Um, cause, I mean, things have happened. Haha. And you understand why these things are happening and yeah, it’s all, yeah, it’s a whole thing. But I also think it is because he is a good wing leader, like he has to be, I mean, he’s got a lot to prove

[01:28:33] being, you know, the son of a rebel and, and, um, Yeah, so, um, okay. So chapter six, Dain carries Vi to the healer’s quad so she can be healed because, of course, Imogen broke her arm. Healers don’t have magic.

[01:28:54] They have to heal things the traditional way, like we do. But some riders have a rare signet and they can mend. Vi is given a pain relief tonic and as Nolan is being fetched, Dain pleads with Violet about getting into the scribe’s quadrant.

[01:29:15] He hasn’t let it go and it’s only been a day. To be fair, it’s only been a day and her arm is already broken.

[01:29:23] Ka-Ce: I guess. But she didn’t tap out. So, I mean.

[01:29:28] James: She’s stubborn.

[01:29:30] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:29:30] James: I mean, and you gotta give her credit for that. She’s like, I may be small and my bones may be brittle and I may be not the strongest one here, but I will not.

[01:29:42] Ka-Ce: I will not tap out

[01:29:44] James: Nolan comes in and glares at Dain since this happened on Dain’s watch. Nolan doesn’t agree that the separatist’s kids were conscripted into the rider’s quadrant as punishment for their [01:30:00] parents doing, rider’s quadrant never forced conscripts before.

[01:30:05] Ka-Ce: MmHmm. The rider’s quadrant is volunteer.

[01:30:11] James: No, I know, and now I’m trying to think of why it changed, because

[01:30:19] Ka-Ce: Oh the gears are turning some more,

[01:30:21] James: oh man, there’s so So much stuff to think about now see see listeners. This is what happens when When you do these things and you haven’t actually read through the entirety of the series I am only a little bit farther along than some of you maybe actually probably I’m behind most of you

[01:30:41] so a lot of these questions are legitimate questions where I have no idea Dain still tries to argue. No mending, no magic. If they let her heal naturally, it’ll be a good way for her to get into the Scribe Squad. Vi fights and tells Nolan to mend her, and Nolan promises that he will always mend her. Vi tells Nolan just this once, she can’t always be mended, it will make her look weak.

[01:31:15] Dain will not let it go, and Nolan tells him to head back. Basically, bro, you’re being annoying. Um, if it had been any other first year, he would have been gone already. It’s just because they’re friends. And that’s another thing, special treatment is not going to do her any favors. Vi finds her way back to the barracks later that night when everyone is getting ready for bed.

[01:31:39] Rhi, Rhi, sorry. Rhi promises to help her get ready for the on mat challenges happening in two weeks. And then Vi finds a journal and a letter from Mira under her pillow. The journal was written by Brennan and given to Mira before she entered the Rider’s Quadrant, the Book of Brennan. Vi tells Rhi that he [01:32:00] died years ago.

[01:32:01] Rhi is, shit, Rhi, Rhi, V, Vi, Rhi is sympathetic and tells her that they don’t always burn everything of a loved one either. Couple of rebels going on in here, man. Telling you. As Rhi starts studying history, Vi starts reading the journal. Uh, Brennan points out if you know where to look and you can get out without being seen, you’ll know who you’re fighting so you can prepare, uh, as a tip for hand to hand combat.

[01:32:41] Any cadet can request a challenge, but the instructors decide challenges a week before. Instructors assign matches based on weeding out the weakest. They just don’t advertise this as a fact, but, I mean, that makes sense. A plan starts to form. If she knows who she’s fighting, then she can start planning, beforehand, and she is one of the people who knows the grounds of Basgiath the best. Mm

[01:33:11] Ka-Ce: it was pointed out, um, on one of the threads, theories, things that I read about Fourth Wing that Dain isn’t coming from a bad place. He truly cares for Violet, you know, that is his friend since childhood. You know, their parents were always stationed together, moving around, um, but he is used to seeing her as weaker, as needing protection, and is constantly being like, you can’t do this, you can’t do that, because you’ll get hurt, because you’ll, you know, pop a ligament out, you’ll, you know, distort your knee, whatever, um, instead of being that friend that steps back and is like, you know your body, you know what you need [01:34:00] to do in order to grow and, you know, do different things.

[01:34:05] So, I will admit, my first read of Dain, I hated him. It kind of like Chaol, I kept getting annoyed with Dain. Like, I kept getting annoyed with Chaol. Like, dude, back the fuck off. But, you know, when you think about it as, yes, they grew up together, they were friends, he’s used to watching out for her, and being the big protector, and like, the big brother, you know, sort of thing.

[01:34:34] It’s like, he isn’t the bad guy. He does want just.. what’s best for her, and he’s already been through the Rider’s Quadrant first year. He has seen some things. He has done some shit. He doesn’t want that for her. And, and, you know, it’s already day one. He’s already had to bring her to the Healer’s Quadrant. He does not know how she is going to survive, and he does not want to see his best friend killed. So it, it is a hard place for Dain, you know.

[01:35:10] James: yeah, and, and it, it is an interesting point when you think about that they grew up together. So how many times were they playing together as children? Mm And she fell and dislocated something or broke something or, and yeah, he grew up with that and that was the girl, you know, that she was the girl who, who broke, you know, when, and so he would be protective.

[01:35:36] And when you look at it from that point of view, it is very hard to be mad at him for being so protective, um,

[01:35:44] Ka-Ce: At the same time.

[01:35:45] James: To a certain degree, which we’ll get into.

[01:35:48] Ka-Ce: (laughs) Yes

[01:35:49] James: Um, and no, I, I am. My first read through of this was like, at first I was like, yeah, he’s good, caring friend, da da da. And then I was like, okay, dude, you’re getting [01:36:00] like annoying.

[01:36:00] And then it was like, bro, you, mmm, how could you, mmmm but then, um, now as I’m getting farther along and seeing

[01:36:10] Ka-Ce: things

[01:36:10] James: More of the politics behind the scenes, um, I’m like, is now I’m now I’m not even sure that he’s even like.

[01:36:22] Ka-Ce: What you think he is

[01:36:23] James: What I think he is, I mean, I kind of feel like he’s also just a pawn in, yeah, I can’t say too much about any of that.

[01:36:33] You know, but no, I’m rethinking what I thought was, what I thought was intentional, uh, what do I want to say, like intentional, um, malfeasance. I am now questioning the process behind it. And that’s all I’m gonna say.

[01:37:02] Ka-Ce: Okay.

[01:37:03] James: I don’t know if that was too general and you’re just like, What the hell are you talking about?

[01:37:07] Ka-Ce: I got you. Maybe our, maybe our viewers don’t but that’s okay.

[01:37:11] James: No, I know you know uh, you probably figured it out.

[01:37:13] (laughs again. Stupid subtitles)

[01:37:14] There is a lot to dissect and honestly, when you read it and then yeah, you come back to it and you’re just like, Oh, even if you just read the first book and then came back and read the first book again, you’d be like, Oh,

[01:37:33] Because you do, you forget things from the beginning of the book to the end of the book

[01:37:37] Ka-Ce: Yea

[01:37:37] James: There’s lot of details.

[01:37:39] Ka-Ce: there’s a lot of details, and some things that you didn’t think were important or whatever, get lost along the way or whatever, and then things get revealed at the end, so yea, it’s almost it’s like you have to read the book, read the point of view chapters, and read it again to pick up on just all the little [01:38:00] things.

[01:38:00] James: Yea, it is, It’s definitely a read once and dissect second. Like,

[01:38:06] Ka-Ce: Yea, yea

[01:38:07] James: then it just gets worse when you start going into the next one in Iron Flame, because then you’re like, I mean, like I said, I’m only a quarter of the way through it.

[01:38:15] uh, but I’m like, oh, ooh. But that means, Huh? Huh?

[01:38:24] Ka-Ce: Ooooh, wait until you get into Onyx Storm. I can’t wait.

[01:38:28] James: Yea, it’s um, it’s an unveiling, it’s like what Shrek, it’s like what Shrek says, onions with layers. Um, so yeah, so this is actually turned out to be very enjoyable, um, I am, I am liking this story quite a bit, and I really didn’t think I was going to. Um, I didn’t think it was going to be quite up my alley, but it is. It’s good story. It’s good, fun storytelling. Um, yeah. And I’m just, I’m enjoying it. So.

[01:39:10] Ka-Ce: I’m so happy that you are enjoying this and you’re enjoying the Empyrean series. Um, cause this is just one of my favorite series right now. Completely obsessed. I was a little mad because you watched that spoiler, uh, summary cartoon thing on Fourth Wing on YouTube. And I was just sitting there going, oh my god, they’re oversimplifying everything.

[01:39:33] And you were just, like, next to me and you were just laughing going, what the fuck, what the fuck, what the

[01:39:37] James: That cartoon is one of the things that got me to actually finally read it. After watching that, I was like.

[01:39:44] Ka-Ce: But it spoiled the story, like it gave you all the like

[01:39:48] James: You know what, it gave a little bit of things here and there, but because you watched a little cartoon and you’re like, Oh, okay. [01:40:00] Ha ha. And then you read it and you’re like, that is not what happened. Yeah,

[01:40:05] Ka-Ce: The emotional impact is bigger in the book than the little summary cartoon, but you are not allowed to watch any other summary cartoons for the other two books.

[01:40:17] James: I am actively avoiding. And I want to watch them because the little one I watched was hilarious. Um, but yeah, I don’t want to spoil anything else now. Cause I’m, I want to see if my theories or ideas are correct and about who is involved in what and who’s helping who, and who’s just,

[01:40:41] Ka-Ce: Yeah.

[01:40:41] James: I know that it goes so much deeper than even what I’ve seen so far.

[01:40:48] And I know that there’s discontent, and I know that there’s, you know, inner workings, and just, you know, all kinds of things. So, I’m looking forward to, uh, seeing what’s gonna happen. So, on that note, That brings us to the end of this one, uh, chapters one through six. We hope you guys enjoyed this, uh, deep dive discussion.

[01:41:21] If you’re reading it, then keep reading because things are going to start to make, sort of, make sense. Uh, next Thursday we will be reviewing chapters seven through twelve of Fourth Wing. On Tuesday, we will be exploring chapters 1 through 7 of Crown of Midnight of the Throne of Glass series. We’re not going to leave you guys hanging on that series.

[01:41:47] We didn’t switch in the middle. We are still going to go all the way through Throne of Glass. Um, it’s one of the things I’ve got to do is get through our, uh, I’ve already [01:42:00] forgot the title of the book. No, the one I’m reading right now.

[01:42:06] Ka-Ce: Oh, Iron Flame.

[01:42:07] James: Iron Flame.

[01:42:09] Ka-Ce: You have to get through Iron Flame and Onyx Storm

[01:42:11] James: Once I get through Iron Flame and Onyx Storm, I will be moving back to the Tandem Read for Tower of Dawn and, um, Empire of Storm. See, there’s too many things. Onyx Storm, Empire Storm, Air of Fire, Squad of Fire

[01:42:28] Ka-Ce: Squad of Fire (laughs), you mean Flame Section

[01:42:31] James: yeah, I know that’s what I’m saying. Too many of these things are too, too similar. So trying to keep the book title straight.

[01:42:37] Um, and yes, and then of course we’ll be doing, uh, the In-Betweens just here and there as we see fit. So thank you again to all the listeners for joining us this week. We hope you, uh, enjoyed it. We hope you were able to have some fun, get some entertainment and just to, you know, Maybe we shed some light on something you were questioning.

[01:43:05] Maybe we’re making you question something you didn’t even consider. As long as it’s not your life, it’s fine. But let us…

[01:43:15] Ka-Ce: keep notes on this book.

[01:43:16] James: Yeah, let us know your thoughts, your theories, uh, your ideas. You know, if there’s something you think that we missed, glossed over, let us know. Um, like I said, we are trying to keep this as spoiler free as possible, but you know, if you’ve got theories about the rest of the book, um, you can send them to us.

[01:43:40] We might not discuss it on here, um, but we’ll discuss it somewhere.

[01:43:46] Ka-Ce: And we will be sharing on social media his reactions, uh, as he’s reading Iron Flame and Onyx Storm.

[01:43:53] James: And a lot of those things are actually do have spoilers in them because I’m actively reading the book, so, [01:44:00] um, take that as you will. If you’re trying to avoid spoilers Be careful about which things you watch as I make my way through the books.

[01:44:11] Ka-Ce: To be fair, Iron Flame has been out for a couple years, er, Fourth Wing. And, well, and Iron Flame, it came out last year. So, we will try to keep it as spoiler free on the podcast, but the books have been out for a while. So, there are spoilers on the internet. But, hopefully this will be somewhat of a safe space for you if you haven’t read it.

[01:44:36] James: See but there’s a whole new cropping of book husbands and book boyfriends who are on the same journey as I am.

[01:44:42] Ka-Ce: That is true.

[01:44:45] James: I see you. I hear you.

[01:44:49] Ka-Ce: Please remember to like, subscribe, and comment. Your ratings and likes really do mean so much to us. And if you like what you hear so far, please share with your friends and family. You can also check us out on TikTok, threads, and Instagram. As we head out, please don’t forget to give some love to our friends over at K911 ResQ.

[01:45:09] That is K 9 1 1 R E S Q. They have been working so hard and so much to, you know, save as many animals as they can and to share animals at different, um, res uh, shelters and, you know, Pasadena Humane Society, who’s been working around the clock trying to save as many animals from the LA fires, treating, rescuing, trying to reunite them with their, with their parents.

[01:45:38] Um, so we will continue to share both of their links in our show notes. Um, if you can try to visit them, try to donate, try to, you know, just at least spread the word about the awesome work that these two organizations have been doing.

[01:45:55] James: Sounds good. So, um, stay tuned [01:46:00] and Check back in next week.

[01:46:04] Ka-Ce: All right. Bye, cadets. Happy reading.

[01:46:06] James: See ya later.

[01:46:08] The hell is my mouse at? Oh, there it is.